Do you use nitrogen?

[The_Russian]

I've heard that too, I've also heard the the effusion rate has nothing to do with molecule size, but molecule velocity in a gas (lighter molecule, higher velocity, pressure being equal), and also that it has to do not with velocity, but how the gas interacts wth the membrane. I'm not sure whath e real answer is, but everyone seems to agree that nitrogen will escape more slowly. I haven't, however seen any real hard data on how much more slowly it escapes than air. remember, air is already mostly nitrogen (78%, I think, off the top of my head) so what is the real difference?

You are a straight-up jerk. You first post included how you knew NOTHING about why nitrogen was used in aircraft tires. I used generalities to explain why it is used because you couldn't. Your post is the same BS you just learned from everyone else. What an idiot. You are just mad because a GIA pilot knows more than you do! And I know that bothers you.

 

[The_Russian]

Yeah, nice post, except for the fact that the majority of it is fantasy.

Whats wrong with Layman's terms?

Uhhh, right, Nitrogen turns to liquid (not *freezes*, turns liquid) at -195.8C, air at -194.3C How often to you encounter temperatures like this? Not often, I’m thinking.

You looked that one up for this didn't you? It takes a lot to bust my balls, huh?

Uhhhh, noooooo. The pressure of Nitrogen varies with temperature, just like any gas.

Hello? Did I not say that? It takes large temperature changes to change the state of the gas.

It is still subject to PV=nRT. In fact, the pressure of nitrogen varies *more* than the pressure of Oxygen. If you took two tires and filled one with nitrogen and one with oxygen to150 psi at standard temp (15C/59F) the nitrogen filled one would be 121 psi at -40 and 164 at 110F while the oxygen filled one would be 119 psi at -40 and 161 psi at 110F. While the difference is slight, (43 psi vs 42 psi) the pressure of Nitrogen actually varies *more* with temp, not less. The difference between nitrogen aid air would be even less as air is mostly nitrogen.

More Wikipedia BS you really didn't know.

Ahhh, finally, you got *something* right.

Uhhhh, it was ALL right.

They are also "designed" to resist the permeation of oxygen, and any other gas.

For any other gas to get near the carcass of the tire, it would have to be trying to enter the tube. Hey moron, nothing is trying to come IN to the tire! Did you forget that the pressure in the tire is HIGHER than the outside air? Geez...try harder next time.

Jerk.

And another thing. You need to stay off my back. I am tired of you running your mouth about me. You don't know a lick about me, so shut it.

 

[A Squared]

You first post included how you knew NOTHING about why nitrogen was used in aircraft tires.

No, go back and read it. I said I don't know *why* nitrogen escapes more slowly, or even if it does escape measurably more slowly. You can read that it does in a lot of places, but here is some evidence that it may be a myth, perpetuated by the folks who sell nitrogen filling machines.

You are just mad because a GIA pilot knows more than you do! And I know that bothers you.

Uhhh, no, I'm not mad, I'm just pointing out that most of what you posted is pure crap, and you certainly do not know more about chemistry and physics than I do. It has nothing to do with where you bought a job. These are facts, you can look thm up. You're wrong.

Whats wrong with Layman's terms?

Uhhh, when you're "layman's terms are incorrect, thyey are wrong. Why is that such a difficult concpt for you?

You looked that one up for this didn't you? It takes a lot to bust my balls, huh?

Yeah, I had to look up the boiling points. I knew immediately off the top of my head you were full of crap when you started talking about the freezing point of nitrogen as if it were a factor.

Hello? Did I not say that? It takes large temperature changes to change the state of the gas.

No, you did not say that you said, and I quote:

It also retains a constant pressure over large temperature changes.

It most certinly does not "retain a constant pressure" and the pressure varies *more* than air, not less. If less pressure variation with temp is a *good* thing, why would you use nitrogen which varies *more* ??? Answer me that, science whiz.

More Wikipedia BS you really didn't know.

Again, I had to look the specific numbers up, but I know chemistry well enough to see immediately that you don't know what you're talking about.

You don't know a lick about me, so shut it.

You're right, about all I know about you is you bought your job, and you don't know jack about chemistry and physics.

 

[The_Russian]

No, go back and read it. I said I don't know *why* nitrogen escapes more slowly, or even if it does escape measurably more slowly. You can read that it does in a lot of places, but here is some evidence that it may be a myth, perpetuated by the folks who sell nitrogen filling machines.

So, then you go back and read too. You still didn't know why. And that just kills you doesn't it?

Uhhh, no, I'm not mad, I'm just pointing out that most of what you posted is pure crap, and you certainly do not know more about chemistry and physics than I do. It has nothing to do with where you bought a job. These are facts, you can look thm up. You're wrong.

None of it is "crap", you were just looking for an argument. And I did not buy my job, get it staight cry baby. Whaaaaa! Gulfstream.

Uhhh, when you're "layman's terms are incorrect, thyey are wrong. Why is that such a difficult concpt for you?

It was explained properly. Layman's terms are just fine. you were just trying to NOT look like the idiot you ARE.

Yeah, I had to look up the boiling points. I knew immediately off the top of my head you were full of crap when you started talking about the freezing point of nitrogen as if it were a factor.

Told you. And yes, nitrogen can freeze. This may have been the only "crap" you can find in the entire post. I failed to mention that it would turn to liquid first. Pretty lame point to pick a fight over. Seriously, what is your deal with me? Please get a life. The only reason I am even responding is because I am at work.

No, you did not say that you said, and I quote: Quote:
It also retains a constant pressure over large temperature changes.


It most certinly does not "retain a constant pressure" and the pressure varies *more* than air, not less. If less pressure variation with temp is a *good* thing, why would you use nitrogen which varies *more* ??? Answer me that, science whiz.

Of course the pressure will change immediately with any temperature change. I should not have to state the obvious. As far as the GA pilot asking the question is concerned, the pressure will not change. The variable will not be enough to test without sensitive equipment. Therefore, constant pressure over large temperature changes with respect to pilots. Changes in pressure with temperature changes for scientists.

Again, I had to look the specific numbers up, but I know chemistry well enough to see immediately that you don't know what you're talking about.

I am pretty sure everyone knows I am right about what I am talking about. You just have a bug up your a$$.

You're right, about all I know about you is you bought your job, and you don't know jack about chemistry and physics.

Well, you just don't get it do you. I didn't buy my job. When you come down to my workplace in person and learn from me what goes on here, you can talk. Trust me, I went to school and retained.

 

[Gatorman]

You guys scare the he11 out of me.....

I will just turn around and let it go.....I'm going back to the tire shop and try to forget I ever saw this thread.

P.S. Just put nitrogen in the tires and struts and leave all the heavy thinking to the engineers...it is too much of a load for you.

 

[The_Russian]

Thats what I'm sayin'!

 

[cvsfly]

The main reasons I have ever heard is that: 1 it is a dry gas and thus reduces the problems of moisture - freezing and corrosion. 2: It does not support combustion so it will not feed a fire. Just what I have heard - 2 cents worth.

 

[avbug]

I believe the original question asked if we put nitrogen in aircraft wheel assemblies, and the answer is yes, we do. I put it in all wheel assemblies I service, large, or small. I do not use shop air.

Why? Because the manufacturer's approved data requires it.

I do not know all the reasons why a particular manufacturer may require a particular item, part, material, technique, tool, etc. All I need to know, however, is that the item is not airworthy unless it is in compliance with approved data. I can't think of many circumstances in which a manufacturer has directed maintenance personnel to use shop air.

Nitrogen doesn't support combustion, and used in a wheel assembly where the mixture in an oxygen environment can become hot and explosive, reduces the liklihood of an explosion.

 

[wrxpilot]

Nitrogen freezes at a lower temperature. It also retains a constant pressure over large temperature changes. On top of that it does not contain moisture, unlike the ambient outside air. If outside air is pumped into an aircraft that flies above the freezing level, the moisture within the air will freeze inside the tire. This can cause an imbalance or corrosion.

Also, aircraft tires are designed to resist nitrogen permeation though the carcass.

Most descent compressed air systems have water traps in them.

 

[A Squared]

Russian,

First, I would point out that this had nothing to do with you buying your job. I was correcting some erroneous information you posted, just like I posted some erroneous information posted by some others. Go back and read the thread, *You* were the one that brought up Gulfstream, as if that had some relevance to nitrogen. So, if you’re not happy that your purchase of a job has become a topic of conversation, you have no-one to blame but yourself, as you were the one to bring up GIA.

And I did not buy my job

and;

I didn't buy my job. When you come down to my workplace in person and learn from me what goes on here, you can talk. Trust me, I went to school and retained.

Uh-huhhhh, right, got it, you didn’t buy a job, like you said on another thread:

"I did not buy my job. I may have bought some training in a 1900, but not a job."

Look, you may believe this crap, but nobody else does, By your own admission, you went through the "buy a job" program at GIA, you paid your money and you sat in the seat. You may choose to tell yourself that’s not buying a job, and you may even believe it. I don’t think anyone else here believes it though.

Told you. And yes, nitrogen can freeze. This may have been the only "crap" you can find in the entire post. I failed to mention that it would turn to liquid first. Pretty lame point to pick a fight over.

Sigh, you really aren’t too bright, are you? I assumed that you could follow the logic here, but I overestimated you intelligence. OK, I’ll lay it our for you in little easy to digest bites:

You said that Nitrogen was used because it has a lower freezing point.

Nitrogen freezes at a lower temperature.

My point was that this is completely irrelevant (an not just a little bit stupid to mention as being relevant) as the freezing point of nitrogen and oxygen are so low, that they are not a factor. I didn’t say that nitrogen didn’t freeze, I emphasized that the temperatures I posted were boiling points, not freezing points, assuming you could make take the next step yourself and grasp that the freezing points, whtever they are, would naturally be lower. I mentioned the boiling points, because those numbers were handy, and that by posting the boiling points, which are much lower then any temperature you will encounter on this planet outside a laboratory, it would be obvious that the freezing point, which is colder still than the boiling point would be even less likely to be encountered in an aircraft operation on this planet.

I apologize for assuming that you were intelligent enough to fill in those blanks yourself. Henceforth, I will connect all the dots for you , and not assume that you can follow simple logic.

Of course the pressure will change immediately with any temperature change.

Right, you knew that all along, didn’t you. So, explain to us why initially you posted the exact opposite:

Quote from your first post:

"It also retains a constant pressure over large temperature changes."

Don’t attempt to backpedal and say that you didn’t say what you did say. It’s posted right there for everyone to read.

As far as the GA pilot asking the question is concerned, the pressure will not change. The variable will not be enough to test without sensitive equipment. Therefore, constant pressure over large temperature changes with respect to pilots.

Uhhh, no, over a temperature range likely to be experienced by aircraft, the pressure change, whether filled with air or nitrogen, will be significant. In fact the pressure change will be slightly *more* with nitrogen, compared to air.

Now, re-read the following two statements of yours from the same paragraph:

Of course the pressure will change immediately with any temperature change.

Therefore, constant pressure over large temperature changes with respect to pilots.

Are you saying that you are not bright enough to grasp that these two statements are completely contradictory?

You say you know that pressure varies with temperature, then in the next breath you say the pressure *doesn't* vary with temperature. Which is it?

I am pretty sure everyone knows I am right about what I am talking about.

I’m fairly confident that is not the case.

Do you perhaps also post as Spngbobsqrpilot ? I’m noticing a similarity here.

 

[Gorilla]

<munching popcorn> This is a slow motion train wreck. Russian? Your turn.

 

[Headwind]

Race cars use nitrogen because the tire pressure will remain the same with high temps. Also, on a jet aircraft, how would you get 270 psi into your main tires with an air compressor?

HEADWIND

 

[mtrv]

Since I do have slow leaking aircraft tubes, and a bottle of nitrogen with regulators which is normally used for other purposes, I will now fill the tires with nitrogen.

This forum has served a purpose on this subject; and I report back in a few months to a year or two, to let you all know how the nitrogen has stood the test of time, compared to ordinary compressed air in a GA airplane.

 

[sleddriver71]

Whats wrong with Layman's terms?



You looked that one up for this didn't you? It takes a lot to bust my balls, huh?

Hello? Did I not say that? It takes large temperature changes to change the state of the gas.


More Wikipedia BS you really didn't know.

Uhhhh, it was ALL right.


For any other gas to get near the carcass of the tire, it would have to be trying to enter the tube. Hey moron, nothing is trying to come IN to the tire! Did you forget that the pressure in the tire is HIGHER than the outside air? Geez...try harder next time.

Jerk.

And another thing. You need to stay off my back. I am tired of you running your mouth about me. You don't know a lick about me, so shut it.

How old are you? Why are you such a sore loser? Why can't you learn to take criticism? Why can't you accept it when your wrong? Why do you have to let your bad temper show in your responses? Why can't you think straight when your flustered? Why don't you change your call sign? Why are you such a name caller? Why don't you grow up?!

 

[The_Russian]

<munching popcorn> This is a slow motion train wreck. Russian? Your turn.

I'll be back later, busy today.

How old are you? Why are you such a sore loser? Why can't you learn to take criticism? Why can't you accept it when your wrong? Why do you have to let your bad temper show in your responses? Why can't you think straight when your flustered? Why don't you change your call sign? Why are you such a name caller? Why don't you grow up?!

Old enough. I am not a sore loser. Nothing I posted was incorrect. And, that should be noted instead of me being ripped apart be someone who doesn't like me. I can take criticism but not from someone who is just doing it because they dislike me. A Squared has made that clear on previous threads. A bad temper in arguments and not being able to think straight when someone offends me emotionally are some of my downfalls. Every human has some of those. I will conceed that! I am not going to change my call sign because I am proud of where I have been in my life and stand for what I have done. I should not be ashamed of who I am because others don't like my career path. Name calling is fun. People call me names on here all the time if you haven't noticed. I don't think I'll ever grow up. I'm a Toys 'R' Us kid!

 

[The_Russian]

And BTW.... If A Squared was really interested in correcting those who were wrong on the subject for the benifit of this thread, he would have ripped apart the other ten posts that were wrong just like he did to mine.

 

[Andy Neill]

I don't know what the rest of you are breathing, but I breathe in over three times as much nitrogen than oxygen every day since the earth's atmosphere is 78% nitrogen and only 21% O2.

 

[Ralgha]

And BTW.... If A Squared was really interested in correcting those who were wrong on the subject for the benifit of this thread, he would have ripped apart the other ten posts that were wrong just like he did to mine.

Actually he did rip apart a few other posts, not just yours, however, you are the only one who can't admit that you were wrong.

 

[V-1]

Since I do have slow leaking aircraft tubes, and a bottle of nitrogen with regulators which is normally used for other purposes, I will now fill the tires with nitrogen.

This forum has served a purpose on this subject; and I report back in a few months to a year or two, to let you all know how the nitrogen has stood the test of time, compared to ordinary compressed air in a GA airplane.

Why not perform a controlled experiment? Inflate one main tire with ordinary air, and one with nitrogen. Take tire pressures before and after every flight. Record them carefully in a table or graph. Report back to us in twelve months on your findings. There might even be some government grant money available to finance your research (and as a side benefit, your flying)!

Around here, there is a retail automotive tire store chain that advertises "Nitrogen Inflation" as a significant benefit for cars...because the molecules are bigger and don't leak as rapidly as oxygen ones. It always makes me smile to think of the people who pay a premium for that 22% of gas in their tire that isn't oxygen.

I'm no gas expert (though I can hold my own against anyone when it comes to producing it) but it seems to me if oxygen molecules leak out faster than nitrogen molecules, at some point in time there would have to be a very small percentage of oxygen molecules remaining in a tire vs. the remaining nitrogen molecules.

 

[wrxpilot]

Race cars use nitrogen because the tire pressure will remain the same with high temps. Also, on a jet aircraft, how would you get 270 psi into your main tires with an air compressor?

HEADWIND

No, that is NOT why race cars use Nitrogen. ASQUARED is correct, all gasses follow the same law of PV=nRT. If temp goes up, pressure goes up. Do some aircraft tires really require 270 PSI? Well even if they do, there are air compressor systems that can easily handle it. Not every air compressor is like the one out in your garage.

Here's a link to Ingersoll Rand about the benefits of Nitrogen:
http://www.irtools.com/products/nitrogen/