Do DAL pilots have more to lose in a Chap 11 filing or in giving $1bil

[Networ-King]

Been toolin around the Delta system for the last couple of days and the magic day seems to be August 26th for the "BIG" announcment. Dunno who to believe anymore..... just gotta wait it out.

 

[General Lee]

True dat Networ-King.


ATR-drvr,

You're right. It will be interesting. Dalpa will always be there to bail them out. What other bad choice do we have? Yeah, I have a bid in for INTL...(don't know what plane---777, Cargo Md11(?), 767ER)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[G4G5]

I guess I was a bit confused. I had a jumpseater the other day with an Eagle ID who said he was a furloughed AA pilot now flying left seat in an ERJ. I asked him if he had flown at Eagle prior to AA and he said he had not. So what's the real deal then? Did AA pilots "flow down" to Eagle and displace Eagle captains back to the right seat or was there enough growth at Eagle to accomodate the flowdowns and all the existing Eagle captains? Are the Eagle FO's condemned to the right seat indefinitely because of the "flowdowns?" Is Eagle hiring more furloughed AA pilots if they're hurting so bad for new talent that the minimums are down to a mere 1000/100? Or do the furloughed AA guys prefer collecting unemployment benefits which probably pay about the same as first year pay at Eagle?

Don't quote me but somehwere between 245-290 AA mainline furloughed pilots were able to flowback onto eternal bottom feeder reserve as an Eagle ERJ capt. The ruling went to an arbitrator who determined that whatever number of Eagle pilots flowed up to AA, the same number had the right to flow back to Eagle. No Eagle Captains lost seats from what I understand. The Flow back are required to be on reserve until the junior most Eagle off the street fo(as of the flowback date)has upgraded to captain. The Eagle fo's move up and upgrade as planned. Many of the furloughed AA fo's chose to by pass the flowback because of the required reserve ( estimates place it at 7+ years), the AA fo's from what I understand are not allowed to switch bases either, which for many folks ment commuting to reserve with no end in site, for a job that typically requires 18 days on.

Since there were only a limited number of of slots the pilot on your jump seat may have elected to apply through traditional metholds. I heard that they were giving preference to furloughed AA guys but this is not something I know for sure, since not too many AA fo's that I know of have tried to get on with Eagle. Considering the fact that Eagle just lowerd their mins from 1200/200 to 1000/100 I would venture to guess that just about all the furloughed AApilots would meet the Eagle hiring requirements.

 

[Draginass]

An experienced AA pilot apply to Eagle as a new hire copilot?? YGBSM. One statistic says it all. When Eagle recalled their furloughed copilots, only 9 of 98 accepted recall. What does that tell you? I think words alone fail to describe the morale, working conditions, and corporate ethos at American Eagle.

 

[satpak77]

is it true that....

Some furloughed AA guys were given the option to flow back to Eagle, but in an effort to save $$$ on the RJ training (only to see the AA guys flow back to AA at some point), they were given the option to "sit home" on full Eagle Captain pay?

I heard this, but you know the pilot rumor-vine

 

[G4G5]

Some furloughed AA guys were given the option to flow back to Eagle, but in an effort to save $$$ on the RJ training (only to see the AA guys flow back to AA at some point), they were given the option to "sit home" on full Eagle Captain pay?

I heard this, but you know the pilot rumor-vine

Some of the AA fo's did manage to sit home and get paid but this was due to politics. The APA and ALPA were busy fighting as to where and which seat the initial batch of flowbaks would go to. It eventually wound up inarbitration.

If you elected to flowback AA required a 24 month lock in at Eagle. This eliminated any possibility of what you are refering to.

Another reason the flow back was unpopular was because of the recall rate AA mgt set up. Their wasn't one. Once off the street recalls happen, if you elected the flowback you can be bypassed out of seniority. AA mgt has not set up a recall rate, they could elect to flowup just one AA fo a month/class/year, whatever they want. According to the APA rep I spoke with their is nothing in the wording of the contract that requires them to take you back right away. You could also wind up getting stuck at Eagle while someone jr to you is recalled off the street.

Oh and lets not forget pay, reserve gurantee is 72 hrs a month, with very little opportunity to make anything beyond that. The flowbacks were awarded longevity so in most cases they started out at 3rd year ERj ca pay, which is approx $57 an hour. 72x$57x12=$49,248

http://airlinepilotpay.com/eagle/eagle.htm

 

[satpak77]

ok thanks

that clears it up

as an aside, a buddy of mine (on furlough by the way) was an Eagle FO on the SAAB who applied to AA "externally" and got hired, and all the Eagle Captains who were waiting for the Eagle-->AA flow-thru were pretty pissed at him

thats what he told me anyway

later

 

[Skyboss]

Here's the deal. DAL management won't stop at $1 billion for the pilots. Once the pilots give in, DAL management will say that's not enough and say that $1.3 billion is the minimum (knowing that this negotiating window will be open for just a little while - take advantage of the situation and get more). Under Chapter 11, negotiations will be structured better and OTHER stakeholders will be asked to contribute as well - not solely the one union on the property. Notice that it's a classic negotiating move that they now put more issues on the negotiating table (jumpseats, etc.) so that they can "take more away" in order to get what they want.

How can you trust a management who has made so many blunders in the past and now has sought to make the pilots union the scapegoat for all of its problems? Sure, pilot costs need to come down - the LCC environment forces the issue. No argument there. But DAL management will likely try to take advantage of the situation (super negative "sky is falling" public relations campaign) to get as much as they can from the pilots union as possible right now...

So when Delta folds, you'll know why right? Just checking. Take your pay cut or lose your job, your choice.

Proof is in the pudding and you're employer is dying, do your flippin' part:

http://www.airlinepilotpay.com/

BTW: You have new management, or did you miss that? Also look at your CEO's history with Western. He'll unload DL in a heartbeat if things start going south (creepy irony). Then you won't have an income to whine about, or you'll have a new employer who sticks it to you with no seniority. Either way, you come out the back end of a donkey all covered in it.

 

[Skyboss]

Been toolin around the Delta system for the last couple of days and the magic day seems to be August 26th for the "BIG" announcment. Dunno who to believe anymore..... just gotta wait it out.

777 sold off, 737-800 to 36" pitch shuttle with no FC - limit of 750 nms for flight. CRJ-700/900 order to replace short hop (450 NM MD A/C). MD-90's gone. 757's all coach 36" pitch with FC. Depeak of hubs. All the bad stuff the Bible talks about.

 

[G4G5]

When I was at DAL they only had 6 or so 777's.

How many 777's are they currently operating and on which routes. Unfortunatly I can see this coming if all of the over 25 year senior folks decide to pull the plug with minimal notice.

 

[DL_Infidel]

Please

So when Delta folds, you'll know why right? Just checking. Take your pay cut or lose your job, your choice.

Delta folding...YGTBSM. And we already know why, don't you: inept management. You've been reading too much graffiti in the employee bathroom. There are a lot more variables involved in "take your pay cut or lose your job". You could substitue "and" for "or". My choice is to trust John Malone, not mismanagement.

Proof is in the pudding and you're employer is dying, do your flippin' part:

http://www.airlinepilotpay.com/

http://www.airlinepilotpay.com/[QUOTE=Skyboss

Beautiful pay scale isn't it? I think we'll hold onto it for as long as we can.

BTW: You have new management, or did you miss that? Also look at your CEO's history with Western. He'll unload DL in a heartbeat if things start going south (creepy irony). Then you won't have an income to whine about, or you'll have a new employer who sticks it to you with no seniority. Either way, you come out the back end of a donkey all covered in it.

New management...now that's funny. GG's been on the board 17+ years and he shuffled the deck a little...same old gaurd, same old tactics...that's why we're in trouble. We can't control GG's actions, we're just along for the ride.

Believe it or not, many of us will still continue to have an income with or without DL. BTW, how did the donkey get mixed up in all this? It appears that you're very unhappy, and you have other issues aside from your hostility towards DL pilots. Take care of them, you'll live longer.


DL_Infidel