Do business people hate Southwest now?

[Andy]

According to BTN's website they have 46,759 subscribers that spend 239 Billion dollars a year annually. My Dad is a subscriber. What ever the highest level of frequent flier status you can have with Continental is, he has it. I think that's the sorta person who reads and cares about that stuff. I think there is a difference between traveling on business and a business traveller. The business traveller spends money on travel as a cost of doing business. Traveling on business implies you just need to get from point a to b to get the job done. It really isn't realistic to compare the level of service offered by a legacy carrier to any of the LCC's. The LCC's will get a portion of business transports who are attempting to curb costs. But the airport clubs, first/business class and global reach puts the legacies in a different class of service.

I got to 1K status at UAL on business travel. But that was in a DoD position where the DoD negotiated bulk fares with the airlines. Since I was in DC and most city pairs had a UAL choice, I aimed almost all of my flying to UAL with AMR being my second choice.
That kind of model works fine for a large company with a lot of employees who travel.

In my brother's case, he does not have a large travel budget. He does not have the power to negotiate good rates with any airline because his employees don't travel very often - perhaps an annual product training event or conference for the employee. He also has very little turnover in spite of his stingy travel budget. Funny, his employees understand that if my brother pays a bunch of money for airfare and a hotel room, they won't get paid as much money. They prefer pay over preassigned seating and a nice hotel.

I find a comparison between Southwest and Major carriers to be apples to oranges. Frankly, I'm surprised that Southwest is even mentioned in the publication. I suspect that Southwest making the list is a recent phenomenom and instead of being dismissed, this should cause great concern among pilots at legacy carriers.

 

[Sacha]

Funny....those airlines that cater to the Elites rather than the "scum" that fly on SWA rarely are profitable. Some, like Flopguts airline Continental, have gone Bankrupt....
Not once....But twice and was barely able to avoid bankruptcy a third and final time....

Funny how SWA manages to be profitable year in and year out for almost 40 years.....

If you add up all the losses over the last 30 years of these First Rate Airlines, you might have the equivalent to the outstanding student loans of all the trust-fund babies protesting down on Wall Street...

As a matter of fact, there is a remarkable similarity to the intelligence and logic of the Einstein's down there and the posters on this thread......

 

[madjack]

I am sure that our position on the list (dead last) is a big concern for our mgmt...we would love to have the corporate FF business...tough business

 

[gobyebye]

I find a comparison between Southwest and Major carriers to be apples to oranges. Frankly, I'm surprised that Southwest is even mentioned in the publication. I suspect that Southwest making the list is a recent phenomenom and instead of being dismissed, this should cause great concern among pilots at legacy carriers.

I agree, it seems like they have really only pushed hard for business travelers in the last 5 yrs or so. To make the list at number five is actually pretty impressive for swa.

 

[KNOTS]

If you add up all the losses over the last 30 years of these First Rate Airlines, you might have the equivalent to the outstanding student loans of all the trust-fund babies protesting down on Wall Street...

Huhhh?

 

[humveedriver]

Some people travel internationally on a frequent basis. Some people live close to a airport that is served by a certain carrier. Domestic low fare flying has everything to do with SWA. Long haul international, not so much. Maybe one day the legacies will stop providing the club rooms and two/three class service. There is nothing wrong with SWA's business model. Like Andy said it's apples to oranges.

 

[Flopgut]

Funny....those airlines that cater to the Elites rather than the "scum" that fly on SWA rarely are profitable. Some, like Flopguts airline Continental, have gone Bankrupt....
Not once....But twice and was barely able to avoid bankruptcy a third and final time....

Funny how SWA manages to be profitable year in and year out for almost 40 years.....

If you add up all the losses over the last 30 years of these First Rate Airlines, you might have the equivalent to the outstanding student loans of all the trust-fund babies protesting down on Wall Street...

As a matter of fact, there is a remarkable similarity to the intelligence and logic of the Einstein's down there and the posters on this thread......

You've got a hard-on for CAL because you got shot down by them in the late 70's and ended up at EAL? Right? That and the obvious stuff too, I'm sure. Except I have my doubts as to whether or not you're fully comfortable with the scab question...

 

[Flopgut]

A product/service that sustains a drastic and emotionally charged change (9-11 and the great recession) will see customers gravitate in two directions: cheap and premium. Thats the major reasons both SWA and bizjet stuff have grown so much. Legacies have been stuck in the middle, but are set to earn back customers from all areas.

 

[Sacha]

Huhhh?

There you go....an OWS genius on FI......I rest my case.....

 

[Sacha]

You've got a hard-on for CAL because you got shot down by them in the late 70's and ended up at EAL? Right? That and the obvious stuff too, I'm sure. Except I have my doubts as to whether or not you're fully comfortable with the scab question...

Nice deflection Floppy....I was still in the Military in the late 70's and Continental wasn't hiring anyway....

You are not too comfortable with the dismal financial and service history of Continental over the last 35 years which is why you have an obsession with SWA accomplishing everything CO could not...

I'll take Herb over Frank Lorenzo any day.....

Now how about a little Reality Check.......I would invite those of you who are employed by Elite Global Airlines to read the WSJ today. In particular, focus on the lead story on the front page. After that, flip over to page A8 and read the articles relating to World finances.....

Now tell me how strong worldwide business travel is going to be for the next 5 years or so. In particular, how does this reality affect those airlines like Continental/United who are struggling to merge their operations in the middle of this?

Flopgut, in your case, get your Dad to explain this to you since you most likely don't know what the WSJ is.....

Flopgut....better hope you have between 10% and 20% of the seniority list below you......

P.S. I do like your Avatar picture....I just can't decide if those two guys represent your ALPA MEC Chairmen....or your respective CEO's....

Either way it is spot on!!!......

 

[General Lee]

Nice deflection Floppy....I was still in the Military in the late 70's and Continental wasn't hiring anyway....

You are not too comfortable with the dismal financial and service history of Continental over the last 35 years which is why you have an obsession with SWA accomplishing everything CO could not...

I'll take Herb over Frank Lorenzo any day.....

That's right, you were flying in the 70s when most of us were young children or not even born yet. I like it when people like Andy try to turn this survey around and say it's good for SWA. WRONG. Compared to the others in a RECENT survey, Southwest was last for this survey of business travellers. Your fares are often higher than the legacies, and your business product is the same as your coach product, which isn't something businessmen want. You can continue to draw upon your vast knowledge of the past (since you were there with the Wright brothers too), or you can read the survey TODAY and see that your airline scored LAST. That culture of yours is sinking thanks to higher fares for everyone, and the way you treated your new employees from Airtran. Good bye old man.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Flopgut]

Nice deflection Floppy....I was still in the Military in the late 70's and Continental wasn't hiring anyway....

You are not too comfortable with the dismal financial and service history of Continental over the last 35 years which is why you have an obsession with SWA accomplishing everything CO could not...

I'll take Herb over Frank Lorenzo any day....

Uh, yeah they were hiring. CAL was still "the proud bird with the golden tail" back then. Bob Six's airline with personal touches left by his movie star wife Audrey Meadows.

SWA is durably profitable. Other than that, SWA has not, and never will, accomplish anything CAL didn't do first. You are a menial, simplified operation that has grown very expensive.

Both Frank and Herb are gone. You of all people should know any outfit could have become a casualty to a Lorenzo-type. You and way too many of your SWA brethren want to take a victory lap like you've put the game away. The legacies have been around twice as long as SWA; You're at halftime. Deregulation was suppose to grow competition and sustain a larger number of smaller airlines. Well, we all got over that idea pretty quick didn't we? CAL pilots have been through mergers and we're equipped to go through another now.

Other than fly in the military, I wouldn't trade careers with you. Even for the money.

 

[Sacha]

Uh no...they were not hiring....as a matter of fact, some of the first Scabs to cross the line were furloughed Continental pilots.....But why let facts get in the way....

You skipped commenting on the WSJ articles in today's edition. Perhaps because it's easier to stick your head in the sand and bash Southwest. Face it, you work for two notoriously dysfunctional airlines that have shifted their emphasis from Domestic to International at a time when the Worlds economy is about to go off a cliff. These two airlines that both have horrible management and angry employees dating back to the early to mid 80's are now going to combine operations.....How much fat would be there in good times?....usually a lot. What about during economic Armageddon on a worldwide scale?....

Hope your parents have a nice basement for you....

Not that it will have any meaning for you, but take a good, long look at the debt as percentage of GDP ratings of those countries. Then realize all it is going to take is just one of those countries to Default and beg for help....2008 will look like a small downturn in comparison.....

If the only thing you can come up with is to zero in on SWA coming in last in Business travelers preference....well....that is absolutely hilarious if it wasn't so pitifully sad....

Career-wise and financially, that survey and the supposed loss of "culture" is the extent of my exposure... Which is just about zero....

You on the other hand have a target on your butt as big as Osama at a Bat Mitzvah....

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Speaking of Southwest. Their stock price was above $13 six months ago, but is now down in the $8 range. What's happening over there?

 

[Sacha]

Speaking of Southwest. Their stock price was above $13 six months ago, but is now down in the $8 range. What's happening over there?

Speaking of Delta.....$14.5. Now 8.5
Speaking of American....$9. Now 2
Speaking of Ual/Co.....$30. Now 16

What's happening over there?......

Oh, I forgot....I have read some of your Left-wing rants....and the fact that you went to Embry-Ridiculous......

Your stellar financial observations and understanding are right up there with the two current occupant idiots, Obama and Biden.....

 

[Slug]

Speaking of Southwest. Their stock price was above $13 six months ago, but is now down in the $8 range. What's happening over there?

American Airlines reported a loss.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Sacka,

You forgot Alaska...$55 a share.

 

[Sacha]

Sacka,

You forgot Alaska...$55 a share.

Fudgepacker,

Not that a Regional airline like yours is relevant, but ok let's look...

End of July, early august it was around $70

In about 3 months it dropped to around $50 for a drop of about 30%.....

The dollar per share amount is usually meaningless.....

Percentage drop in a 3 month period invites a few more questions....
Did the market drop 30% in the same time period or is Skywest going to acquire you guys?........relative seniority is only fair.....but an Arbitrator will take care of that for you.......

Does ALPA National provide you guys with the calculators that have the giant buttons....or do you still use your fingers and toes like when you were the "Squadron Gomer"?..........

 

[General Lee]

Speaking of Delta.....$14.5. Now 8.5
Speaking of American....$9. Now 2
Speaking of Ual/Co.....$30. Now 16

What's happening over there?......

Oh, I forgot....I have read some of your Left-wing rants....and the fact that you went to Embry-Ridiculous......

Your stellar financial observations and understanding are right up there with the two current occupant idiots, Obama and Biden.....

Yeah, but your culture is going down the tubes! We had a good overall merger, and yours is getting worse. What a bunch of idiots. Your management sides with ONE side before arbitration? GREAT IDEA, NOT. Enjoy it at USAir II.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Flopgut]

Uh no...they were not hiring....as a matter of fact, some of the first Scabs to cross the line were furloughed Continental pilots.....But why let facts get in the way...

I'm looking at the seniority list Sacha. I don't know what you're looking at.

There's a long list of real bad things that have been going on economically (and otherwise) that have particuliarly detrimental effects on the legacy airline's business for a long time. And I realize you cheer it on because it's been the bread and butter over there at SWA for the last 10+ years, but we've adapted. This stuff in this article? no biggie. YOU like to forget that CAL clawed it's way back from the grave to a very respectable airline (ran your butts out of IAH), and that UAL was once a DOW component. Your going to have to compete with us and it's not going to be the cakewalk you've had in the past. Your not going to be able to hide out at Love Field and have the competition eliminated like you did with Braniff.

Spend a little more time trying to muster some professionalism and see if you can get thru what should be a fairly clean merger, and a little less time hoping something terrible happens in the world and makes it easy for you....