DL/NWA Seniority List Integration Arbitration starts TODAY...article

[123]

NWA MEC publication "Across the Table", March 2006 I believe.

Do you have a copy of it? Is it the one that states the following:

...
Management made
a case that 76-seat aircraft in a dual-class configuration were
needed to compete in the future and, importantly, that they
would not be used to replace DC-9 aircraft.

It is our belief that 51–76-seat aircraft will not accelerate
the retirement of the DC-9 fleet. NWA’s business plan shows
the DC-9 fleet continuing to operate well into the future,
with many of the aircraft remaining in the fleet until
mandatory cycle limits require their retirement from service.
The demand for 100-seat aircraft at NWA is very real

 

[FDJ2]

Do you have a copy of it? Is it the one that states the following:

...
Management made
a case that 76-seat aircraft in a dual-class configuration were
needed to compete in the future and, importantly, that they
would not be used to replace DC-9 aircraft.

It is our belief that 51–76-seat aircraft will not accelerate
the retirement of the DC-9 fleet. NWA’s business plan shows
the DC-9 fleet continuing to operate well into the future,
with many of the aircraft remaining in the fleet until
mandatory cycle limits require their retirement from service.
The demand for 100-seat aircraft at NWA is very real

Is that the one that also states:


"The solution we negotiated has stopped that shift at Northwest and we hope in the industry.DC-9 replacement aircraft, the 77 to 110-seataircraft, will be flown at the mainline by Northwest seniority list pilots."

What are the pay rates on the DC-9 replacement aircraft?


​

 

[Superpilot92]

Great, let's discuss and see if we understand this language.

Simple question, the threshold level has already been set, the company has parked additional narrowbody aircraft, with no replacements and has announced further reductions, how many 51-76 seaters have been reduced? If none, why not?
:beer:

Easy, its because we havent gone below that specified floor. That is precisely why the decision to park (not retire) those DC9s when they did. That was done before the floor was set. That is also why the number of CRJ900's and EMB175s were ordered and none further. Had they ordered more it would have gone against the language.

 

[PuffDriver]

Easy, its because we havent gone below that specified floor. That is precisely why the decision to park (not retire) those DC9s when they did. That was done before the floor was set. That is also why the number of CRJ900's and EMB175s were ordered and none further. Had they ordered more it would have gone against the language.

Anybody see Steenland on TV? Interesting comments about the "older aircraft". And the hits just keep coming.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Boat is half full of water, but hey it is only half full right super?

 

[MCDU]

NWA pilots will be furlough fodder if DAL pilots get their way. 2007 DOH remain employed while pilots hired in 2000 will hit the street.
Seniority should never be for sale. You will never get it back. Taking a snap shot and trying to predict on who will in better shape is a sham. DOH with conditions and protections. Union principles.
DOH at USAIR will only effect the pilot group for 10 years. After that, 80% of East pilot group will be gone and the AWA pilots will be all screaming how DOH is the only fair way.

DOH is the way to go. Like the Piedmont pilots who intially fought DOH while merging with USAIR. DOH with conditions and protections works in the long run, but most pilots are to short sighted to grasp that concept.

M

 

[michael707767]

DOH is the way to go. Like the Piedmont pilots who intially fought DOH while merging with USAIR. DOH with conditions and protections works in the long run, but most pilots are to short sighted to grasp that concept.

ALPA policy makes no mention of DOH.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Guess what. the next ten years are the problem. DC-9's going bye bye, 744's that were put on short term leases, with the assumption that the 787 would be on time, will go bye bye as there are many people out there that want them, 742's in the words of our VP of MTC are DOA, 320's that are nearing the end of their life(old ones), MD-88's only have about 10 years left in them (per our fleet plan)
Notice that all but the 88 come from NWA. I believe that we(DAL) are correct in our thinking that many of these will be gone in the next five years. With or with out a merger. With out it the 744 would be replaced, with 18 787, the DC-9's are being replaced with 175's, CR-9's and the like. With the DALPA proposal it takes in to account where the furloughs will come from when, not if these airframes are parked.
I know you are defensive, I would be too. It is tough to face the cold hard reality that even though you are making money now, your fleet will be farmed out much like ours was a half a decade ago. We realized our pain, we refuse to endure the pain of rationalizing your fleet.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Northwest Fleet (as of 3/31/08)
Aircraft Seats Owned Leased Total Orders
B747-400 403 4 12 16 -
B747-200 Freighter - 9 3 12 -
B787-800 TBD - - - 18
A330-300 298 21 - 21

A330-200 243 11 - 11 -
B757-300 224 16 - 16 -
B757-200 182 38 17 55 -
A320-200 148 45 28 73 2
A319-100 124 55 2 57 5
DC9-50 125 34 - 34 -
DC9-40 110 11 - 11 -
DC9-30 100 42 - 42 -
CRJ-200 50/44 - 141 141 -
CRJ-900 76 19 - 19 17
EMB-175 76 16 - 16 19
Total Jet Aircraft
321 203 524 61

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Most of your orders are for 175's and CR-9's last time I checked those were not going to be flown by you or us.
This data comes from your website.

 

[FDJ2]

Easy, its because we havent gone below that specified floor. That is precisely why the decision to park (not retire) those DC9s when they did. That was done before the floor was set. That is also why the number of CRJ900's and EMB175s were ordered and none further. Had they ordered more it would have gone against the language.

So if they "retire" vs "park" all the DC-9s, how many 51-76 seat RJs can NWA operate?

 

[Superpilot92]

the DC-9's are being replaced with 175's, CR-9's and the like. With the DALPA proposal it takes in to account where the furloughs will come from when, not if these airframes are parked.

You of all people know and understand the SCOPE language yet you pretend its not there, why? I know it makes your argument sound better but still.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

You agreed with me on another board. All it takes is a LOA bud.
Read what FDJ2 states. That my friend is fact. Nuances of the terms of the scope is what you need to understand. The lawyers do.

 

[DTW320]

Guess what. the next ten years are the problem. DC-9's going bye bye, 744's that were put on short term leases, with the assumption that the 787 would be on time, will go bye bye as there are many people out there that want them, 742's in the words of our VP of MTC are DOA, 320's that are nearing the end of their life(old ones), MD-88's only have about 10 years left in them (per our fleet plan)
Notice that all but the 88 come from NWA. I believe that we(DAL) are correct in our thinking that many of these will be gone in the next five years. With or with out a merger. With out it the 744 would be replaced, with 18 787, the DC-9's are being replaced with 175's, CR-9's and the like. With the DALPA proposal it takes in to account where the furloughs will come from when, not if these airframes are parked.
I know you are defensive, I would be too. It is tough to face the cold hard reality that even though you are making money now, your fleet will be farmed out much like ours was a half a decade ago. We realized our pain, we refuse to endure the pain of rationalizing your fleet.

Ooooh, new spin! Cool! NWA 744's will now be parked and that will cause more NWA furloughs. Entertaining fiction you have dreamed up there.
787 was never a planned replacement for 744's. Sorry. Different mission entirely. Richard seems pretty excited about using the 744 in the DAL system. DC-9 ASM's can't be replaced with the # of 175's allowed.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Not spin fact. Look at the financing on the 744's when it was done and how it correlates to the 787.