DISCUSS - Cactus/UAL Merger?

[Draginass]

Merging USAir and UAL is like tying two boat anchors together in hopes that they'll float.

It would prove entertaining to watch a three-sided hair pullin', eye gougin', fight to the death seniority integration . . . East vs. West vs. Ual ALPA.

 

[Uniform Shop]

Thought so. I went back to UAL a little over a year and a half ago. How's CAL?

It's going pretty good. Our contract needs a lot of work but overall I can't complain.

I still talk to a few of the guys from Allegiant. They seem pretty happy about the way things are going over there. If I stayed at Allegiant they probably would have been bankrupt in 6 months but because I left they will probably buy CAL. :laugh:

 

[AKMD80GUY]

How about a UAL/CAL/AS threeway?

 

[PreContact]

What would be interesting is US/Air Canada...wonder if anyone is loking north? That would be interesting, both Star Alliance carriers, lots of lift. Any thoughts?

 

[PHXFLYR]

I always thought the cactus/ATA thing would have been good. that or cactus/spirit/frontier or something similar might have worked.

Betcha there would have been alot less "Bee ess" from their respective pilot groups too compared to the ration we've been getting from the easties the last several years had something like what you had mentioned come to pass. Ahh..what could have been....

PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

No kidding. When most of us found out we were aquiring US Airways there was a collective "NOOOOOOO!!!!" and a collective "what the f%$@ is Parker thinking???".

Colleen Barrett the former President of Southwest Airlines, when asked the day after Parker announced the merger what she thought of it by a financial reporter, was quoted as saying; "He must be on drugs"
In the entire history of mankind ,truer words were never spoken by anyone ,man or woman ,as they were at that moment, on that day, by that lady.

PHXFLYR

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Colleen Barrett the former President of Southwest Airlines, when asked the day after Parker announced the merger what she thought of it by a financial reporter, was quoted as saying; "He must be on drugs"
In the entire history of mankind ,truer words were never spoken by anyone ,man or woman ,as they were at that moment, on that day, by that lady.

PHXFLYR

Not to be a bother... But exactly where would you be without the US merger? Lets see... A small airline with very little total industry market share, fighting Southwest in low yielding lesiure hubs? Sorry, AWA staying independant was never going to happen.

I can relate with the sentiment that US was not your ideal dancing partner, but geez, get a grip!

 

[PHXFLYR]

What would be interesting is US/Air Canada...wonder if anyone is loking north? That would be interesting, both Star Alliance carriers, lots of lift. Any thoughts?

And be responsible for starting an" international incident" with one of the best neighbors this country could ever ask for ??? Uh-uh, no thanks. I'll take peace along the boarder with our Canadian friends vs. messing up AirCanada by merging this mess with them any day


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Not to be a bother... But exactly where would you be without the US merger? Lets see... A small airline with very little total industry market share, fighting Southwest in low yielding lesiure hubs? Sorry, AWA staying independant was never going to happen.

I can relate with the sentiment that US was not your ideal dancing partner, but geez, get a grip!

And what will we be after the DL/NW merger and the rumored UA/CO merger ?? "Let's see ...a small airline with very little total industry market share competeing with Southwest in low cost leisure markets" ; and, oh yeah,let's not forget, PHL and PIT,too . And this is after we bought the sorry "bass -turds". So as you can very well see, nothing much has changed , except for the fact that we inherited a broken down east coast airline with a totally dispirited work force. I agree that AWA staying independent wasn't going to happen. But now, with the DL/NW merger getting ready to set off another round of consolidation, I would have to say the only thing we gained by merging with USAir is a very disgruntled workforce and not much else that could even remotley be considered a competative threat, now that the airline industry landscape is getting ready to change.


PHXFLYR

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

I agree that AWA staying independent wasn't going to happen. But now, with the DL/NW merger getting ready to set off another round of consolidation, I would have to say the only thing we gained by merging with USAir is a very disgruntled workforce and not much else that could even remotley be considered a competative threat, now that the airline industry landscape is getting ready to change.


PHXFLYR

On that, we agree!

I am concerned, and I am sure Doug is too, that US needs another merger to stay flying.

The problem is that US Airways may be worth less cohesively that the sum of it's parts. Sure PHL is valuable, what metro area of 5.2 million people wouldn't be? But as a hub it is a mess, and I am not sure another airline wants to take that problem on.

Charlotte is a gem, but it isn't Atlanta. Not that this is a bad thing, but it doesn't have the O&D traffic that ATL does. A nice secondary hub for someone, a good facility that someone would probably like for themselves.

NYC? Oversaturated. 'Nuff said.

BOS? Does US still have a presence there?

PHX. Not a lot of high yielding traffic. Essentially a discretionary travel market. SW is fully entrenched, making for a tough competitive environment.

I hope I am wrong, but unless US can find a partner (a menage a trois with CAL/UAL?) the future might look more like a yard sale than a merger.

 

[fyeo777]

I don’t think anyone will dance with UsAir now, Parker had his chance to get into the consolidation game and he picked the wrong dance partner. Consolidation in today’s environment is all about gaining global international presence to tap more valuable revenue streams. At the time of the US transaction parker was looking at gaining market share domestically. Gaining domestic Market share is essentially worthless now with competition from Southwest and the like. Look at all the pull down among the other legacy carriers. US needs United, United needs US like it needs another attempt at entering the Biz jet market. United can’t get what it lacks internationally by entering in a transaction with US. Unfortunately USAir is in a bad position with heavy competition from Southwest in all major hubs. This could lead to a failure of US within the next couple of years. Unfortunately any cost saving that could have been realized to preserve its cash position is being eaten away by being unable to combine its operations due to the pilot’s dispute. USAPA may win in their election but there sonority gains may be short lived as the long term outlook for the company doesn’t look promising if oil keeps rising. With these oil prices US might be out of cash by the end of next year. I think AWA had a better chance on their own but has now been tainted by the east. I think the remaining airlines have one chance to enter the consolidation game and make it work and none of them will touch US with a ten foot pole. AA/TWA is another example of poorly executed merger in terms of value; AA just inherited more pensions and markets with little value.

 

[Prog 2/2]

AA/TWA is another example of poorly executed merger in terms of value; AA just inherited more pensions and markets with little value.

Disagree with that portion.

Well, the value statement, anyway.

AMR paid (IIRC) ~750 mil for the assets of TWA.

The pre-planned bankruptcy filing allowed AMR to shed most of TWA's obligations, renegotiate aircraft leases, and eliminate unprofitable assets at will.

Worldspan was sold for several million dollars, the TWA aircraft retained(most of them newer than the existing AA fleet) were used to replace the F-100, and the mtc/overhaul base at MCI added mtc capacity that is now being used to generate income from outside work.

Most of the TWA employees were shed post-9/11, and AA has no pension obligations to those who retired before the purchase.

AA/AMR received value for their money for the assets.

Whether the associated merger costs were monies well spent, is another question.

Apologies for the hijack.

 

[fyeo777]

Thanks for the info on AA/TWA, I stand corrected. As for my predictions on US I think they will play out in the near future.

 

[Green]

With these oil prices US might be out of cash by the end of next year. .

that would require a loss of +- 3 Billion for 2008. I don't see that happening. I do agree that Us Airways has a marginal product but we have quite a bit of cash in the bank and relatively low costs. We had the highest pre-tax profit in 2006 and the second highest pre-tax profit for 2007. It would take a very poor 2008 to put us out of business....

 

[fyeo777]

I hope you are right for the employees sake.