Discrimination Suits Hit Four Airlines

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100 percent of the hijackers on 9-11 were Arab muslim males. But our politicians are terrified of Jesse Jackson, the NAACP, the various Arab anti-discrimination groups and all the other professional victims groups out there. Profiling works, that's the best way to prevent these maggots from taking over another plane again.

 

[TWA Dude]

Profiling works, that's the best way to prevent these maggots from taking over another plane again.

"Profiling" refers to selecting certain categories of passengers for additional security measures.

The lawsuits that sparked this thread involved passengers already on board who were removed due to crewmembers feeling uncomfortable with them. We are very quick to criticize the federal government for knee-jerk reactions yet that is exactly what some crewmembers are guilty of themselves.

 

[list2002]

MIDDLE AGED WHITE MALE

I have been screened both by security before the gates and security prior to boarding... shoes off, hat off, through bags, take off belt, lift shirt. 3 out of 3 interisland flights in hawaii, both ways round trip, and my latest trip from HNL to JAX. Maybe because I'm in my late twenties, I've seen families as well. It affects my life as well, those guys should be appologized to, but you KNOW they are gonna get more than a few tickets if comped. Be American, understand what was taking place at the time. I took my licks and share of animosity growing up in Hawaii because I was white, but it was worth it to live there.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Gotta go with the masses on this one. I've flown commercial six times since 9/11 and been searched just about each time. 33 years old, white male. I'm relatively liberal compared to the piloting community and I'd agree there has to be some profiling, not to mention some upgrades on the personnel doing to profiling.

Flew back from SFO last Saturday night on a red-eye and heard someone being asked to step aside going thru security behind me. Looked back and saw about a 65 year old woman with a "why in the world" look on her face. We both looked at each other and shook our heads laughing. Really a farce.

Had my bagged searched numerous times, always containing flight manuals, jepps books for studying and haven't ever received a question. One of the instances I was being searched by four girls, roughly no older than 20 or so who spoke in spanish throughout the time of the search. I really wasn't surprised that they didn't raise an eyebrow at any of the reading materials in my bag. I do believe I heard some references to Menudo however.


Mr. I.

 

[Tim47SIP]

TWA Dude

You wrote ""Profiling" refers to selecting certain categories of passengers for additional security measures.

The lawsuits that sparked this thread involved passengers already on board who were removed due to crewmembers feeling uncomfortable with them. We are very quick to criticize the federal government for knee-jerk reactions yet that is exactly what some crewmembers are guilty of themselves."

You know the shoe bomber was already on board, went through security on two seperate days, and guess who caught him. A suspecting flight crew. You know for a fact our security system is a farce. Any new hijacker or bomber will figure out a way to bypass the system, and it will be - guess who? The flight crew or passengers that will hopefully stop the individual/s.

Please don't tell me that we have to live through a few more bombings before we take actions needed now - read: profiling!

 

[eriknorth]

HELLO...ARE YOU STUPID....COFFEE=HOT

Ever seen that Celebrity Jeopardy on SNL with "Ricky Martin" and the hot tea? It's HOT HOT HOT! The question was "Is the HOT tea HOT or cold?" Then "Keanu's" reply was "is it iced tea?". When "Trebek" said no, Keanu responded with, "well then I have no idea."

That's about the funniest skit I've ever seen. Some people are just about at this level, though. I'm done now.

 

[TWA Dude]

Re: TWA Dude

You know the shoe bomber was already on board, went through security on two seperate days, and guess who caught him. A suspecting flight crew.

I guess I agree with you here: any passenger lighting their shoes should be profiled.

Please don't tell me that we have to live through a few more bombings before we take actions needed now - read: profiling!

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm not talking about profiling. This thread is about innocent people that appeared Middle-Eastern that were removed from airplanes because at the time people were scared and paranoid. Whether or not they're subjected to extra security before boarding is a separate issue which I've haven't even addressed.

 

[Visceral]

Re: Hey Visceral..

Profiling is a necessity, and as I watched the Twin Towers fall from my roof in Brooklyn, I knew idiots like you would be whining in your friggin coffee about the profiling that would take place. When the terrorist attacks are almost all routinely made by men of MIDDLE EASTERN descent, who the hell should we be looking for????? You and your p***Ywhipped buddies should open up your eyes and smell reality. Maybe we wouldn't have has the 9/11 attacks if a**holes like you shut your traps and let the government do their jobs with out the fear of reprecussion lawsuits and ACLU s**theads dragging in lawsuits over stopping terrorists and their lawyers from f**king us again.
And if FL000 thinks his granny might be dangerous, hell, throw her on the profile list. But not before you, Visceral.

So many of you had inputs on this.
Snoop,
I wish you wouldn't call me vulgar names...or at least attempt to. You are right. Everybody of Middle Eastern descent is a terrorist. By the way, that guy who bombed the hell out of the federal building in OK, wasn't he from the Middle East too? Hell, we should shut the borders of the USA to anyone who is from the Middle East right? And what do you mean "let the government do their jobs without fear of repercussions. " I don't think the Constitution would agree in spirit with you there. I know everyone is angry and the easiest way to target that anger is to start grouping people....he's jewish, he's catholic, ect, but this country is above that.

BritPilot,
I'm not in the airline industry, I'm in the military and I've been flying/fighting for my country recently. So regardless of what you say, I'm putting my life on the line in a much more tangible way every day in places that I'd rather not be. Despite this, I don't want the freedoms we the military are supposed to be defending to only be applicable only to certain groups.

 

[Visceral]

Let me first say that I have not been searched by any airport or airline security and I am not an airline crewmember so I can't identify with their complaints.

Nor am I a minority who has been discriminated against (perceived or actual) by the airlines or anybody else.

When we microscope the situation and see things only in terms of our own selfish wants and comforts we lose the big picture. As a law abiding American I wouldn't mind being searched if it is in the process of helping thwart future criminals etc. I would hope that any true American (African, Asian, Muslim, Hispanic, WASP etc.) would want the security people at the airports and elsewhere to be able to catch criminals and do their part to aid them. Nobody wants to be searched and inconvenienced. But if you are a minority and a concerned human being don't assume you are being racially profiled and stir up trouble for the airlines and others. Do your duty and let yourself be searched calmly realizing you are contributing to an environment of safety for yourself and other passengers. Unless, you have something to hide.

I know the civil liberties proponants will not like this post but don't get me started. If you are not doing anything wrong, you should have nothing to hide.

I agree with almost 100% of what you typed. However, search me 10 times if you have to, but don't remove me from the flight simpy because I have a turban and you don't. That's allegedly what happened....they were removed from the flight.

 

[Britpilot]

Re: Re: Hey Visceral..

.

BritPilot,
I'm not in the airline industry, I'm in the military and I've been flying/fighting for my country recently. So regardless of what you say, I'm putting my life on the line in a much more tangible way every day in places that I'd rather not be. Despite this, I don't want the freedoms we the military are supposed to be defending to only be applicable only to certain groups.

How more tangible is having your aircraft hijacked and flown into a building? That is what we are trying to prevent and the reason you are where you are now.
I personally thank you for the job you are doing. If they would not say I was too old then I would be there also in my old job in the military. However you missed the point of my post, myself, my fellow flight crews and our passengers ARE AT RISK due to the pathetic waste of time security currently being adopted in our airports. We MUST profile and not waste our time screening people that do not fit the profile.
It is a complete waste of time to screen flight crews in the manner in which it is now being conducted. Also a complete waste of time to screen Grandma as she passes through the gate AFTER she has already been screened at security. You as a military person should realize that this is war and there is no place here to be politically correct.
I say again I am most concerned with the safety of my crew and passengers and this is NOT being addressed by the federal govenment or these dumb law suits.
No ones freedoms are being lost, it can be said that those very feedoms that allowed these people into the country are to blame for the loss of 3000 lives. Stay safe.

 

[Visceral]

I was watching the Discovery channel one night, and I think the the Brits have a far better way of dealing with this than the way we are currently doing it. The program said certain terminals in Heathrow use facial scanners that access databases of known threats to look for trouble. Supposedly it can recognize features even through disguises. Since it seems we (CIA) knew about many of these guys before Sep 11, this technology had huge potential in identifying them when they entered the airports. Much more so than Joe Schmo. Brit Pilot, I don't argue with you when you say the crews should not be screened like they are. But for all else, if you are innocent, the technology makes more sense to me.

 

[pilot141]

Ok, late jumping into the discussion but here it goes:

TWADude: I agree with what you say, but some of these lawsuits are being brought by the ACLU and NOT the plaintiff (ie the Secret Service guy who got denied boarding [rightly, in my opinion] in Baltimore), is not party to this suit, but since he's of Arab descent the ACLU has taken up his cause. And, of course, everything gets blown out of proportion. Two weeks after Sep 11th some flight attendant is nervous about two guys getting on her flight. She raises the flag, the captain says "prove they're OK", the paperwork is slow to arrive, and the flight is approaching push-back time. Instead of delaying hundreds of passengers the captain elects to leave these two men behind and leave on time. The men are put on the next flight after proof arrives that they are not terrorists. This is the basis for the lawsuits.
If these guys are entitled to anything its a $300 pass on whatever airline they missed their flight on - and nothing more.

As for the application of resources debate, I think there is definite room for improvement. Remember when the TSA first actually took over security and told AA, DAL, CAL, UAL and others that "special" (read: "shorter lines") checkpoints for premium passengers violated some imagined law? Is that the same law that says a $1,500 first class seat should be the same as a $99 super-saver seat? For some really interesting reading and an actual new, amazing perspective on this, go to:

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27846

No plugs here, just a new view on what we're all discussing here.

BTW, TWADude, I got bumped from the 727 to the MD-80 as well.

Long live the Mad Dog! (Not!)

 

[waka]

Juicy string. I have to go with the ACLU. There was absoltuely no justification for ejecting these folks from the plane. It is apparent that emotions, not logic, drove the crew's decisions.

TWA Dude and Viceral couldn't have said it better.

 

[Snoop]

Visceral...

Sorry about the names, but McVeigh was an oddity. The MAJORITY of terrorist acts were perpetrated by men of MIDDLE EASTERN descent. Therefore, to profile tourists and immigrants that fit this is **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** reasonable. I may have gone a bit far with letting the government do whatever comment, I would rather have someone thrown off a plane that my mom is on than have some whimpering ACLU keep him on and fly the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** plane into a building. My passengers have rights, and none of them involve killing them.

 

[dav8or]

Hey I've always wanted to be a NBA star, anyone got the ACLU's # I think I have a case.

 

[TWA Dude]

TWADude: I agree with what you say, but some of these lawsuits are being brought by the ACLU and NOT the plaintiff (ie the Secret Service guy who got denied boarding [rightly, in my opinion] in Baltimore), is not party to this suit, but since he's of Arab descent the ACLU has taken up his cause. And, of course, everything gets blown out of proportion.

141: There's no doubt that the Secret Service guy got hot in the collar and deserved to get booted, yet it was his Arab appearance that arroused "suspicion" in the first place. I also agree that the ACLU does blow things out of proportion sometimes and also goes for high-profile cases leaving the little guys behind -- as if the right-wingers are any different.

To no one in particular:
We need to keep our eye on the big picture here. We all know that most of the terrorism today is Arab or Muslim but that doesn't justify what amounts to collective punishment, which is a war crime. If one wishes to be supicious of Arabs on their plane then go right on ahead; keep an eye on them. But before booting them off try to use the same standards we used before 9/11. Whatever security profiling is to take place needs to be done before they board. Even El Al has to let suspicious pax on board when they can find nothing bad in their records -- but then they just put a marshall nearby. We do need to improve our security measures but we need to be smart and not emotional.

 

[trigeek]

While I don't agree with booting a passenger off just because they appear to be of Middle Eastern descent, I am certainly in favor of profiling. Like it or not, there IS a pattern here.

Side note; as for turbins, I see many more Indians and Pakistanis wearing turbins than I do Saudi's, Iraqi's, or Iranians. Gross generalizations out of ignorance will get any of us in trouble very quickly. How many on this board truly know the difference between an Iraqi, Iranian, or a Saudi? There are signifigant differences. Food for thought.

And for the record, I'm just a redneck from Texas.