Disband the AF

[GCD]

http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,154578,00.html?ESRC=dod.nl

Interesting read.

 

[dtfl]

http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,154578,00.html?ESRC=dod.nl

Interesting read.

Ridiculous. If that were to happen - we would be back to the old days of overlapping capabilities (which means more needless $ spent) and pissing contests about which service is supported with regards to airpower - the service parochialisms and rivalries would take us two steps back.

 

[McGillicutty]

Did DaveGriffin write this article?

 

[Deuce130]

http://warisboring.com/?page_id=2

Just another hack trying to meet the weekly deadline. More interested in making arguments sound good in writing than in portraying facts. The AF will disband the same day the Navy and the IRS will. I wouldn't waste any more time talking about it.

 

[DaveGriffin]

Did DaveGriffin write this article?

Finally, the leading DOD Think Tank is getting serious about the future direction of the US Armed Services and has released some of our early critical recommendations to a defense industry reporter.

The biggest downside of disbanding the AF will be the loss of the traditional rivalry for the CinC Trophy. After Zoomie school is rebranded Naval Academy West, Naval Aviation Officer Development Program, we will only have a two way battle for the incredibly important and prestigious Commander-in-Chief's Trophy.

 

[GCD]

Here is the article the first one gives reference to.

Both guys seem to swing on the liberal side of politics.

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=abolish_the_air_force

Personally, I don't think we need to disband the Air Force, but we sure need to have each service in controll of their own intra-theater airlift. The AF stinks at this job.

We need 130 C-27's for the Army!

 

[GCD]

General: Switching JCA to USAF Would Hike Costs

Oct 19, 2007

Michael Fabey/Aerospace Daily & Defense Report

Gen. Richard Cody, Army vice chief of staff, says turning the Joint Cargo Aircraft (JCA) program into a single acquisition and operation platform under the Air Force would mean significant cost increases.

Cody spoke in response to questions from Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.), chairman of the Armed Services Committee.

Cody also sent Levin a copy of the Oct. 9 appeal to restore authorization for JCA funding to the Army aircraft procurement account.

"A switch to a single service will necessitate a significant and time-consuming update to all documentation and could possibly result in Nunn-McCurdy implications," Cody said in his mid-October letter.

When Pentagon program cost increases exceed a certain set amount, the services have to notify Congress they have breached so-called Nunn-McCurdy limits.

Levin had asked the Army to explain the need for a joint JCA program.

"Program documentation and activities to date have been based on an Army-led joint process. If this program were to revert to an Air Force only program, the validity of these documents and decisions will come into question," Cody wrote. "Additionally, there are three primary areas of near-term focus that will delay the program if a service switch is made. These three areas are: the acquisition program execution and documentation; the test program; and the training/fielding activity."

The Army is also currently providing 75 percent of the acquisition execution personnel, Cody pointed out. It will take "upwards of a year" for the Air Force to get the necessary staff in place to replace the Army force.

"The documentation is of particular importance with respect to the acquisition approach," Cody wrote. "This documentation ... defines the acquisition program baseline. This baseline is currently defined with the program being an Army-centric activity joint program." Cody also said the testing is now scheduled around Army processes, procedures and resources.

Cody said the key operational differences between Army and Air Force JCA fleets would not be in the airframe, but in how the aircraft would be used.

The Air Force would use the aircraft to supplement C-130s and other overall airlift needs. The Army is responsible for getting materials and service members to the last tactical mile -- where speed, not necessarily efficiency, is of the utmost importance. Many of the JCA missions would be executed with 24 hours notice or less, Cody said.

 

[ExAF]

Waste of bandwidth

I can't believe this is a thread. Complete waste of bandwidth. At least nobody quoted Dave Griffin so I didn't have to read his drivel. I love the ignore function.

 

[JungleJett]

I can't believe this is a thread. Complete waste of bandwidth. At least nobody quoted Dave Griffin so I didn't have to read his drivel. I love the ignore function.

It is a wonderful thing. If I wanted to hear some senseless, weapons grade drivel, I would tune in to a Hillary press conference.

 

[Jafo73]

what I find funny it all this crap is no one ever mentions the loss of lift that would occur if they got rid of the AF

 

[puck_11]

Hmm...Navy fighters can't fly very far from the boat without tankers. Marine fighters can't get overseas without a tanker. As fun as it is to bash the AF, we need em, and this article was retarded.

There's an article in this months Playboy stating that the AF should quit spending all of their money on the fast, cool looking fighters when its old school bombers are dropping 80% of the ordinance. Apparently we don't need the fighters anymore.

 

[dtfl]

Here is the article the first one gives reference to.

Both guys seem to swing on the liberal side of politics.

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=abolish_the_air_force

Personally, I don't think we need to disband the Air Force, but we sure need to have each service in controll of their own intra-theater airlift. The AF stinks at this job.

We need 130 C-27's for the Army!

The AF stinks at theater airlift? Really? Interesting as the SCHEDULED airlift (vs on-demand) is an ARMY REQUIREMENT!!!!
Tell your Army to decide what they want and when and it will be there.....

 

[GCD]

I know the AF sucks at intra-theater lift. I was there 12 months covering the airlift, so I know first-hand.

We need the C-27J so we can do the job right.

 

[DaveGriffin]

Hmm...Navy fighters can't fly very far from the boat without tankers. Marine fighters can't get overseas without a tanker. As fun as it is to bash the AF, we need em, and this article was retarded.

There's an article in this months Playboy stating that the AF should quit spending all of their money on the fast, cool looking fighters when its old school bombers are dropping 80% of the ordinance. Apparently we don't need the fighters anymore.

There is no choice but to disband the AF due to the extreme manning cutbacks required to be able to pay for their F-22s. After all the F-22s come on line there will be no one left to operate or maintain them.

We can't get rid of the tankers, we need tankers. We will split them up between the Navy, Marines and Army. I know the Navy P-3 guys will be happy to have an airplane to fly since they won't be getting many MMAs.

 

[Deuce130]

Why not disband the USMC as well? Talk about overlapping roles and missions there. I could buy disbanding the AF and the Marine Corps, rolling it all into the Army and calling it a day. Of course, the geniuses at HQ would just mothball everything, buy a bunch of unarmored vehicles and complain about being too bloated to do anything. Army generals can be just as stupid and dorked up as AF ones anyday. They've been in charge of the Iraq war since day one and still haven't figured out how to win it.

 

[GCD]

Without compromising OPSEC, take a guess who does the majority of the intra-theater airlift....it ain't the AF. I know because I've been there and done that, got two t-shirts and hash marks for my sleeve.

I guess there should be an AF. They should keep their bombers, some tankers and missles...and give all of the fighters and some tankers to the Navy and USMC, turn-over the A-10 to the people it should have gone to...US Army (it was designed as a tank buster and it would be really cool to have close air support for the infantry and tanks without going through the BS), and intra-theater airlift to the customers... Army and USMC.

I didn't mention the inter-theater airlift because the majority of that is already contracted out, (it keeps me employed) and coming soon in an airspace near you...contactor air-refueling.

 

[Oh-ryan]

AF sucks at intra-theater airlift. I can't attest to their ability to get heavy equipment in and out of country, but it took almost 2 weeks of waiting on the Space-A list to get me the he11 out of Balad- and that's what it's all about. Me. Me and me.

 

[GCD]

You should have gone to the Sherpa Air Ops. They would have got you you you out.

 

[dtfl]

Without compromising OPSEC, take a guess who does the majority of the intra-theater airlift....it ain't the AF. I know because I've been there and done that, got two t-shirts and hash marks for my sleeve.

I guess there should be an AF. They should keep their bombers, some tankers and missles...and give all of the fighters and some tankers to the Navy and USMC, turn-over the A-10 to the people it should have gone to...US Army (it was designed as a tank buster and it would be really cool to have close air support for the infantry and tanks without going through the BS), and intra-theater airlift to the customers... Army and USMC.

I didn't mention the inter-theater airlift because the majority of that is already contracted out, (it keeps me employed) and coming soon in an airspace near you...contactor air-refueling.

Who DOES the majority of intra-theater airlift then...let me guess you are going to say UH1d and 60s...ok...if you want to count airlift from FOB to the FLOT 2 miles away..ok.
AND Id be willing to bet my new car there is more mil airlift (INTER-theater) than commercial...shall we call TACC and ask? No...because Im right. You see a very small part of it.

 

[dtfl]

I know the AF sucks at intra-theater lift. I was there 12 months covering the airlift, so I know first-hand.

We need the C-27J so we can do the job right.

AGAIN...the scheduled airlift is an ARMY requirement - so look yourself in the face.
If you are going to complain, tell us HOW the AF sucks, and how it can be repaired? Let me guess - the scheduled airlift is extremely in-efficient. You are right. Stop asking for it then!!!
Asking for the Army to get fixed wing aircraft to "fix" this problem isn't going to make it better. Why? because then the damn ARMY will request scheduled airlift with C27s just like they do with the AF C130s. I dunno what Army you are in, but the one I provided CAS to (first job) then airlift to is not an Army of rocket scientists when it comes to scheduling anything. The AF has slcik 130s flying around empty - because the DIRMOBFOR says so...because the theater CC says so..because the supported force...ie..Army...wants scheduled airlift.