Disband the AF

[millhouse21]

You should have gone to the Sherpa Air Ops. They would have got you you you out.

When I was trying to get out out of Balad the Sherpas were weight limited every flight. No space-A pax got on.

 

[DaveGriffin]

I dunno what Army you are in, but the one I provided CAS to (first job) then airlift to is not an Army of rocket scientists when it comes to scheduling anything. The AF has slcik 130s flying around empty - because the DIRMOBFOR says so...because the theater CC says so..because the supported force...ie..Army...wants scheduled airlift.

The new COIN doctrine developed and executed by the Army & Marines, which intentionally minimizes AF tacair participation, has been remarkably successful. Over the past 2 months there has been little work for the F-16 guys and they are getting pissy.

The recent availability of gps guided artillery and rockets has allowed the grunts to take more responsibility for their own needs, rather than having to deal with AF bs and time delays when calling in support.

You can call the grunts dumb, but they are doing a great job, operating more independently and executing a strategy that is seeing the results we need, thank you very much. Now that we have the AF back operating as as support service, as they should have always been, we will achieve success faster.

 

[GCD]

dtlf,

That goes to show how up-to-date you aren't.

We haven't had UH-1D's since 1970's...the 60's are not considered in the intra-theater airlift. That's a different category. I'm talking fixed wing aircraft intra-theater airlift.

millhouse21,

Sorry, when I was there we put everyone on we possibly could. The weight limitation is exactly why we need the C-27J to do the job right.

 

[millhouse21]

GCD,

No worries. It was nice to have that option (sort of) available. Thanks!

 

[GCD]

dtfl,

Sorry, but you are incorrect again.

The Army would like scheduled airlift, yes...but the AF makes it impossible to put anything on those airplanes because of a 24 hour request requirement. That's why there are empty C-130's flying around.

Here is a lesson in tactics...The Army and USMC is very much reactionary in decision making because of changing battle conditions, therefore, a field commander may need something RIGHT NOW! However, the inflexible AF says...no, we need 24 hour notification to put anything on our airplanes.

Don't tell us this is BS, because it is absolutely the truth. In fact, the AF BS cut its own nuts when I was there.

One example: An AF C-130 was AOG. Another C-130 was going from point A to point B (OPSEC consideration), where the AOG C-130 was (and the C-130 going was practically empty). Maintenance folks asked the C-130 Aircrat Commander if they could put AOG parts on his 130 to take to point B...AC says heck yes...The AF dispatcher...whatever he is called in the AF...refused to let them carry the AOG parts because there was not a 24 hour notification for the parts. True story from the mouth of the C-130 AC to my personal ears when we were hanging around at point B.

So, that is why there are so many Army "no shows." The stuff that has to go NOW, goes by Army C-23 because we don't need no stinking 24 hour notice.

And I am sorry for the Space A folks. We try to take you, but when a feild commander (Army, Navy, USMC or even AF) says he needs something, or there is a need for blood, we get it there. That's the Army way. That why the Army needs the C-27J.

Oh, one more thing, I think I understand the big picture of inter-theater transport, as well.

I have made three round trips down range and back from another point, and a C-5 sitting in the same parking space it was in when we started on day one. Let me see...it takes five days to do three down-range and back trips. Tell me how efficient that C-5 was.

Now, I am so sorry that you think I insulted your AF, and that you think Army Officers are of less inteligence than AF Officers. BUT, THAT thinking is the same thinking that makes the AF the worst enemy in theater, over the insurgents. The AF is totally uncooperative, the most self indulgent and most self promoting service in modern militaries...oh, except how the Luftwaffe was with Ghoering, and see where that got them. Just a little cooperation between the AF and the rest of the services would go a long-long way, and the AF wouldn't be so despised by the other services. The Curt LeMay Air Force or no force thinking is gone...over. Olive branch extended for cooperation...Out here for now.

 

[ExAF]

GCD...What a ****************************** bag.
Oh well...censored. It rhymes with woosh.

 

[Hobit]

GCD...What a ****************************** bag.
Oh well...censored. It rhymes with woosh.

And you were in theater when?...

Thought so.

STFU until you can talk with experience NANCY

 

[Pistlpetet]

The new COIN doctrine developed and executed by the Army & Marines, which intentionally minimizes AF tacair participation, has been remarkably successful. Over the past 2 months there has been little work for the F-16 guys and they are getting pissy.

The recent availability of gps guided artillery and rockets has allowed the grunts to take more responsibility for their own needs, rather than having to deal with AF bs and time delays when calling in support.

You can call the grunts dumb, but they are doing a great job, operating more independently and executing a strategy that is seeing the results we need, thank you very much. Now that we have the AF back operating as as support service, as they should have always been, we will achieve success faster.

Change your Quote to "Registered FAKE"

 

[Deuce130]

And you were in theater when?...

Thought so.

STFU until you can talk with experience NANCY

I was there. It's obvious to me that GCD has a bigger axe to grind than just inter or intra theater airlift, which isn't perfect but is still pretty good. If he wants, he can also rant about the miserable state of the war, the continued success of the insurgents, or the the combined inability to prevent IEDs/VBIEDs from killing our troops. THOSE failures seem to be a bigger issue than someone not being able to Space A home (who the he!! goes over there without a way home, btw?). He sprinkles his arguments with lots of snide remarks and other anti-AF BS, which dilutes his points. Seems he's really just pissed off at AF types in general.

 

[ExAF]

And you were in theater when?...

Thought so.

STFU until you can talk with experience NANCY

I was there the first time around. Sorry, but my 20 years of flying was up before the second round started and I had to pass the job on to "doosh bags" like you (Mary) and GCD.

 

[Hobit]

I was there the first time around. Sorry, but my 20 years of flying was up before the second round started and I had to pass the job on to "doosh bags" like you (Mary) and GCD.

So Nancy, I gather from what you are saying is that you have no experience at all in the current situation? And I can infer that you never flew a lift aircraft either?! hmmm, attack the messenger (GCD) not the argument. I believe the applicable quote is: "Poverty of expression."

GCD has what you DON'T-Experience in case you lost track. All you can do is step in and call him names like a school girl. Pathetic and lame

If you want to have a cat fight and pull hair go do it to someone else.

edit: Thanks for the insult too. Did you learn that from your teenager? If you knew GCD, you wouldn't have insulted him. I appreciate being painted in the same light as him even if by a idiot, so thanks.

 

[McGillicutty]

And you were in theater when?...

Thought so.

STFU until you can talk with experience NANCY

Just got back from OEF a few weeks ago. GCD is a moron.

 

[ExAF]

You Are Welcome

So Nancy, I gather from what you are saying is that you have no experience at all in the current situation? And I can infer that you never flew a lift aircraft either?! hmmm, attack the messenger (GCD) not the argument. I believe the applicable quote is: "Poverty of expression."

GCD has what you DON'T-Experience in case you lost track. All you can do is step in and call him names like a school girl. Pathetic and lame

If you want to have a cat fight and pull hair go do it to someone else.

edit: Thanks for the insult too. Did you learn that from your teenager? If you knew GCD, you wouldn't have insulted him. I appreciate being painted in the same light as him even if by a idiot, so thanks.

First of all Mary, you have no clue what experience I might have regarding airlift. A little time on the IG team gave me enough experience with airlift to know when someone is being a dooshbag. No I never flew anything with a C in front of it. I never wanted to fly anything in the AF that you couldn't get into from the top, but that isn't a prerequisite for making an observation. GCD has an axe to grind and it shows. After all he is the one that started the thread and then followed up with "The Air Force Stinks at this job." As far as stepping in, I doubt he needs you to step in for him. Are you the head cheerleader or something. Feeling a little inadequate? You were the first to start the cat fight with the childish girls name. Unfortunately, I just followed suit. I may not have boots on the ground experience in the "current situation," but I have plenty of AF and Army friends that have very current experience and they paint a very different story that GCDs. Since I know them and as you pointed out, I don't know GCD, I'll stick with their version of current operations. If you like being painted in the same light, OK, you are a dooshbag to. "Poverty of Exresstion?" No, I just calls them like I sees them. Cheers...ExAF

 

[GCD]

I was there. It's obvious to me that GCD has a bigger axe to grind than just inter or intra theater airlift, which isn't perfect but is still pretty good. If he wants, he can also rant about the miserable state of the war, the continued success of the insurgents, or the the combined inability to prevent IEDs/VBIEDs from killing our troops. THOSE failures seem to be a bigger issue than someone not being able to Space A home (who the he!! goes over there without a way home, btw?). He sprinkles his arguments with lots of snide remarks and other anti-AF BS, which dilutes his points. Seems he's really just pissed off at AF types in general.

No, I'm not p'd off at all. I have no axe to grind.

Who goes over without a way home? Very small units have to go Space A. I know this for a fact because I helped a 10 member medical unit get out of town.

You can continue the personal attacks, now.

 

[GCD]

Oh, one other thing...this is not Army v AF issue. I admire the AF for what they are able to do. I even encouraged my daughter to go AF.

She swore in on 31 Jul and I am a proud AF Dad.

This is simply a matter of right and wrong in roles, and which role is right for the mission. I believe we (US Army) need to get the C-27 to do our mission the right way, with more capability than the C-23.

OK, slam me with more personal attacks...my shoulders are broad. I can take it.

Oh, yes, a point of grammar...ExAF...too is not to in your post. I figured since you are Ex AF you would know that. You know, you AF types are so much smarter than we Army pounders.

I actually think the discussion has gone way of hot-heads, unable to make a good argument to counter what I have brought to the table for discussion.

I'll not entertain anymore hot-headed, personal attacks.

 

[Mud Eagle]

OK, slam me with more personal attacks...my shoulders are broad. I can take it.

<SNIP>

I'll not entertain anymore hot-headed, personal attacks.

Wow, a flip flop faster than Mitt Romney -- in the same post!!

 

[WNC Flyer]

Without compromising OPSEC, take a guess who does the majority of the intra-theater airlift....it ain't the AF.

How do you justify this? Are you talking tons of cargo, amount of vehicles, or # of pax? Comparing sortie counts isn't very accurate...How many chopper flights does it take to equal 1 Herc? C-17 or C-5?

I would gladly give the Army every intra-theater mission I've ever flown and will fly, but I don't see this happening anytime soon. W/O regurgitating too much PME, didn't our dads and granddads create the AF for a reason?

 

[ExAF]

Oh, yes, a point of grammar...ExAF...too is not to in your post. I figured since you are Ex AF you would know that. You know, you AF types are so much smarter than we Army pounders.

BRILLIANT RETORT! You got me there. Yes I do know that. Next time I'm posting on a layover at midnight, I'll be sure to take more time to really carefully proof my FI post. Wouldn't want to give the Army braintrust a leg up on the AF. What was I thinking. I love it when they resort to spelling and grammar corrections.

PS. I was also a Jump FAC while in the AF and have spent enough time with the Army to know the ropes. I don't look down on the Army or think they are dumb and uneducated. Was not commenting on the Army, just your thread and your cheerleader's remarks.

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
Disbanding the USAF is an absurd proposal. The present war-fighting, space and support missions perfromed by the USAF are vital to the security and defense of our nation. What really needs to be addressed is managment, leadership, R&D/Procurement policy, etc...ad nauseum.
I am retired Navy, and my Dad was a retired USAF LCOL and pilot for 26 years. So, I have some interest in anything that would effect his beloved Air Force and the one that "assisted" in my upbringing. Putting aside any bias, it makes as much sense to disband the Air Force as having the Navy mothball all our aircraft carriers.
Speaking of aircraft carriers. Do any of you realize the amount of money, logistical support and the complex infrastructure required to keep a CVBG at-sea? The CVBG is still at the tip of the spear, however, with a trend toward more space-based sensors, TBMD and UAVs in the war on terror. How does the CVBG stack up against an in-theatre USAF expediationary wing? I think that one can make arguments for and against both. My assertion is that the we NEED BOTH. We also need the amphibious capabilities of a Marine Expeditionary Unit.
Keep in mind ladies and gentleman that while we are focus on the war on terror. Our former Russian "allies" and number one trade partner China are still building capability into their military. We WILL have to address this sooner than later, if we know what is good for us. Our leadership has really taken their eyes off the ball in critical war-fighting skills. USW(ASW) being of prime importance in dealing with our potential enemies.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[Phrogboy]

Can't we all just get along...

That being said, I would love to land the C-5 on a carrier... once.