Did I bust a Reg?

[FlyinBrian]

A little off topic: It's a good idea to go "hang out" in the tower when you get the opportunity. You really get an appreciation for what they do and why they hate certain behaviors. Since September 11th, you can't just ring the bell and go on up anymore. I beleive you must have an appointment. Anyway, I knew the controllers on a first name basis, and it made me a much better pilot when I learned what I could do to make their job easier.

Our controllers were also VERY cool. The tower manager kept them on a short leash, but they loved him. It was a very well run tower, and probably the most helpful group of controllers anywhere.

We would phone them before doing touch and goes and ask for a go-around on our 3rd landing. They'd do it right on short short final. It was a great simulation for pre-solo students. Except when they'd forget and ask us if we wanted a go around the next time. Kind of spoiled the surprise.

 

[clrd4takeoff]

ASRS Report

The previous post are right concerning the ASRS report. I looked it up in my aviation law book. Go ahead and get a copy from your nearest FSDO (or online, if you can find it) ,fill it out and send it in. It must be completed and sent to NASA within 10 days of the occurence. The good thing is the FAA can't request it! So this would be a little insurance even though nobody probably cares about the whole incident anyway. Better to be safe than sorry.

I bet it is fun flyin out there with the F-14's!

Let me know if I can help any further.

This is a good book! General Aviation Law (practical flying series)
2nd edition
Jerry A. Eichenberger

 

[rumpletumbler]

I would think that something like this would only be pursued if the person on duty etc. just had a burr in the wrong spot or it caused another aircraft a problem.

RT

 

[flywithastick]

I had a strange deal like this in the Houston Cl B a year or so ago. I left Hobby for Ellington. Got to the perimeter of the B and was told to contact EFD twr. When I contacted them ,they had no idea who I was. Asked me if I knew I had just left Cl B airspace.

I told them I was VFR with departure out of HOU. They were pretty busy, so I threw in an appology for the confusion. I got to land & never heard any more about it. It was a busy afternoon and I'm sure departure just dumped me off to EFD without telling them first.

 

[ILLINI]

I wouldn't worry about a NASA form following you around for the rest of your career. These forms are completely anonomys and the FAA, or anybody else for that matter, cannot use them against you. NASA gathers the information from these forms to try to imporve safety. Some people reference these NASA forms to a "get out of jail free" card. There are of course limitations on the use of these forms. For example you could not illegally smuggle drugs in from Mexico in your airplane and then fill out a NASA form and get away with it! Read up on this topic some more so you can learn more about it. Don't wait too long on filling one out though... like others have said you only have 10 days from the day of the occurance. I would relax if I were you. I seriously doubt anything will come of this from what you have posted here. Like I said before, 95% of the time, the controllers will let you know if you are in trouble. This was just a learning experience for you.

 

[tarp]

Cookmg:

Good thread and something that I think other "new" pilots wonder about.

1.) Like everyone else said file a "NASA" report even if just for the fun of the experience. Remember, there is a reason it's called a NASA report - the personal information is held between you and NASA. NASA is NOT the FAA! Your information will remain confidential unless the act you report is such a serious infraction that you do not qualify for immunity. That said, no one in your future will ever see that you filed this report. To date, I've probably filed something like 20 NASA reports for all kinds of things from stupid mistakes on my part to outright near-air collisions caused by ATC errors. The FAA gets the contents of your report (without your name) and it goes into a great big safety database. Do your fellow pilots a favor and file the report. Oh and I'm with a 121 carrier and just filed a NASA report the other day. Best insurance policy a pilot can have.

2.) On the Class B / Class D thing, it needs a NASA report because it is something that ATC does to us pilots all the time. They have "turf wars" over airspace and we lose. Philly Class B and Wilmington Class D is a good example. Philly will often drop you on ILG's doorstep and just say contact tower. You merrily fly on into Class D thinking they've affected a handoff and get chewed out by tower who doesn't know a thing about you. Pilots get lulled into a sense of ease on this stuff because the ATC guys "normally" take care of us. But when they are having a bad day, WE can become the fall guys.

3.) On the fear of future implications, I think you fear too much. This is not the interview breaker - this is just good experience and I think you should pat yourself on the back for having recognized the potential problem and being very astute about airspace regulations. I'm not wishing anything bad on you, but most us have far larger skeletons in our closet and still manage to survive the interview process. A lot of folks think they need to go to an interview with a squeaky clean resume and background. Got to tell you, if the airlines only hired folks with perfect records, there'd only be about 18 pilots in the hiring pool. People bend metal, do young and stupid things that teenagers and college kids do, they break regs, they fail checkrides and yet they still seem to get hired. A good pilot is always learning. Judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from surviving bad judgement. Go figure.

 

[GopherEvertt?]

Most controllers are not out to bust every pilot that has incurred a minor infraction. The ones that get busted are the ones that blatantly bust a reg. eg: flying through a particular airspace without attempting to contact anyone. You made an effort to do it properly. I don't think anyone would make sure you were busted for that.

 

[Timebuilder]

My two cents:

What you are looking at here is the difference between the standards used to define "communication" for class D and class C airspace.

As soon as the class D controller communicated with you, and did NOT tell you to remain clear of the class D airspace, you were covered. The key is to make that call to the Delta controller before you enter his airspace.

Most of what was discussed above applies to the more stringent requirements of class C airspace. There, the controller must address you by your tail number or callsign for your entry, or may say "aircraft calling Allentown stand by", or "N32B remain clear of the class Charley" in which case you may NOT enter.

Case in point: not long ago, I had to fly VFR into Caldwell, and I used radar advisories from Allentown and New York approach. The New York controller waited until I was almost ready to turn downwind for landing befrore he cut me loose to Caldwell tower. After a phone call (not at the tower's request, we volunteered) we discovered that this is something that NY does very frequently, much to Caldwell's chagrin.

Lesson learned: use the other pilot, and the second radio, to alert the class D controller to what is happening, and that the controller for the overlying airspace is working you for traffic separation. (Important note: he was not "providing separation" he was advising me and the other traffic so WE could "provide separation")

No violation for you, cookmg.

 

[BigFlyr]

I say don't sweat it if the controllers didn't say anything to indicate otherwise... Once a particular action is questioned by a controller though... yeah... you might want to file the ol' NASA report just in case. IMHO.

 

[flyhi]

NASA form

Are you an AOPA member? If so, you can either print a NASA form from their website or call the 800 number and they will fax you one. They are very helpful.

Good Luck

 

[ShawnC]

File a NASA report to CYA, but don't worry about it. The controller probally didn't even notice, most class Delta's don't legaly have radar, all they have is a D Bright display, which is (according to my controller friend), not legally allowed to be used except for SA.

My friend also tells that, controllers hate to write you up its more paperwork for them. Most calls are scoldings unless you did something seriously wrong, and on purpose.