Did I bust a Reg?

[cookmg]

Hey Guys.

I'm having trouble getting a complete explaination of what to do in this situation. In fact, from discussing this with other pilots, I'm not sure whether I violated an FAR or not.

Flying south, VFR, towards a busy Class D airport, one must fly around (takes awhile), above (not practical), or through Class B airspace for an active Military base. I optioned to get the Class B clearence directly from the base for the transition. Prior to exiting the Class B I was told to contact the Class D tower. I did this, but I was told "aircraft calling, standby." My understanding is that I have not heard my N# and therefore am not in contact with the controlling agency. At the time, I believed that I was "stuck". I was still technically on a Class B clearence until I left the airspace at which time I would be in the Class D. The problem is that at the altitude assigned by the Class B controller, I would be below the ceiling of the Class D. So, I passed from the B to D without establishing contact. I then immediately climbed to the ceiling of the Class D. The tower called me back and directed me in to the flow of traffic. The tower was busy, but nonetheless did not question my actions. Was I legal? What should I have done?

Since the Class B controller had given me " mid-field transition at 2600 msl", could I have turned 360s above the field until establishing contact with the class D controller? Can I "inform" the Class B controller of what I need to do, or must I get a clearence from him? Keep in mind that I wasn't assigned a heading.

If I were talking to an approach controller, could I have assumed that I was clear in to class D per a handoff? Is it right to assume that I was handed off in this case and that is why I was okay to enter the class D?

Was I stuck between two violations? What would you guys do?

Thanks for the input.

 

[Jetsnake]

File a NASA report within 10 day's
just to cover your ass.

There's alway's 2 sides to the story.
Your's being the most important...

Jetsnake

 

[generaltso]

If they didn't say anything, you should be fine... but from your story it didn't sound like you did anything wrong.

 

[maverick_fp00]

When you go through Class D, all you need is 2 way communications. You don't have to have permission if I remember correctly. Also, if you are going from point A to point B, let's say from Houston, TX to Jacksonville, Fl and you are cleared direct, you don't have to worry about breaking through, lets say in this example, New Orleans' airspace. You won't have to call New Orleans Tower and ask them if you can proceed through their airspace from west to east.

That's my understanding of it. I never have a problem.

-Nick

 

[bobbysamd]

Clearance

You weren't told to phone the tower, were you?

File the NASA report, just to be sure, but I, too, think you were okay.

 

[burping_boy]

About 2-way communications...

The way it is stated is that "two-way communications must be ESTABLISHED" to enter class C or class D. If the controlling agency of that airspace (tower, approach, what have you) does NOT read back your callsign, then you have not established communications. In his case, "aircraft calling please stand by", communications were not established with the class D facility.

At any rate, yeah, file the NASA report.

 

[ILLINI]

I agree with burping_boy's definition of establishing 2-way communication with "D" or "C" airspace. However, there is one thing i'd like to add to what he mentioned. This may seem quite obvious, but there is one exception where you may not enter the airspace even if they did state your N number. If they say "Cessna 123AB remain clear of the delta airspace", this counts as having established 2-way communication, but you must remain clear of the airspace per their instruction. If the tower or approach controler said "Cessna 123AB standby" then this is considered established 2-way communication and you may continue to enter the airspace.

Like the others have said... CYA and file a NASA form. In most cases, if you did bust a reg. the controller will tell you to copy a phone number and give him/her a call. Even then, he may just want to talk to you about what happened and you get no more than a scolding from him/her. If you ever do have to call a controller to talk about a deviation or something, be very polite, professional, and don't get defensive. They aren't police and don't want to bust you (they have alot of paperwork to fill out). There are however circumstances where the controller has no choice but to write you up whether he wants to or not.

 

[FlyinBrian]

If they say N123AB, remain clear of class Delta Airspace, you have indeed established two way radio communication, but you still may not enter, because you would be disregarding an ATC instruction. (91.123(b))

To answer the additional question, yes. You did bust a reg when you entered the class D prior to establishing Two-way radio communication. It sounds like you made a pretty good decision under the circumstances. I probably would have circumnavigated the delta to exit the bravo, and then tried calling again. To be sure, you could call up The class B controller and let them know the situation, and they will give you further instruction. You were legally in the B, so staying there isn't a problem as long as you talk to ATC about it.

I'm with everyone else, file a NASA form, and don't sweat it. That kind of stuff happens ALL THE TIME at Class D airports.

 

[skybuda]

Were you cleared out of the class B or just handed off. Did the class B controler tell you that you were to squak VFR (1200) or were you on the same squak. We often shot may VFR approaches which we were in Class B airspace only to be handed off to the Class D. By the time that we could get a word in we would be over the marker or in the top of the class D. As it sounds you were not shooting approaches. But sounds simmular, I know if we would have broke things off my butt would have been in some hot water with others following.

SB

 

[cookmg]

thanks everyone.

Yes, I think I am going to file a NASA report. I assume this is done at the local FSDO? I am a little concerned about this following me in my career though? Should I be?

In the situation I was describing, I could NOT circumnavigate the Delta without violating the Bravo clearence I was on. There is no buffer between the D and B airspace on my flight path. I think, if in that situation again, I will go back to the Bravo controller and tell him the tower is busy.

My next question: Can I "tell" the class Bravo controller that I "am" turning around to avoid penetrating the Delta. Or, must I request it. I'm not sure I can claim safety of flight here and simply "inform" the controller that I am violating the Class B clearence.

So, maybe I need to avoid putting myself in these situations.

Do you guys suppose that I could phone the Delta tower now and ask them about the situation. Maybe they will tell me that I was a coordinated arrival and so I did not need to establish contact?

Well, thanks for the help everyone. I'll look forward to more disscussion about this issue.

Mike