Dials or Glass? Your Preference?

[Heavy Set]

Wow - this thread has returned... I have not flown glass but I have jumpsat in aircraft with it. I'm impressed but I still wonder if it leads to a deterioration in piloting skills - people just seem less atuned to their surroundings - kinda aloof. That's just my impression but I could be wrong.

I am especially impressed with those new microjets (Eclipse, Cessna Mustang, Adam A700). Have you seen the updated glass on those aircraft? And the owners/pilots will have probably 1,000 hours total.... Should be interesting around the pattern.

 

[jimcav]

It drives me nuts flyin with pilots who refuse to click off the magic once in a while and fly it like a real airplane. Clear and a million going in to ROC or GPT and these guys are doing the visual app. on the FCP till about 500 AGL. I thought we got into this game because we like to fly. Anyhow glass is great for situational awareness, and for low vis you can't beat autoland technology in glass airplanes.However when I get the visual on my leg it's autopilot, autothrottles, and flight director off. I still take pride in being a pliot not just a button pusher.

 

[Juvat]

It depends...

...is the glass half empty, or is it half full?

 

[RJP]

If the 777 had steam guages would you hand fly it more often?

Oooh, good point. Glass has nothing to do with using the AP.

 

[Airpiraterob]

wait till you fly glass in good turbulence at night, it gets all blury and the speed/altitude tapes are runnign up and down all the time......id prefer all steam gauges in those conditions, otherwise i likem glass. i dotn find it encouraging complacencey at all. i was complacent to begin with so theres no effect here nah really its still got your basic six, just compacted and in one small screen so youre still scanning if youre hand flying, just not moving your eyes as far.....and youre still getting the same radiation youd get at home from your CRT computer screen.

 

[mach none]

I prefer glass, but which ever one pays the best. I vote for a super cub with no gauges!

 

[AK737FO]

Boiler Room

Steam power baby! I'll take the round dials any day.

By the time I hang up my hat, the 700 will be considered old technology. I'm enjoying the heck out of flying the old stuff now, because it won't be around much longer (2007 supposedly for the 200).

It is alwys fun to have one of our SEA or LAX guy in the jump seat. You hear them say things like, "how do you do an arc without a map?" or "how do you do that without your noodle on the purple line?" Ummmm, I use the RMI and I know where I'm at in my head... Now if i could only figure out a way to fly the 200 and get PV layovers in Feb life would be perfect!

I have flown glass and the 700 rocks for situational awareness, but there is no doubt that after a few years of all glass, a guys basic skills will be hurting. Some of my SEA friends crack me up when they say they fly the 700 without the autopilot. Their idea of "flying it" consists of turning off the flight director for a visual. I have heard from instructors that the #1 maneuver in SEA that needs "extra" training in recurrent is the visual approach. This is sad, but it is a bi-product of glass.

 

[On Your Six]

I heard someone say that glass is like early retirement.... I tend to agree with that but I am sure that flying skills are deteriorating considerably. But you just can't have the same situational awareness without the glass. Pretty soon we will all be outsourced to the robots anyway...

 

[ILStoMinimums]

I'm on round dials now in the Twotter. But, believe it or not, we are getting all glass panels very shortly. Suppossedly the only dials left will be the engine gauges. Wonder how thats going to affect the guys flying it?

 

[StopNTSing]

Some of my SEA friends crack me up when they say they fly the 700 without the autopilot. Their idea of "flying it" consists of turning off the flight director for a visual. I have heard from instructors that the #1 maneuver in SEA that needs "extra" training in recurrent is the visual approach. This is sad, but it is a bi-product of glass.

Wow. That's the most telling evidence I've heard yet that Airmanship is indeed a dying craft.

 

[Mugs]

On a slam-dunk type of visual approach especially, when the work load is high, why not turn all that stuff off? If one guy is concentrating on slowing down and getting down, why should the other guy have to be messing with the MCP panel so that the flight director looks pretty and the autothrottles are in the right mode? You end up with too many eyeballs looking inside rather than outside. Once established and stabilized, you can then bring the goodies back on line if you want to. By this time, the other guy won't need a third hand to assist.

 

[UALjan15]

Glass vs. Steam? Glass, baby....no contest

I think the hand-flying discussion is interesting. I'm a hand-flyer up to at least the flight levels, but usually use the AP on approach until "cleared visual" or near the marker. The reason I don't hand-fly more descending is that I get tired of asking for the PNF to spin the knobs and push the buttons. I've kind of got used to hand-flying more going into the "spoke" airports and doing more AP when flying into the busy hubs.

 

[F/O]

I'm on round dials now in the Twotter. But, believe it or not, we are getting all glass panels very shortly. Suppossedly the only dials left will be the engine gauges. Wonder how thats going to affect the guys flying it?

I don't know your situation, but I would think you'll be getting pretty basic glass on an aircraft of that age. Like an EADI + EHSI, as opposed to a PFD/MFD setup.

So probably, it won't affect your pilots much. They will still have the same 6-pack, just with two EFIS tubes replacing those two instruments.

 

[F/O]

The reason I don't hand-fly more descending is that I get tired of asking for the PNF to spin the knobs and push the buttons.

That's why you turn off the FD as well!! Then you don't have to command any button pushing at all, just ask the other guy to do whatever he needs to do to back you up

 

[ILStoMinimums]

I don't know your situation, but I would think you'll be getting pretty basic glass on an aircraft of that age. Like an EADI + EHSI, as opposed to a PFD/MFD setup.

So probably, it won't affect your pilots much. They will still have the same 6-pack, just with two EFIS tubes replacing those two instruments.

Actually to clear things up we are getting Capstone Phase II installed which has a PFD dipsplay (both side) and a MFD.

 

[potrack]

Glass, of course??

Who wants to work when you can "Arm" something else to do it for you?

Notice guys who are "Real" pilots that hand fly to level-off still follow the flight director? They are in a stabilized climb with the A/T on just climbing?

 

[flyfastinmy10]

I flew both glass and steam at my last company. One day, glass and the next steam. I don't think my instrument skills deteriorated. I found that when flying steam it required much more work when I was most busy.



Anytime something new comes available to make the job easier, it is resisted, until you become comfortable using and understanding it. Next up will be the HUD. Previous was the GPS.



Glass is the clear winner.

 

[mach none]

I would like to take issue with this. You make it sound as if those outside of the "arctic eagle" base cannot fly the jet visually. You are wrong my friend. I will leave at that.

Steam power baby! I'll take the round dials any day.

By the time I hang up my hat, the 700 will be considered old technology. I'm enjoying the heck out of flying the old stuff now, because it won't be around much longer (2007 supposedly for the 200).

It is alwys fun to have one of our SEA or LAX guy in the jump seat. You hear them say things like, "how do you do an arc without a map?" or "how do you do that without your noodle on the purple line?" Ummmm, I use the RMI and I know where I'm at in my head... Now if i could only figure out a way to fly the 200 and get PV layovers in Feb life would be perfect!

I have flown glass and the 700 rocks for situational awareness, but there is no doubt that after a few years of all glass, a guys basic skills will be hurting. Some of my SEA friends crack me up when they say they fly the 700 without the autopilot. Their idea of "flying it" consists of turning off the flight director for a visual. I have heard from instructors that the #1 maneuver in SEA that needs "extra" training in recurrent is the visual approach. This is sad, but it is a bi-product of glass.

 

[AK737FO]

Gotcha!

Easy Mach... You know that the Arctic Eagles can fly circles around any SEA or LAX guy - just ask us!
This company has an outstanding group of aviators. We have to, due to the environment in which we operate.
Unfortunatley, there are those who rely so heavily on the magic, that they stuggle if the magic is turned off and they have to look outside to fly a visual. I've seen it from the JS- cleared for a visual or runway change and both guys go heads down and start typing! The runway is right there fellas, no need to type, just fly.

Try turning your flight director off for a takeoff and see if the Captain doesn't have something to say. Try disconnecting everything at TOD, no autothrottles, no flight director, no map - go raw data HSI and see if the captain doesn't get a little grumpy. That is what I'm talking about. Now put one of those captains inbound to rwy 2 at OME, and you know what happens.

I am sure that you do a fine job and work hard to keep your skills sharp. Not everyone "outside" does.

On another note. Didn't you want to bid ANC? Did you get a slot on the last bid? It is a wet, slushy, sloppy day up here today - winter is on the way!
AK737FO

 

[mach none]

No worries mate, I just get tired of some attitudes that indicate the ANC base are the only ones that can fly and everyone else still has training wheels. I also agree that we have some exceptional aviators and some that do to much typing. You will start to see that with the 400 base in ANC and the introduction to RNP. The NG, you cannot even get a basic HSI display.

I did not bid ANC. I love the summers, but no thanks on 10 months of winter and darkness. I flew the 200 for two different companies and have no desire to do that again and I have the 4/7/8/9 in SEA. I would also be divorced if I tried getting my wife up there.

Easy Mach... You know that the Arctic Eagles can fly circles around any SEA or LAX guy - just ask us!
This company has an outstanding group of aviators. We have to, due to the environment in which we operate.
Unfortunatley, there are those who rely so heavily on the magic, that they stuggle if the magic is turned off and they have to look outside to fly a visual. I've seen it from the JS- cleared for a visual or runway change and both guys go heads down and start typing! The runway is right there fellas, no need to type, just fly.

Try turning your flight director off for a takeoff and see if the Captain doesn't have something to say. Try disconnecting everything at TOD, no autothrottles, no flight director, no map - go raw data HSI and see if the captain doesn't get a little grumpy. That is what I'm talking about. Now put one of those captains inbound to rwy 2 at OME, and you know what happens.

I am sure that you do a fine job and work hard to keep your skills sharp. Not everyone "outside" does.

On another note. Didn't you want to bid ANC? Did you get a slot on the last bid? It is a wet, slushy, sloppy day up here today - winter is on the way!
AK737FO