Dhl Buy's 49% Of Astar

[shooter]

I think you missed the most important part of the latest deal. DHL extended the current ACMI with Astar for 12 years. As I have many friends at ABX, I believe Hete has decided to take the ABX Air business elseware. It is no secret that ABX is unhappy with their current ACMI agreement and that Hete has tried to improve it with no success. I believe Hete will try to rebuild the ABX legacy somewhere else. ABX Air will deposit assets into the holding company, and those assets will be purchased by Astar. The ABX Air Certificate will service other customers other than DHL, ie ANA. I wish no ABX pilot ill will but Astar currently hauls 50% plus of the frieght each night. They publish these numbers everyday on the morning lift sheet. ABX has 3 years left on its current ACMI which is the correct amount of time to replace the Cabin door 767's with cargo door aircraft for Astar. Stage 4 in Europe is quickly approching and DHL will need somewhere to send their fleet of 44 757's that currently do not meet stage 4. Everything being said as One ABX pilot told me " A new beginning somewhere else may be good for us in the long run". Astar has always been DHL from it's call sign to it's previous name. The only thing thats changed is Astar is now back as DHL.

I don't know, don't you think they will just mod. to stage 4? While it would be a nice fit for the US market, they have a need for them in the EU. Which brings up another head scratcher for me. I had read that Polar was looking at getting a 767 type on their cert. to diversify their fleet from just 747's. Does Astar have something like this being looked at? I ask because I still wonder who will get the new 767-300ER's DHL ordered. Not to bash Astar, but your fleet are dino's and something really needs to be done about that. It may be that you (Astar) buys ABX, but who knows how this will all play out. I just know I'm done when it's done. No more aviation after ABX for me, baby.

 

[erwaz]

ASTAR has alwas been DHL. Its just a shell game DHL plays very well. DHL is also a private company. DHL likes private companys not public. I personaly feel that there is nothing in the ABX fleet that is worth two nickels except for the 10 767 with cargo doors for DHL. Having said that, I do hope that ABX will be apart of the whole DHL Plan. I have friends at ABX and I do not want to see them on the street. I would much rather work with them as one company called DHL.

 

[shooter]

ASTAR has alwas been DHL. Its just a shell game DHL plays very well. DHL is also a private company. DHL likes private companys not public. I personaly feel that there is nothing in the ABX fleet that is worth two nickels except for the 10 767 with cargo doors for DHL. Having said that, I do hope that ABX will be apart of the whole DHL Plan. I have friends at ABX and I do not want to see them on the street. I would much rather work with them as one company called DHL.

wow, you should really get to know your company structure. DHL is NOT a private company. Its owned by a very publicly traded company Deutsche Post World Net. The only difference is now the investors of Deutsche Post now have to wonder where their money goes when it flows into Astar. To be transparent with the cash (you know to show the investors you are not stealing their money by not having to report to the public) Astar will have to become public. You know how you do that? Buy or be bought by ABX or take your company public. Which do you think is more likely to happen?

 

[erwaz]

DHL is not a public company. Yes DP is public but DHL is seperate and private. Astar will not become public unless JD deceids to sell. And yes the sale of Astar to Abx is one posibility although a long shot at best. What ever happens I do hope we all come out on top because we all want our jobs at the end of the day. Lets not get mad at each other. We are just all along for the ride brother.

 

[shooter]

DHL is not a public company. Yes DP is public but DHL is seperate and private. Astar will not become public unless JD deceids to sell. And yes the sale of Astar to Abx is one posibility although a long shot at best. What ever happens I do hope we all come out on top because we all want our jobs at the end of the day. Lets not get mad at each other. We are just all along for the ride brother.

agreed, I hope we all come out on top. I am not mad and hope I do not come across as mad. But DHL is a publicly traded company through DPWN. All its financial statments and operating expenses are reported through them. Polar is a publicly traded company and soon, Astar will be too. They have to be public or the investors would fume about non-disclosure of the finances.

 

[erwaz]

I am just a bumb pilot so you may be right!

 

[shooter]

I am just a bumb pilot so you may be right!

you don't have to take my word for it. here is the publications link from DPWN to view the annual report/Q1/outlook etc.

http://investors.dpwn.de/en/investoren/publikationen/index.html

 

[shooter]

F.Y.I.

I know Daz is being all hush hush about the cost of the 49%, but it will come out in the 2nd quarter report or the annual at the latest. As they reported the Polar purchase.

 

[AV8OR]

Well, my question, rhetorical as it may have been, had more to do with a common sense explanation for not choosing a carrier with better capabilities and performance. The fact that it doesn't make sense is what has me worried.
But, okay, lets bat this CAT II/III & C Container thing around. CAT II/III capabilities are absolutely essential in the Overnight Express Industry. You know, "when it absolutely, positively has to be there overnight....." And, of course, there are going to be the odd nights when even CAT II/III aircraft aren't going to get in to some markets. But neither will UPS or FedEx. And since DHL professes to be in the American Overnight Express business, they are going to have to compete. Overnight customers are fickle. You don't make it in one day and UPS does....you lose the customer to UPS, even if it costs more.
As for the C Container. Okay, they're small. So is most of the product shipped Overnight Express. Just because ABX is the only one doing it doesn't make it wrong for the business. There's a reason for why ABX has used them successfully for over 25 years; the customers love them. The legacy customers like Dell, IBM, Apple and others love them because they can load them themselves, push them off the loading dock at the last minute and still make the flight. For years IBM has threatened to go to someone else if we took C containers out of their distribution cities.

OK, now I understand where you're coming from. At first I didn't think you answered my question, "which would be more expensive", but toward the end I realized in a round about way what you are saying that since the CATII DC-9 C container system is fundamentally superior to the A container sysytem that DHL seems to be favoring in the long run, it is crazy for them to invest in AStar. I got it. Thanks for the reply.

 

[fodc8]

The entire World is A container. The only airline using C containers is ABX Air. I know you guys have been with this system for so long it's hard to come to the realization that this system is on the way out. DHL strategic plans include an all A container fleet. New cities being served by Astar are being completely converted to process A containers only. Ultimately the C container issue will make or break any deal ABX gets, not Cat 2. When your 767's begin getting cargo doors I will be the first to say your back in the game. Rumor of you getting them and actual 767's with doors showing up are two different things. Didn't Hete take 3 of ABX Air's 767F to Japan? I wonder how DHL took that?

 

[abxaviator]

The entire World is A container. The only airline using C containers is ABX Air. I know you guys have been with this system for so long it's hard to come to the realization that this system is on the way out. DHL strategic plans include an all A container fleet. New cities being served by Astar are being completely converted to process A containers only. Ultimately the C container issue will make or break any deal ABX gets, not Cat 2. When your 767's begin getting cargo doors I will be the first to say your back in the game. Rumor of you getting them and actual 767's with doors showing up are two different things. Didn't Hete take 3 of ABX Air's 767F to Japan? I wonder how DHL took that?

When our 767's BEGIN getting cargo doors!?! Perhaps this is news to you, but 767's with cargo doors are not rumor. ALL our 767's delivered since early last year and all in the future ALREADY have cargo doors and the flat panel cockpit. Guess you'll need to step up to be first in line now.

 

[fodc8]

Ahh How many 767's do you have that don't have cargo doors? Let me help A LOT. Future airplanes are not present airplanes. You really should do the window test. When you look out the window and their on the ramp you really do have them. I will bet that Hete continues to move any new 767F to Asia where the real money is for ABX. By the way they don't use C containers in Asia.

 

[BoxesRus]

Okay, sorry I brought it up.

I'm not saying one is better than the other. I AM saying that C containers don't make ABX obsolete. ABX cultivated a pretty fair market niche with them. And I keep hearing from my CEO that I make too much money for us to be competitive as an ACMI carrier so we must have put them to good use sometime in the past.

 

[erwaz]

Guys calm down!! The real issue here is that we all want to keep our jobs and have a good career in aviation. All the aircraft in both ABX and Astar are old junk, except for the 10 767 ABX has. DHL will refleet these airlines with more modern fuel efficient aircraft. The system will be A containers not C containers because that is just what DHL uses world wide. Now that DHL bought 49% of Astar the question is will they do the same for ABX or cut them loose in the future. I do not know. I am an Astar pilot and I hope that the guys at ABX will be OK. I do not want them to be furloughed or loose their jobs. ABX pilots as Astar pilots have worked to hard all of our lives to get to where we are. It is silly for any ABX or Astar pilot to get mad at each other. Neither pilot group can control what is going on. What we can do is to stay united and continue to fight for fair contracts and help each other in any legal way posible. To bicker to each other on who has beter equipment or to what DHL will do next is very, as the germans would say, KINDER! Childish. No one and I mean no one knows where all this is going and what will happen next. All we can do is hope that in the end it will all work out in everyone's favor.

I would like to thank the ABX guys and their company for the great hospitality when I Jumpseat on ABX. I depend on ABX to get me to and from work. You guys have been great. I hope Astar pilots have been good to the ABX pilots when they jumpseat. I am always happy to give an ABX guy a ride to work.

 

[abxaviator]

Ahh How many 767's do you have that don't have cargo doors? Let me help A LOT. Future airplanes are not present airplanes. You really should do the window test. When you look out the window and their on the ramp you really do have them. I will bet that Hete continues to move any new 767F to Asia where the real money is for ABX. By the way they don't use C containers in Asia.

You really are obtuse, thought I was just imagining it at first. I'll say it again, I'm not talking about the future when I point out we ALREADY HAVE 767's WITH cargo doors on the line flying every day (perhaps you've not looked out the window of your ivory tower) and yes more to come, again with cargo doors.