Dhl Buy's 49% Of Astar

[abxaviator]

The entire World is A container. The only airline using C containers is ABX Air. I know you guys have been with this system for so long it's hard to come to the realization that this system is on the way out. DHL strategic plans include an all A container fleet. New cities being served by Astar are being completely converted to process A containers only. Ultimately the C container issue will make or break any deal ABX gets, not Cat 2. When your 767's begin getting cargo doors I will be the first to say your back in the game. Rumor of you getting them and actual 767's with doors showing up are two different things. Didn't Hete take 3 of ABX Air's 767F to Japan? I wonder how DHL took that?

When our 767's BEGIN getting cargo doors!?! Perhaps this is news to you, but 767's with cargo doors are not rumor. ALL our 767's delivered since early last year and all in the future ALREADY have cargo doors and the flat panel cockpit. Guess you'll need to step up to be first in line now.

 

[fodc8]

Ahh How many 767's do you have that don't have cargo doors? Let me help A LOT. Future airplanes are not present airplanes. You really should do the window test. When you look out the window and their on the ramp you really do have them. I will bet that Hete continues to move any new 767F to Asia where the real money is for ABX. By the way they don't use C containers in Asia.

 

[BoxesRus]

Okay, sorry I brought it up.

I'm not saying one is better than the other. I AM saying that C containers don't make ABX obsolete. ABX cultivated a pretty fair market niche with them. And I keep hearing from my CEO that I make too much money for us to be competitive as an ACMI carrier so we must have put them to good use sometime in the past.

 

[erwaz]

Guys calm down!! The real issue here is that we all want to keep our jobs and have a good career in aviation. All the aircraft in both ABX and Astar are old junk, except for the 10 767 ABX has. DHL will refleet these airlines with more modern fuel efficient aircraft. The system will be A containers not C containers because that is just what DHL uses world wide. Now that DHL bought 49% of Astar the question is will they do the same for ABX or cut them loose in the future. I do not know. I am an Astar pilot and I hope that the guys at ABX will be OK. I do not want them to be furloughed or loose their jobs. ABX pilots as Astar pilots have worked to hard all of our lives to get to where we are. It is silly for any ABX or Astar pilot to get mad at each other. Neither pilot group can control what is going on. What we can do is to stay united and continue to fight for fair contracts and help each other in any legal way posible. To bicker to each other on who has beter equipment or to what DHL will do next is very, as the germans would say, KINDER! Childish. No one and I mean no one knows where all this is going and what will happen next. All we can do is hope that in the end it will all work out in everyone's favor.

I would like to thank the ABX guys and their company for the great hospitality when I Jumpseat on ABX. I depend on ABX to get me to and from work. You guys have been great. I hope Astar pilots have been good to the ABX pilots when they jumpseat. I am always happy to give an ABX guy a ride to work.

 

[abxaviator]

Ahh How many 767's do you have that don't have cargo doors? Let me help A LOT. Future airplanes are not present airplanes. You really should do the window test. When you look out the window and their on the ramp you really do have them. I will bet that Hete continues to move any new 767F to Asia where the real money is for ABX. By the way they don't use C containers in Asia.

You really are obtuse, thought I was just imagining it at first. I'll say it again, I'm not talking about the future when I point out we ALREADY HAVE 767's WITH cargo doors on the line flying every day (perhaps you've not looked out the window of your ivory tower) and yes more to come, again with cargo doors.

 

[SkyMiles]

For some reason, the investers seem to like the announcement. abxa is up 10% in 2 days. I guess they either see a better chance of Dhl investing in and keeping abx around or a future breakup? I just dont see why an invester would want to see the split off of the big money making part of the company. They obviously dont see this as a negative as they did with the announcement of loosing some hub management and parked airplanes. Also by buying into astar, my assumption is is that their acmi agreement just got 49% cheaper for dhl as I would guess that as a 49% equity holder they now get 49% of the profits back they just paid astar; although still more expensive than abx. so it makes sense to buy some of your costs back as well as getting a say in how things are done.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

...by buying into astar, my assumption is is that their acmi agreement just got 49% cheaper for dhl as I would guess that as a 49% equity holder they now get 49% of the profits back they just paid astar; although still more expensive than abx. so it makes sense to buy some of your costs back as well as getting a say in how things are done.

Astar is an ACMI carrier with basically 1 customer...DHL. The actual percentage of DHL's ownership, the number of seats they have on the board, and the limits upon their voting stock are all immaterial.

Believe me, they have a say in "how things get done."

 

[Box-Hauler]

To further the discussion of Astar having DHL on the board. How will this affect negotiations. I assume that DHL renegotiated their contract % with Astar. Is it lower now. Also I bet there were some discussions of the no furlough clause or staffing levels. You cannot operate a profitable company and pay people to bid "no fly" lines. Has anyone seen the new ACMI agreement. This might not be as good a deal for Astar as I first thought. If it were ABX that renegotiated a contract I can guarantee that there would be a killer bonus for management and a screw job for the line pilot.

Just the thoughts of a cynical pilot who has seen management all to willing to step over a dollar if it would help a pilot only to have them pick up a penny for themselves.......

 

[penguin22]

Congrats to the Astar guys on the DHL investment!:beer:

Should make it easier for you guys to get contract improvements!

it goes without saying, but I'll say it again anyway...
No Concessionary Contracts!

 

[AV8OR]

Congrats to the Astar guys on the DHL investment!:beer:

Should make it easier for you guys to get contract improvements!

it goes without saying, but I'll say it again anyway...
No Concessionary Contracts!

Ya got that right brother!

Thanks for the props.

 

[UM#1]

I assume that DHL renegotiated their contract % with Astar. Is it lower now. Also I bet there were some discussions of the no furlough clause or staffing levels. You cannot operate a profitable company and pay people to bid "no fly" lines. Has anyone seen the new ACMI agreement. This might not be as good a deal for Astar as I first thought.

The ACMI agreement was not changed at all, it's the same agreement just extended til 2019.

 

[Box-Hauler]

The ACMI agreement was not changed at all, it's the same agreement just extended til 2019.

Good for Astar then, otherwise it could have been an even tougher negotiation. Now you should have some leverage, good luck to you guys, no concessionary contracts. You and ABX need to bring DHL flyers up to "industry standard" for overnight express. I do not care if you are an ACMI, even if that is all Mr. Hete keeps pushing on us, if DHL wants to play with the big dogs they will need to get off the porch. That means pay and benefits in the ballpark of UPS and FedEx. You cannot get reliability to make a 10am delivery deadline if you will not pay. That goes for drivers as well as pilots. DHL has a lot to learn.

 

[erwaz]

Shooter,

I understand what you are trying to say. However, my point is you can't buy DHL stock only DP. You can't buy polar stock only Atlis Air group stock. You can't buy Astar stock only DP stock. These companies answer to their parent companys not stock holders. Its a shell game! ABX stock can be aquired by anyone!

 

[Clipperskip]

The ACMI agreement was not changed at all, it's the same agreement just extended til 2019.

We heard yesterday from one of our Union leaders that it is not just extension of the present ACMI, there are "adjustments" from the original numbers. Think about it, isn't this what happened just recently with the reworking of our "hub services agreement". Accept a slightly reduced percentage of profit for a extension in the term of the agreement, in this case, ten more years. That aside, I am happy for our Astar brothers and sisters, and I wish them well with their efforts to achieve a suitable contract.

 

[flyinboxes]

My mistake wasn't the press release, just DHL saying it...


Plantation-based express-delivery company DHL on Tuesday announced it has acquired a minority stake in Miami's Astar Air Cargo for an undisclosed amount. DHL acquired a 49 percent equity interest and a 24.9 percent voting interest in Astar -- just under federal thresholds that restrict foreign ownership of U.S. airlines. DHL is an arm of Germany's Deutsche Post. Jonathan Baker, a DHL spokesman, said the transaction was reviewed by the U.S. Department of Transportation. The deal comes four years after the airline, then known as DHL Airways, was sold by DHL and a private investor to a group led by former Burger King boss John Dasburg for $57 million.

''The business environment has changed significantly since 2003,'' Baker said in explaining why DHL reacquired a stake in Astar. He didn't offer any specifics. DHL has recently targeted aviation investments to support its operations in the United States. It recently invested in New York's Polar Air Cargo, which offers delivery services between the United States and Asia. DHL relies on Astar to handle about a third of its U.S. express domestic air services, Baker said. The transaction ''signals DHL's confidence in the capabilities of Astar,'' said Dasburg, Astar's chairman, president and CEO.

At the time of the 2003 sale of the cargo firm to Dasburg's group, both United Parcel Service and FedEx challenged the deal on the grounds that airline was controlled by Deutsche Post. But a Department of Transportation judge disagreed with the two package-delivery giants. Astar would have had to shut down had the judge ruled the other way, according to a company lawyer at the time. Federal law prohibits foreign ownership of any U.S. airline to 49 percent and voting interest to 25 percent. The law dates back to 1926.

Yes, one third the services, i.e. "cities and thru flights". But one half the weight. Its all on the lift sheets and nightly freight tonnage. Not that it even matters.

 

[shooter]

Shooter,

I understand what you are trying to say. However, my point is you can't buy DHL stock only DP. You can't buy polar stock only Atlis Air group stock. You can't buy Astar stock only DP stock. These companies answer to their parent companys not stock holders. Its a shell game! ABX stock can be aquired by anyone!

true, you can't buy DHL stock. When you buy DPW stock you are buying into the "group" and DHL is in that group. So when you invest in DPW you invest in DHL as well as all other companies owned by DPWN. So if you as an investor buy stock into DPW, you need to know where your money is going as what kind of risk you are taking as well as what the possible returns might be. If that company you invested in does not disclose where they shovel money, corruption and stealing could go on and as result they are required to disclose to the investors where they put their money. This includes Astar. You cannot be part of an investment without disclosing it to the investors. Even if it is only a 49% equity stake.

Just because the stock ticker does not say DHL does not mean they are a private company.

 

[erwaz]

true, you can't buy DHL stock. When you buy DPW stock you are buying into the "group" and DHL is in that group. So when you invest in DPW you invest in DHL as well as all other companies owned by DPWN. So if you as an investor buy stock into DPW, you need to know where your money is going as what kind of risk you are taking as well as what the possible returns might be. If that company you invested in does not disclose where they shovel money, corruption and stealing could go on and as result they are required to disclose to the investors where they put their money. This includes Astar. You cannot be part of an investment without disclosing it to the investors. Even if it is only a 49% equity stake.

Just because the stock ticker does not say DHL does not mean they are a private company.

I understand but these companies DHL, POLAR, ASTAR if they wanted to sell, buy, expand, or what ever they can do so without answering to any share holder. Just like DHL just did with Astar. They bought 49% and no one knows the dollar amount! They just did it behind closed doors.

 

[erwaz]

All anyone knows is what Dasburg said that the ACMI contract remains the same (7%) it just got extended to 2019.

 

[shooter]

I understand but these companies DHL, POLAR, ASTAR if they wanted to sell, buy, expand, or what ever they can do so without answering to any share holder. Just like DHL just did with Astar. They bought 49% and no one knows the dollar amount! They just did it behind closed doors.

This is what I disagree with you on. They DO have to answer to shareholders. You should see it in the DPWN 2nd quarter results, annual report etc. You can also find that info in Atlas reports when they bought 49% of Polar. You are correct that Daz does not need to report it to anyone since Astar is private, but DHL needs to. This is why I said this thing is still moving and not over yet. So if you want to find out what 49% equity share was worth vs. the original 57 mil investment. Just follow DPWN's quarterly and it HAS to be reported to the DPW share holders.

I just hope ABX gets some good news soon like you guys have. By the way...congrats!

 

[two(2)%]

When your 767's begin getting cargo doors I will be the first to say your back in the game. Rumor of you getting them and actual 767's with doors showing up are two different things.

First of all, to all Astar employees, congratulations on the support from DHL. ABX just became the Betamax of cargo aircraft. One thing to consider, ABX has all the conversion slots booked for the next two years on 767 conversions at IAI and We all know the future of freight is medium modern gen aircraft like the 767SF, not the 727F. The six A300s are supposed to be retired by the end of '08. Possibly one year after that DHL will begin taking delivery of their first of six new 767f's. Practically speaking, I'd say these slots are worth as much if not more than the current fleet of 29 727f's. I suppose the upside is that DHL needs more lift, not less, as all can attest to the current higher evening A/C loads. Question: can Astar folks comment/speculate on the 49% price being about $140M? That Daz is a crafty old man. Has he ever been to ILN?