DHL/ASTAR hiring

[hvydriver]

80for80,

I don't _think_ I make good money now. I _know_ I do. Further, we are guaranteed our current level of flying (at minimum) at our current rates for 11 years. We also have first right of refusal for_any and all_ new routes in the US. I'm not worried about it. Neither is our BOD. Now go to your room.

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

To properly put this in to context,
The good comparison should not be UPS/FedEx and Star to DP/ASTAR, thats mixing capitalisim with a Govt entity (apples and oranges). To make your point, a proper comparison would be US Post office (making special deals with UPS... they dont) to DP/ASTAR (they do). But then again, To make my point, my first comparison is exactly the point Im making in reverse. DP is a Govt agency, competing (unfairly) with capitalist entities like(UPS/FedEx)... Does that make sence? If not, Hopefully, we can agree to dis-agree and still buy each other a round of beers. Like I said B4, We just wiggling the stix anyway, right? I dont mean to make such a big deal about this. I dont sit up at night thinking about DP/ASTAR, really I dont, I have a life. And my comment about hoping you all go out of business, Sorry, Marine Crops mouth speaking B4 I think... I guess I should have never chimed in on this.

My original post on page one should have read like this...

DHL/ABX are great companies, they have a good contract. Congrates to another Freight Dawg Org for making life so good for so many of us. Cya on the radios... Cya

 

[metrodriver]

DHL is big in Europe and the rest of the world and relatively small in the US. Why? because for the longest time they have concentrated on a truly global market while UPS and Fedex started doing that just about 10 years ago (they first built up the US customer base). UPS has a crew base in Paris with US crews flying all over Europe. DHL does not have European crews in the US. In fact they use locally licensed crews in their respective bases (England, Belgium, USA).
Deutsche Post is not a government entity anymore. It is privatized (European Union ruling) and can therefore invest in what it wants. What do you think of Fedex flying USPS stuff? I lost my job (and 1500 others with me) because of that deal, should never have happened.
All the carriers that fly DHL painted planes are independent carriers:Astar, EAT, SNAS and a few others.
UPS carries a lot stuff for the masses, relatively cheap stuff. DHL generally has a higher dollar in the boxes and is mostly business oriented (shows best around Christmas, people don't want to pay DHL's price to ship their gifts). But if you want to send something overseas there is no faster way than DHL.
As a feeder pilot I rather dealt with DHL than UPS. DHL: scales to know exactly how much weight is where in the airplane, drivers loading the plane, use of crew facilities. UPS: don't know how much freight is where (if the nose strut is not fully extended or compressed the plane might be within w+b limits, pilots have to load / unload the plane (saves UPS $20.-/hr for a driver) and you're not even allowed to get a cup of coffee out of the crew lounge or get a printed weather briefing.
Payscales at red / brown / purple are about the same (see air inc's magazine).
And how about the predatory buying of companies that UPS does to get routes? Does Challenge Aircargo ring a bell? Flew flowers out of S.America with refregirated 757's, UPS buys them for the routes and ever since it's been difficult to get the flowers to the US.
So please stop about DHL killing the market. If anyone does it's UPS.

 

[JayDub]

To make your point, a proper comparison would be US Post office (making special deals with UPS... they dont) to DP/ASTAR (they do). But then again, To make my point, my first comparison is exactly the point Im making in reverse. DP is a Govt agency, competing (unfairly) with capitalist entities like(UPS/FedEx)... Does that make sence?

Now that is interesting. Explain to me, again, how FedEx getting the postal contract in this country was done in a fair and proper way? You're right, USPS doesn't have a special deal with UPS. Some folks might beg to differ when it comes to FedEx, however...


Respectfully,

JayDub

 

[hvydriver]

BigBrownDC8,

I thank you for your offer of a brewski. I'll return the offer. No offense has been taken by me on any points you've made. While you are correct that for the moment, DP is still partially owned by the German government, it is now a minority stake, which is scheduled to be completely sold to private interests by '07. It will probably be prior to that. I wouldn't be too worried about illegal subsidies from DP's postal earnings, though. After the fines DP got for doing that domestically (in Germany) they are on a much tighter leash now. If the EU caught them blending funds from their postal subsidies with DHL, it's a very safe bet that the EU would fine them to the point of economic non-viability.

If I seem to be short tempered in my postings on this issue, it's due to the fact that all of this is _very_close to home for me. My co-workers and I have been enduring this harassment for a lot of years now. I've got friends at Purple/Brown myself. We all give each other grief about work stuff, but at the end of the day, all of us understand that this is really about keeping the competition out. It's not about violating any US laws. That's been proven over and over again in the past 4 years or so, with informal and formal hearings, all the way to the end of the legal process, (save for the final ruling by the Decisionmaker at DOT, which should happen sometime about mid-Febuary) all brought about by Purple/Brown. It has cost my little company a boat load of money to fight this battle. It's good for the legal side of things to finally be over.

As to our customer (DHL) undercutting Purple/Brown, I don't think that is going to happen. There've been quite a few press releases by DHL that there will be no decrease in shipping rates in the US. And since DHL is pricer than either Purple/Brown, I don't see that you've got too much to worry about.

 

[hvydriver]

Metrodriver,

I notice that you have 727 time, but you're on furlough. Did you get laid off due to FedEx getting the postal contract?

 

[AV8OR]

hvydriver,

My guess is metro driver might be former KH or Ryan maybe affected by some of the postal contract shift...just a guess.

As for 80for80,

You sure seem to be mighty confident in your assertions about the future of Astar and ABX Air. Either way, yours is a view from the sideline. Enjoy the show.

 

[AV8OR]

80for80

80for80,

Hey I did a little search a second ago and it appears, by the various forums you´ve contributed to, your primary job other than flying the CRJ, is crappin in everybody´s wheaties that likes their job and uses this board. It also appears that some of those people may know who you are and think you fly for American Eagle. If so, enjoy that 15 year no strike clause. There´s whole bunch of former Eagle drivers at Astar that thought better. For the rest of you Eagle guys, (and girls), come on over, the water´s warm.

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Metrodriver,
I just wanted to address a few of the things that you addressed in you post then its beer time...

UPS doesnt have a Pilot Domicile in Paris. SDF, MIA and ONT (Louisville, Miami, Onterio all in the USA)... Thats all, Now maybe there is some type of Star base there, That I dont know about, NO US CREWS BASED IN EUROPE!!!!!

The German Govt does still have an interest (Maybe small, but still an interest) in the DP.

Im giving you an invite out to SDF, Believe me, UPS can sort 500,000 packages an hour in SDF and they know exactly what and how much is in each container. I dont know where you get your info from, maybe its something they have in Europe that Im not aware of. If Im wrong about something going on in Europe, I appologize. But here in the USA, Its all maticulously done (Exact)... Wx and coffee, This must be things going on over there, Like I said, Come on out to SDF, Coffee, Wx, Its all there for the taking...

The comment about UPS and Business. Completely wrong. UPS is all about Business, Not just in shipping but in Freight forwarding, business loans, wearhousing, You name it and UPS does it, not to mention, they market to business, not the GP. But of course, we will work with the GP and give them a great rate...

As for FedEx/USPS... not my baby, Im not sure about the agreement there, You might be right on that one.

Were currently in contract Neg. Were going to try to up the Bar a bit on our next contract, not just for Freight Dawgs. but we'd also like to maintain the salary level DAL currently has for the industry. Wish us luck...

What kind of beer do you like. Call me a wimp... Im a Coor light man, (from Tx and all...)

May we all have blue skies and warm layovers... Cya...

 

[metrodriver]

Avi8or and hvydrvr, you are both correct on where I was working and why I got furloughed. And it was just not only KH or Ryan. How about Express One, Emery, Cappy and.......
Brown DC8:A few (about 8) years back I met a female F/O who was living in Paris and based in Paris for UPS. She didn't want to upgrade because she liked living in Europa and flying there. So maybe UPS had to close its crewbase there and hire some European carrier to haul their stuff.
Regarding weighing the freight: Yes, for the big planes. For the feeders they show up with a can and start loading your plane without knowing how much weight is where and later they show up with another can (of which it's weight is not known at the time of loading the first, since they are still sorting it). So if the first one weighs 800 lbs and takes up 2/3rds of the plane, what will happen when the second one weighs 2500 lbs? Of course it will get stuffed into the plane somehow and the loaders (at the hub they load for you, not at the outstations) will tell you it's all evenly loaded, eventhough the nosewheels are barely touching the ground. If you tell them to reload it everybody will get angry because now you will have a delayed departure. And this is all in the US. I've been at several UPS hubs (not SDF) and the feeder pilots are litterally treated like cr@p. Like I said earlier: pay for some stale coffee out of a machine, no printed weather (Oh yeah, UPS won't even let you use a computer to get Duats, you have to use the 1800wxbrief approach and write it on a piece of paper). At some places they won't even escort you of the ramp to use a bathroom (we're too busy) and UPS won't help you get a ramp i/d. And yes, load 3500lbs of boxes in 100 degree weather, hope you don't drop anything on your feet, climb in the cockpit that's 140 degrees and rush to get the heck out of there. The drivers are almost all the time late, but any late departure comes on the plate of the pilot (does union contract for the drivers ring some bells?). DHL knows the weight of the can and weighs every package at the bottom of the beltloader so you know exactly how much weight is in which compartement. I guess buying some scales will cost too much money for UPS and the feederpilots are employed somewhere else, so who cares if something happens.
I would love to get a job at UPS flying the big stuff and get treated like a king (limo rides to and from the hotel in DEN for example instead of having to wait outside for 30 minutes for a bus and getting a sightseeing tour of the airport before ending up in some crappy hotel where you got to share a room with some other pilots).
If you don't believe me, just take a stroll around the feeders next time you're in DFW, SAT, OAK, DEN and other places the DC8 flies into. Let me know about what you find. If you live around DFW, send me a pm, maybe we can meet up during a turn.

 

[de727ups]

UPS has never had a crew base in Europe. I'm pretty sure I know the female F/O you speak of living in France. She was based in Louisville but was senior enough to hold Europe trips so living in France worked for her. We fly to about 10 or 15 cities in Europe. Star and other contractors do the rest, supposedly because it's illegal for us to fly those routes.

"I've been at several UPS hubs (not SDF) and the feeder pilots are litterally treated like cr@p."

Sorry UPS treats you like "cr@p"...get used to it....it's just the way they like to work things. The limo in DEN is rare treatment. It's usually a van or a taxi. The DEN gateway is one of the worst...they hate ALL pilots there and have for years. I used to fly into Stapleton for Corporate Air in the late 80's and it was the same way. We used to stay at a Holiday Inn in DEN...not sure anymore but it was the same hotel several airlines, including regionals, put their crews. I'll say this, we get what we get because we have a union. If it was up to UPS, we'd be double bunking at the Motel Six because it costs less. That's why we have a UNION...to make sure they can't do that to us and to basically improve our working conditions.

 

[GoABX]

FDX/UPS in Europe is the same as AStar/ABX in the U.S.

Brown&Purple have been 'legally' screwing with DHL for years to protect their home turf. If it was your business and you had the resources you'd do it too. In many ways it's purpose is to delay the inevitable. . . while everyone is waiting FDX/UPS is making money and tying up DHL resources. To a degree it has worked, DHL/Astar/ABX have not gone balls to the walls because to be prudent they have to wait until the final ruling is in. They can't appear presumptious.

THE BATTLE is about to begin. UPS/FDX have been getting their ducks in a row in Europe and Asia (DHL's strength) and DHL is getting ready in the US (FDX/UPS's strength). DHL will probably do some price cutting to gain market share. They have to achieve critical mass to stop the financial bleeding in their US operation. The real danger to all of us is a price war, which will spell the commodization our service. It's happened in the pax airlines, cell phones, PCs, etc. If something is commodized nobody makes any money over the long haul.

If DHL cuts prices, FDX/UPS should NOT respond. Airborne has always been cheaper, but we haven't really gained marketshare in a decade. At the beginning of every year UPS raises prices, one to four weeks later FedEx follows suit and finally Airborne does the same. This process needs to continue if we are all to prosper (survive).

3 years ago Fdx/Ups screwed Airborne with "Bundling." In effect they threatened our express customers (whom we serviced more cheaply) with either you give us all your business or we won't give you our ground service. It worked. DHL may try the same tactic against FDX/UPS by bunding domestic and international. It will work if they can't build out their global system quickly enough. If all 3 competitors can offer comparable services, the bundling hammer will be ineffective.

This however brings us to the second level of problem. If all three have worldwide logistic systems, will there be over-capacity? If so we are in the same boat as the pax carriers, different road to commodization.

In the end I want:
- Astar/ABX to triple in size in the next decade. (Still wouldn't be a insurmountable threat to UPS/FDX)
- UPS captains to make $24,000/month (so the rest of us can shoot for 80% of that)
- US pilots to freight all over the world and not lose out to foreign sleeze bag outfits who will do it for 10 cents on the dollar.
- Pilots to realize that ALPA, Teamsters and all unions are businesses whom lookout for themselves first and their membership second. (National) Unions are necessary but not faultless. Pilots from different companies need to think globally and help each other to elevate the profession.

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

UPS Pilot base in France... LOL Its funny, No One listens... NO UPS PILOT BASES IN EUROPE. Write this down because it will be good to know info at your UPS interview. 3 pilot domiciles... SDF, MIA, ONT... Thats it!!! Anyway you cut it, no matter who you see in differents parts of the world, pilots living where ever, in the world, there domiciled at one of those 3 bases. END OF SUBJECT!!!! I hope...

I thought we were going for beers????

 

[AceCrackshot]

BigBrown-
Isn't there a mechanism in the contract where if your aircraft overday's in a city, say ORD, you can have your trips built out of that city?

GoABX-
Quite honestly, that was one of the better posts on this site in long time. I could tell you've condensed your argument somewhat. Could you go into more detail on your commidization argument? How do the ACMI/Specialized carriers (Polar/Atlas, non skeds) fit into your model? PM me if you want.

Metrodriver-
Don't forget a bunch of little 99 and 1900 outfits that took it in the shorts with FDX/USPS thing. Plus a huge loss of flying when the USPS went to trucks. Try mailing anything to the Pac NW from some places. Standby to wait, wait some more, and then start waiting.

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

I can only speak to domestic trips, 85% are built from our out stations to the hubs and then back to the out stations, not the other way around like a commerial carrier carring passengers. Pilots usually commercial to work and commercial home at the end. But as far as domiciles, refer to my previous post... Cya

 

[General Lee]

BigbrownDC8,

Are you and FE or an FO? Do you like the DC-8? And, are the trips good out of your domicile on the DC-8? I know this was a DHL thread, sorry....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

General... PM me... Cya