DHL/ASTAR hiring

[hvydriver]

>We are all paying for the difficult times when guys are forced to take lower paying jobs.<

FedExpert,

I'm not sure if you meant that Astar is a "lower paying job" or not. In case you did, FYI, I did 217k last year, and only worked about 5 months out of the year. Our 401k is the best in the industry. It caps out at 15% of gross income in contributions by the company, plus whatever we want to put into it. 5 weeks of vacation a year, (top end) which with a week on, week off schedule can (and has for me) translate into multiple weeks off on vacation! Astar is a good place to work, and 100% American. If that's a lower paying job, I'll take it all day long!

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Hvydriver,

That is impressive. I had no idea. I need to learn more about Astar.

 

[BoilerUP]

Is the DHL contract that is posted on www.airlinepilotcontracts.com still the contract ASTAR is operating under, or do they have a new contract?

 

[hvydriver]

FlyBoeingJets,

No problem. I don't generally put out what I earn or what my bennies are, (that's just the highlights) but I've about had enough of people spouting the UPS/FedEx Public Relations line, with no desire to learn the facts on their own. It troubles me that people today are so willing to go with the "sound bite" rather than form their own reasoned opinions on issues. You might want to go to the link I pasted to BigBrownDC8. That will explain it all to anyone who cares to be educated about this issue. There are over 600 documents filed there, as this has been going on for years. For the short version, just read the Judge's decision on page 12. For those who can't be troubled to be informed, I can't be bothered to debate with them. (You can't debate someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.) As to our site, it's:

www.astaraircargo.us

 

[hvydriver]

BoilerUp,

Yes it is. We'll be starting negotiations for the next contract in Q2.

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Ok,
So I appreciate the information here about ASTAR, With that being said, I still contend that the DP is calling the shots for ASTAR. Here is an example: DP gives ABX/DHL a rate of $5.00 a LBS for shipments to Europe and UPS/FedEx/everyone else (US) has to charge $6.00 or $8.00. DP can undercut the market in the US because they own the market in Europe, in fact, they have a monopoly on it, there is an unfair relationship between DP and ASTAR and it translates in unfair practices for DP and its Subs. Because of this, American carriers will be undercut and yes, lose business to you guys. Yeah, thats great for you all, but in the long run bad for American business. Kinda like the example I used earlier about certain Airlines wanting to extend the number of hours you can fly in any given 24 hour period. Good for a few, bad for many. Let me be clear though, Ive got nothing "personal" against the pilots, Were all just wiggling the sticks. Maybe my comments about ASTAR going out of business was rash, but I will tell you, the relationship between ASTAR and the DP stinks...

As for Star, Yes, I know who they are. Do your homework, UPS doesnt own them, there our subs and we only allow them to fly what were not allowed to because of the EU rules. You see the difference is we are restricted by the EU as to how much we can fly in europe, the DP is (was) restricted in the USA as to how much they can fly, but now since the DP and ASTAR have this "unique" relationship, the DP and ASTAR can move on into the good ole USA and take our jobs.
This might on the surface sound great, Fair business practice, right? Wrong! The DP is minpulating the market through ASTAR unfairly. The US has rules governing this, but unfortunately a US judge has found this not to be the case. I can assure you, its not over.

As for ASTAR putting UPS/FedEx out of business. I can only speak for UPS. Not to sound too cocky... I dont think UPS is gonna just lay down and watch the DP/ASTAR take their business. This is a VERY large Brown machine, over 32 billion in gross revenue annually, thats right, with a "B"... Now I know the DP might have simular Annual numbers, but I know DHL/ABX is not even in the same hemisphere... Good luck!!!

PS. Yes, you guys have a good contract, That I agree with... Cya

 

[FedExpert]

hvydriver,

No need to get defensive. In case you haven't noticed some other companies have taken large pay hits. Many have ended up with much lower paying jobs and worse schedules than a few years ago. Concessions made by one group indirectly affect us all.

 

[BoilerUP]

As for Star, Yes, I know who they are. Do your homework, UPS doesnt own them, there our subs and we only allow them to fly what were not allowed to because of the EU rules.

And this is different than DHL/Deutsch Post and ASTAR how?

You see the difference is we are restricted by the EU as to how much we can fly in europe, the DP is (was) restricted in the USA as to how much they can fly, but now since the DP and ASTAR have this "unique" relationship, the DP and ASTAR can move on into the good ole USA and take our jobs.

I must be missing something, because from the information people have posted here, I don't see how the relationships of UPS/Star and DHL/Astar are any different. UPS can't operate in the EU, so Star does it for them. DHL can't operate in the US, so ASTAR does it for them. How is that different? You basically are claiming that DHL (and hence Deutsch Post) is pulling the strings of ASTAR...but isn't that exactly what UPS is doing with Star?

Isn't it possible (probable) the name ASTAR was chosen in spite of Star?

As a young college student/CFI, I am WAAAAAAAAAAY more worried about the cabotage bill that Sen. Stevens got passed recently and it's long-term effects, than any manipulation (actual or fabricated) of ASTAR by DHL Worldwide Express. I seriouslly doubt ASTAR/ABX will ever put UPS and/or FedEx out of business, but I can see them taking a sizable chunk of business away from both, thus ending the cargo duoply.

I honestly think that UPS and FedEx are scared of what might happen to their bottom lines if growth takes place at ASTAR, and rightfully so...but not to the point of tying up the court system with mistruths and lies painting ASTAR as a German trojan horse. The sandbox is big enough for all....

 

[hvydriver]

>As for Star, Yes, I know who they are. Do your homework, UPS doesnt own them, there our subs and we only allow them to fly what were not allowed to because of the EU rules. You see the difference is we are restricted by the EU as to how much we can fly in europe, the DP is (was) restricted in the USA as to how much they can fly<

BigBrownDC8,

That is my point precisely. Not to sound uppity, but it is you who should do your homework. Our function in the US is the same as STAR's is in Europe. And since Star in Europe exists solely to fly UPS material there, do you for one second _seriously_ believe that UPS does not tell Star where to fly to, or how often? That does not constitute control. That's been proven time and again in _all_ of the hearings that we've been subjected to. Including the ALJ hearing. (Which, by the way, is the very top of the chain at DOT, prior to a Decisionmaker's final ruling.) DHL/DP _does not own one thin dime_ of Astar. DHL/DP _still_ cannot fly in the US. We fly for them, on a _per hour basis_, just like any other ACMI carrier does. We could care less what DHL charges anyone for anything, as long as they pay our company what is agreed to in our ACMI. As to corporate size, both UPS and DHL, in the total size thing, are about the same. (If you are looking at the global picture.) We (Astar) are also out looking for other business to do as well. One thing we do is fly for the DOD, in support of our troops. I do that frequently myself.

>DP can undercut the market in the US because they own the market in Europe, in fact, they have a monopoly on it<

And UPS/FedEx have over 80% of the market in the US. It's a duopoly over here. We can play word games all day long, or we can debate the laws of the land instead.

>I dont think UPS is gonna just lay down and watch the DP/ASTAR take their business.<

I don't think anyone thinks that they will. And you really need to get over the DP/Astar thing. Astar doesn't market moving boxes. We just fly them. All I want UPS/FedEx to do is go after DHL in the marketplace, and quit spending huge bucks trying to shut down the US company that I've worked over 15 years for. (I'm not worried about that. It's over now, as far as them harrassing us is concerned.) Like I said earlier, if you want to be informed, go read the Judge's decision, Brown. I made it as easy as I could for you to find it. "Knowledge is power".

 

[hvydriver]

FedExpert,

If I sound defensive, I apologize. However, the end statement of your post sounded as if Astar was a bad job. I'm merely presenting facts to dispel any rumors that are out there.

 

[hvydriver]

80for80,

I don't _think_ I make good money now. I _know_ I do. Further, we are guaranteed our current level of flying (at minimum) at our current rates for 11 years. We also have first right of refusal for_any and all_ new routes in the US. I'm not worried about it. Neither is our BOD. Now go to your room.

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

To properly put this in to context,
The good comparison should not be UPS/FedEx and Star to DP/ASTAR, thats mixing capitalisim with a Govt entity (apples and oranges). To make your point, a proper comparison would be US Post office (making special deals with UPS... they dont) to DP/ASTAR (they do). But then again, To make my point, my first comparison is exactly the point Im making in reverse. DP is a Govt agency, competing (unfairly) with capitalist entities like(UPS/FedEx)... Does that make sence? If not, Hopefully, we can agree to dis-agree and still buy each other a round of beers. Like I said B4, We just wiggling the stix anyway, right? I dont mean to make such a big deal about this. I dont sit up at night thinking about DP/ASTAR, really I dont, I have a life. And my comment about hoping you all go out of business, Sorry, Marine Crops mouth speaking B4 I think... I guess I should have never chimed in on this.

My original post on page one should have read like this...

DHL/ABX are great companies, they have a good contract. Congrates to another Freight Dawg Org for making life so good for so many of us. Cya on the radios... Cya

 

[metrodriver]

DHL is big in Europe and the rest of the world and relatively small in the US. Why? because for the longest time they have concentrated on a truly global market while UPS and Fedex started doing that just about 10 years ago (they first built up the US customer base). UPS has a crew base in Paris with US crews flying all over Europe. DHL does not have European crews in the US. In fact they use locally licensed crews in their respective bases (England, Belgium, USA).
Deutsche Post is not a government entity anymore. It is privatized (European Union ruling) and can therefore invest in what it wants. What do you think of Fedex flying USPS stuff? I lost my job (and 1500 others with me) because of that deal, should never have happened.
All the carriers that fly DHL painted planes are independent carriers:Astar, EAT, SNAS and a few others.
UPS carries a lot stuff for the masses, relatively cheap stuff. DHL generally has a higher dollar in the boxes and is mostly business oriented (shows best around Christmas, people don't want to pay DHL's price to ship their gifts). But if you want to send something overseas there is no faster way than DHL.
As a feeder pilot I rather dealt with DHL than UPS. DHL: scales to know exactly how much weight is where in the airplane, drivers loading the plane, use of crew facilities. UPS: don't know how much freight is where (if the nose strut is not fully extended or compressed the plane might be within w+b limits, pilots have to load / unload the plane (saves UPS $20.-/hr for a driver) and you're not even allowed to get a cup of coffee out of the crew lounge or get a printed weather briefing.
Payscales at red / brown / purple are about the same (see air inc's magazine).
And how about the predatory buying of companies that UPS does to get routes? Does Challenge Aircargo ring a bell? Flew flowers out of S.America with refregirated 757's, UPS buys them for the routes and ever since it's been difficult to get the flowers to the US.
So please stop about DHL killing the market. If anyone does it's UPS.

 

[JayDub]

To make your point, a proper comparison would be US Post office (making special deals with UPS... they dont) to DP/ASTAR (they do). But then again, To make my point, my first comparison is exactly the point Im making in reverse. DP is a Govt agency, competing (unfairly) with capitalist entities like(UPS/FedEx)... Does that make sence?

Now that is interesting. Explain to me, again, how FedEx getting the postal contract in this country was done in a fair and proper way? You're right, USPS doesn't have a special deal with UPS. Some folks might beg to differ when it comes to FedEx, however...


Respectfully,

JayDub

 

[hvydriver]

BigBrownDC8,

I thank you for your offer of a brewski. I'll return the offer. No offense has been taken by me on any points you've made. While you are correct that for the moment, DP is still partially owned by the German government, it is now a minority stake, which is scheduled to be completely sold to private interests by '07. It will probably be prior to that. I wouldn't be too worried about illegal subsidies from DP's postal earnings, though. After the fines DP got for doing that domestically (in Germany) they are on a much tighter leash now. If the EU caught them blending funds from their postal subsidies with DHL, it's a very safe bet that the EU would fine them to the point of economic non-viability.

If I seem to be short tempered in my postings on this issue, it's due to the fact that all of this is _very_close to home for me. My co-workers and I have been enduring this harassment for a lot of years now. I've got friends at Purple/Brown myself. We all give each other grief about work stuff, but at the end of the day, all of us understand that this is really about keeping the competition out. It's not about violating any US laws. That's been proven over and over again in the past 4 years or so, with informal and formal hearings, all the way to the end of the legal process, (save for the final ruling by the Decisionmaker at DOT, which should happen sometime about mid-Febuary) all brought about by Purple/Brown. It has cost my little company a boat load of money to fight this battle. It's good for the legal side of things to finally be over.

As to our customer (DHL) undercutting Purple/Brown, I don't think that is going to happen. There've been quite a few press releases by DHL that there will be no decrease in shipping rates in the US. And since DHL is pricer than either Purple/Brown, I don't see that you've got too much to worry about.

 

[hvydriver]

Metrodriver,

I notice that you have 727 time, but you're on furlough. Did you get laid off due to FedEx getting the postal contract?

 

[AV8OR]

hvydriver,

My guess is metro driver might be former KH or Ryan maybe affected by some of the postal contract shift...just a guess.

As for 80for80,

You sure seem to be mighty confident in your assertions about the future of Astar and ABX Air. Either way, yours is a view from the sideline. Enjoy the show.

 

[AV8OR]

80for80

80for80,

Hey I did a little search a second ago and it appears, by the various forums you´ve contributed to, your primary job other than flying the CRJ, is crappin in everybody´s wheaties that likes their job and uses this board. It also appears that some of those people may know who you are and think you fly for American Eagle. If so, enjoy that 15 year no strike clause. There´s whole bunch of former Eagle drivers at Astar that thought better. For the rest of you Eagle guys, (and girls), come on over, the water´s warm.

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Metrodriver,
I just wanted to address a few of the things that you addressed in you post then its beer time...

UPS doesnt have a Pilot Domicile in Paris. SDF, MIA and ONT (Louisville, Miami, Onterio all in the USA)... Thats all, Now maybe there is some type of Star base there, That I dont know about, NO US CREWS BASED IN EUROPE!!!!!

The German Govt does still have an interest (Maybe small, but still an interest) in the DP.

Im giving you an invite out to SDF, Believe me, UPS can sort 500,000 packages an hour in SDF and they know exactly what and how much is in each container. I dont know where you get your info from, maybe its something they have in Europe that Im not aware of. If Im wrong about something going on in Europe, I appologize. But here in the USA, Its all maticulously done (Exact)... Wx and coffee, This must be things going on over there, Like I said, Come on out to SDF, Coffee, Wx, Its all there for the taking...

The comment about UPS and Business. Completely wrong. UPS is all about Business, Not just in shipping but in Freight forwarding, business loans, wearhousing, You name it and UPS does it, not to mention, they market to business, not the GP. But of course, we will work with the GP and give them a great rate...

As for FedEx/USPS... not my baby, Im not sure about the agreement there, You might be right on that one.

Were currently in contract Neg. Were going to try to up the Bar a bit on our next contract, not just for Freight Dawgs. but we'd also like to maintain the salary level DAL currently has for the industry. Wish us luck...

What kind of beer do you like. Call me a wimp... Im a Coor light man, (from Tx and all...)

May we all have blue skies and warm layovers... Cya...

 

[metrodriver]

Avi8or and hvydrvr, you are both correct on where I was working and why I got furloughed. And it was just not only KH or Ryan. How about Express One, Emery, Cappy and.......
Brown DC8:A few (about 8) years back I met a female F/O who was living in Paris and based in Paris for UPS. She didn't want to upgrade because she liked living in Europa and flying there. So maybe UPS had to close its crewbase there and hire some European carrier to haul their stuff.
Regarding weighing the freight: Yes, for the big planes. For the feeders they show up with a can and start loading your plane without knowing how much weight is where and later they show up with another can (of which it's weight is not known at the time of loading the first, since they are still sorting it). So if the first one weighs 800 lbs and takes up 2/3rds of the plane, what will happen when the second one weighs 2500 lbs? Of course it will get stuffed into the plane somehow and the loaders (at the hub they load for you, not at the outstations) will tell you it's all evenly loaded, eventhough the nosewheels are barely touching the ground. If you tell them to reload it everybody will get angry because now you will have a delayed departure. And this is all in the US. I've been at several UPS hubs (not SDF) and the feeder pilots are litterally treated like cr@p. Like I said earlier: pay for some stale coffee out of a machine, no printed weather (Oh yeah, UPS won't even let you use a computer to get Duats, you have to use the 1800wxbrief approach and write it on a piece of paper). At some places they won't even escort you of the ramp to use a bathroom (we're too busy) and UPS won't help you get a ramp i/d. And yes, load 3500lbs of boxes in 100 degree weather, hope you don't drop anything on your feet, climb in the cockpit that's 140 degrees and rush to get the heck out of there. The drivers are almost all the time late, but any late departure comes on the plate of the pilot (does union contract for the drivers ring some bells?). DHL knows the weight of the can and weighs every package at the bottom of the beltloader so you know exactly how much weight is in which compartement. I guess buying some scales will cost too much money for UPS and the feederpilots are employed somewhere else, so who cares if something happens.
I would love to get a job at UPS flying the big stuff and get treated like a king (limo rides to and from the hotel in DEN for example instead of having to wait outside for 30 minutes for a bus and getting a sightseeing tour of the airport before ending up in some crappy hotel where you got to share a room with some other pilots).
If you don't believe me, just take a stroll around the feeders next time you're in DFW, SAT, OAK, DEN and other places the DC8 flies into. Let me know about what you find. If you live around DFW, send me a pm, maybe we can meet up during a turn.