Details about the near-crash in Germany

[waveflyer]

Lear- don't write things like that and then inject pessimism. You have it- dead to rights. Very well written again. We ARE at a point where every pilot knows that the status quo does not work. A good leader could accomplish so many good changes in this environment. I'll cheers you too:beer:

 

[JoeMerchant]

Actually, Joe, the results might surprise you. Rez is a safer bet, because he's not advocating drastic change and the unknown.

Pilots don't like not knowing what will happen next; it scares the crap out of them. A complete restructuring is what is needed, but that's why I say I don't think it will happen: the senior guys will hate it because they won't recapture their lost wages (or as much as they can get) right before retirement and just enough mid- and junior- level guys would be scared of what it would bring next and, similar to Rez, might completely doubt its efficacy.

I'm an idealist, always have been. Gets me singled out sometimes (as we obviously have seen at AAI), and sounds good, but getting the membership on board with that drastic of a change at 7 different major airlines would be a feat.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, though. :beer:

....unfortunately you are correct...Rez is the status quo and with the apathy combined with the status quo cheerleaders....The reformers don't have a chance.....

That is why I am pulling for the USAPA vote.....I don't agree with them per say and I believe the USAir pilots did this to themselves in a sense....but I would like ALPA to get a wake up call and I believe it is time to challenge the status quo.....

I'm not much for the "safer bet"......many times it isn't "safer" in the long run....

:beer:

 

[DairyAir]

10,000 ft before the end of the runway? Dude you are so full of sheiss it must be coming out of your ears! Just how long a runway were you on? Did your little 20 series have afterburners?

 

[Lear70]

I see you've never flown one so you don't understand... Let me explain it to you.

Liftoff before the FDM (more than 9,500 feet remaining), gear up, shallow climb, aircraft accelerates to 200 kts in less than 7 seconds, flaps up, pitch up to 18 degrees, do not reduce thrust from takeoff setting. approx 6,000 - 7,000 ft runway remaining, traveling forward 3 miles per minute going up 2-3 miles per minute (approx).

You are now traveling upwards at 12,000-15,000 feet per minute. The Lear can hold this energy until almost 20,000 feet (it's fun when ATC asks your altitude and rate of climb on radar because the TRACON facility can't track you because your vertical movement is higher than your lateral movement).

40 seconds or so later, you're at 10,000 feet, look down below you, see the runway edge beneath your wing. Maybe an extra 1,000 feet past the threshold but, you get the picture. It's a rocket, it's not for the faint of heart, and I forgot how much I love it!

So, yes, 10,000 feet AGL by the runway end. Actually had it documented once in IAD (although in all fairness, Dulles has a long-a*s runway), along with the fastest time-to-climb to 41,0 ever documented in a Lear (until some Lear 29 guy bumped my spot)

This airplane will do amazing things when it's empty and has only a partial fuel load at low outside air temperatures. All within legal FAR limits, safely operated, just done so smoothly, firmly, and respectfully of her limits.

Sounds kind of familiar...

 

[PCL_128]

Lear is dead on....

Straw poll folks.... Who would you rather have in a position of leadership in ALPA...

Rez or Lear?

They're both friends of mine, but (sorry Lear) it's Rez all the way. Some of Lear's points are on target, but many are way off. Rez has the experience and know-how to get things done.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

That's an evasive answer you just gave, and most pilots don't like that... it erodes trust, which erodes confidence, which kills participation. Leadership 101.

Combined with reality... many pilots don't want to deal with that either... they just wanna "get thiers"

Yes, the senior will oppose this. It then falls to ALPA National to do the right thing or suffer the further splintering of groups as contracts erode further and further.

A little pixie dust and fairy trust will help too.... Why is it ALPA Nat'l responsibility to bend the senior guys? Don't the senior guys have a right to do what they think is in thier best intrests?

The RJDC and USAPA are just symptoms of a deeper-routed problem INSIDE ALPA. Fix the disesase, not the symptoms.

agreed!

Where the hell did the Bush admin come into this? He's gone in 9 months anyway.

Sorry... what was I thinking... maybe PCL can help you on this one...

To you and me as Professionals? Absolutely not. I believe it's our obligation to do our best to stop the problem before it kills anyone. In a Leadership position in ALPA, that should be your priority... that's what Leadership is: taking the initiative to do the right thing for your pilots, your profession, and the flying public.

Agreed... problem is...what is right for you is different for me... take age 60/65.. changing the rule to 65 for the 55 year and older crowd was the right thing... but not for the younger crowd... right is relative... in this case... (in coming!!!)

I beg to differ. What YOU think shapes your actions and whether or not you choose to fight for something. If you believe it's a lost cause, you won't fight for it. If you believe it's worth fighting, you will. Basic human nature.

Agreed... I think this profession is worth fighting for... most pilots think this profession is worth thier leadership fighting for them....


see the difference? I am ready to man up and fight... most pilots cower in the fox hole and say... go fight for my career...

We will see how many pilots show up on Wall Street to march with the CAL pilots...

This is why it's of the UTMOST IMPORTANCE to elect union officials who are motivated, goal-oriented, and self-starters.

Agreed... here is our problem... what do you do when "motivated, goal-oriented, and self-starters" don't step up and volunteer to run for office.

What does a pilot group do when a management suck up and a ego manic are the only two choices?

True. So what are you going to do in your elected Leadership role? I know fighting for daily enforcement of your contract and working on negotiations that never seem to end is important, but someone has to pay attention to the "bigger picture".

Agreed.... but what do we do as members...? Play the mexican standoff with our careers?

No one at National seems up to the task.

Agreed.... how'd those taskless ALPA national guys get there? Appointment? Coup?




Self government and democracy require responsibility....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

....unfortunately you are correct...Rez is the status quo and with the apathy combined with the status quo cheerleaders....The reformers don't have a chance.....

Actually Joey I am more of a reformer than you think... your problem is instant gratification....

you want change yesterday... so do I.... but guys like you, with your attitude only get uninvited to the table.... you don't have the patience, skillset and leadership.... your past performance (LEC S/T and RJDC) is proof enough...

All you do piss people off.. you create anger, regression and walls of uncooperation...

That is why I am pulling for the USAPA vote.....I don't agree with them per say and I believe the USAir pilots did this to themselves in a sense....but I would like ALPA to get a wake up call and I believe it is time to challenge the status quo.....

And here is my point.... you want emotional/instant gratification even as you admit you don't agree...

I'm not much for the "safer bet"......many times it isn't "safer" in the long run....

It has nothing to do with safer. It has to do with realistic expectations... something we have a problem with.... optimisim is valuable... but realism is pragmatic....

Too many guys want to change methodologies... with good intentions but poor deliveries they quickly burn out, get shut out and then become pessimistic regressors....

The trick is to stay at the table.... not to be a quitter...

 

[spg2bmd]

Good lord, that was terrible decision making, followed by good decision making, thats all. Glad no one was killed. Id sure feel like an arse... But, since we are all monday morning quarterbacks... I wouldnt have done that crap!

 

[Colonel Savage]

Anyone have a metar for that day? If it was as bad as they say on the news, then why didn't they insist on the other runway first?

You may not believe this, but they were offered the other rwy first, and declined it because it had a non-precision approach vs the other rwy which had the ILS.

Looks like a couple of bad calls were made.

 

[bubbers44]

She had 600 hrs? How much in the AB320? That explains the whole thing.