Despite union opposition, Flight Options moved forward...

[doh]

Like I said, this is the everyeth time Oneguy management has been proven wrong in court...

Warturd, are you still not embarrassed???

 

[warlord19]

Duuhhhh, you ole dog you…I thought you would allow a sleeping dog(me) to sleep….isn’t anyone paying attention to you today?

Embarrassed about what? I’ll admit your mullet-headed visage on the VUH is quite, uh, charming, but it doesn’t embarrass me, if that’s what your asking.

I was just enjoying life on some off days, sitting back eating popcorn, sipping a Bud and reading about all the goings-on here and there. So far the IBT has screwed a dozen folks or so, and the body count might be as high as 70 b4 it’s over….a lot of guys could sure use that money the IBT has kept from them. I hear that since you put away your flight attendant pumps and skirt and went to flight school that your significant other is able to provide your needs without you even having to work, and so I understand your willingness to throw all these pilots under the bus for your “principles”…your such a swell fellow. And now some of your lemmings are preparing for the Flex FOLKS to accept a pay cut with some of the latest postings, something you can be especially proud of.

Your Uncle promised he wouldn’t/couldn’t work with the IBT after all their *hit storms descended on us, and he seems to be trying to keep that commitment. This place isn’t a good place to work anymore, and, if it survives, you might consider starting a PROFESSIONAL union…it needs one.

I noticed a few lemmings getting off the IBT reservation and actually criticizing them for being the fools they are…..guess they were forced into re-education camps and now understand the error of their ways.

Popcorn ’s getting low. Sure enjoyed the chat, Duuuuuuhhh…we’ll have to do this more often.
WL

 

[Dooker]

Duuhhhh, you ole dog you?I thought you would allow a sleeping dog(me) to sleep?.isn?t anyone paying attention to you today?

Embarrassed about what? I?ll admit your mullet-headed visage on the VUH is quite, uh, charming, but it doesn?t embarrass me, if that?s what your asking.

I was just enjoying life on some off days, sitting back eating popcorn, sipping a Bud and reading about all the goings-on here and there. So far the IBT has screwed a dozen folks or so, and the body count might be as high as 70 b4 it?s over?.a lot of guys could sure use that money the IBT has kept from them. I hear that since you put away your flight attendant pumps and skirt and went to flight school that your significant other is able to provide your needs without you even having to work, and so I understand your willingness to throw all these pilots under the bus for your ?principles??your such a swell fellow. And now some of your lemmings are preparing for the Flex FOLKS to accept a pay cut with some of the latest postings, something you can be especially proud of.

Your Uncle promised he wouldn?t/couldn?t work with the IBT after all their *hit storms descended on us, and he seems to be trying to keep that commitment. This place isn?t a good place to work anymore, and, if it survives, you might consider starting a PROFESSIONAL union?it needs one.

I noticed a few lemmings getting off the IBT reservation and actually criticizing them for being the fools they are?..guess they were forced into re-education camps and now understand the error of their ways.

Popcorn ?s getting low. Sure enjoyed the chat, Duuuuuuhhh?we?ll have to do this more often.
WL

At least Doh's willing to stand up for something. And what about you? When was the last time you took a stand for anything worth naming? You never have and you never will, and smugness is no stand-in for courage or character.

I'll admit this Union isn't perfect. But nothing that requires a bunch of folks with competing interests and ideas to come together ever is perfect. And therein lies the beauty of it, not that you'll ever see it.

This Union, whether you've noticed or not, keeps getting stronger. Every time one of the company's asinine lawsuits gets tossed out by some federal judge who can barely keep from laughing in the company lawyer's face, it gets stronger.

There's an old saying I'm fond of: a lie has wings, while the truth comes hobbling along. And that's what's been happening. The lies are slowly (ever so slowly) being overtaken by the truth. And if you think guys aren't beginning to notice, you're wrong.

Wherever it might all lead, I have no idea. But I'll take the side that stands for the truth over yours any day.

 

[993_Pilot]

Well said, once again, Dooker. For most of us, the union wasn't necessarily something we wanted until we worked a while under Ken Ricci. It took a while before the Options pilots supported the union like they do now, and that process is once again repeating for the Flexjet pilots. What Warlord doesn't seem to comprehend, is that the process of coming to terms with the need for a union under this management team is an evolution. Although that evolution still has a way to go, it is well under way, because Kenn Ricci can't seem to help himself, and eventually most will see his true colors, and recognize that a union, while far from perfect, is the only chance for fair treatment of ALL of the workers under Kenn Ricci and his management team.

 

[doh]

The only coherent part of that little rant is that he is still shameless. Management has a VSP in hand. An LOA for Options and an MOU for Flex pilots. So the union is off the hook for VSP. Management's refusal to sign what they negotiated is their fault. They are denying the furloughs money.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Now you are insulting dogs! You are so busy earning your brown noser award, you are unable to look around because your nose is wedged so tight between his butt cheeks.
Now, to make this simple even for you, this whole issue is about following the law, not about harming some of our own.

 

[warlord19]

Booker, just a few comments on your good post.

I’ve stood up to the IBT sh1tstorm here for quite a while to provide an alternative to the IBT…wasn’t fun but needed to be done. The IBT was voted in, I congratulated them here, and moved on. MulletHead(Duuuhhhh) asked me a question and I answered him. You say I should now help to strengthen the union….that’s like telling a veteran Cadillac salesman he will be selling the Yugo brand from now on…..I don’t think his heart(or mine) would be in it. The IBT hasn’t changed their stripes one bit and I couldn’t try to sell it to other crew-members because it would be obvious I wasn’t sincere…..it didn’t take NetJets FOLKS long to figure them out.

I would very much like to have a PROFESSIONAL union at SKY, but don’t believe that’s going to happen either. Lot’s of good FOLKS are leaving/have left as this ship continues to sink….whatever remains in a few years will be a mess. A hostile management team versus a hostile union won’t be a pleasant place to work.

You seem to have a good heart and head (unlike the MulletHead who has a permanent chip on his shoulder) and I wish you luck here…hope it works out for all.

WL

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

So WL, did you just wake up to what goes on in Ricci's world or did you see the writing on the wall and figure out your days are numbered as management? If you want, I will humble myself and welcome you back to the line.

 

[993_Pilot]

Booker, just a few comments on your good post.

I?ve stood up to the IBT sh1tstorm here for quite a while to provide an alternative to the IBT?wasn?t fun but needed to be done. The IBT was voted in, I congratulated them here, and moved on. MulletHead(Duuuhhhh) asked me a question and I answered him. You say I should now help to strengthen the union?.that?s like telling a veteran Cadillac salesman he will be selling the Yugo brand from now on?..I don?t think his heart(or mine) would be in it. The IBT hasn?t changed their stripes one bit and I couldn?t try to sell it to other crew-members because it would be obvious I wasn?t sincere?..it didn?t take NetJets FOLKS long to figure them out.

I would very much like to have a PROFESSIONAL union at SKY, but don?t believe that?s going to happen either. Lot?s of good FOLKS are leaving/have left as this ship continues to sink?.whatever remains in a few years will be a mess. A hostile management team versus a hostile union won?t be a pleasant place to work.

You seem to have a good heart and head (unlike the MulletHead who has a permanent chip on his shoulder) and I wish you luck here?hope it works out for all.

WL

There you go talking like the IBT 1108 is some third party again (which is a typical management tactic) when you know full well that it is run by the pilots. Sure there are union supporters that sometimes act less than professional here on FI, but they aren't the leadership. Claiming that the elected leadership is anything less than professional is nonsense. In fact I would submit that they are generally more professional than their counterparts in management. At least they will sign something they agreed to instead of stalling and dragging everything out. Kind of makes you wonder if management ever really wanted to offer a VSP or if it was just another ruse designed to undermine the authority of the union, and sew discontent among the pilot group. The more that they delay, the more that Kenn Ricci's true colors begin to show. Tic Toc

 

[doh]

Negotiation session today. Will they sign the VSP?

 

[shanes123]

Nope they won't. They appealed it in court no way their signing anything.

 

[doh]

"Don't give up, don't ever give up." That's what I'm going to try to do every minute that I have left.
Jimmy V
Don't lose faith shanes.

 

[doh]

Shanes, you were right. These people are the depth of depravity...smh...

 

[Honorstudent]

The VSP was signed by the 1108 president, however the company managers reniged on there handshake and agreement to sign it. Perhaps the federal judge will want an explanation about why the company failed to sign after agreeing to it and even shaking hands on it. Perhaps the judge will want to speak face to face with the one individual whom is calling all the shots for the company? KR.

 

[doh]

It would be nice to think the judge would address that problem individual.

 

[shanes123]

i knew that. still amazing this union doesn't have 99% solidarity. However I will say my time here is limited (I HOPE) I have spoken with someone I trust 100% who is in the loop. Seems that KR is not paying his bills again and not just FLEX/FLOPS but all his companies Nextant, Constant, Sentient, all of them. This source believes that the whole house of cards is in "Dire Straights". anyone that has a opportunity to leave I would recommend to pull the trigger and anyone knowing of jobs or opportunities can we please start posting them. maybe even start a new thread. Jobs For Options Pilots

 

[993_Pilot]

...Kind of makes you wonder if management ever really wanted to offer a VSP or if it was just another ruse designed to undermine the authority of the union, and sew discontent among the pilot group...

Well this shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone who has been paying attention. What was a surprise to me was that the union agreed to pretty much everything the company wanted, and yet they still rejected it. I wonder how many Flexjet pilots will still believe the anti-union spin that management will put on it?

...I have spoken with someone I trust 100% who is in the loop. Seems that KR is not paying his bills again and not just FLEX/FLOPS but all his companies Nextant, Constant, Sentient, all of them. This source believes that the whole house of cards is in "Dire Straights"...

I sure hope you are wrong, but fear you might be right at the same time.

 

[shanes123]

Yep I hope I am too. But I trust the source thats why I think we need to take control of our futures. anyone kn owing of jobs please start posting them. a job making a little less money is better then no job

 

[slowtation capt]

There are other investors. Stonebriar, etc....Let KR get escorted out a 2nd time.

 

[shanes123]

But where will that leave us Uber Drivers? Guess thats a decision we all need to make.


Over the years I have talked to many of our Millionaire customers and the one thing that seems consistent with the majority of them. They have told me " I am not smarter then anyone else I just got lucky" or " I was in the right place at right time" The question is: " Do you feel lucky punk?" "Well do ya?"

 

[Imissmypilot]

Well this shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone who has been paying attention. What was a surprise to me was that the union agreed to pretty much everything the company wanted, and yet they still rejected it. I wonder how many Flexjet pilots will still believe the anti-union spin that management will put on it?

I'm sure Kenn Ricci didn't plane it this way but this VSP debacle is perhaps the biggest gift he's ever given the union. At first his strategy looked to pay off in a big way but after the judge called his bluff it all went south on him in a big way. I am seeing more and more flex pilots every day running toward the light.

I'm not trying to bring up past history but many otherwise pro-union pilots are still bitter about SLI, even if reasonably they did better than they want to realize. But after this VSP dilemma even they have to admit a union is a pretty cheap insurance package if nothing else.

Question I heard from a VSP guy forced to come back: does he have legal grounds to sue the company if under subpoena people like Florian and Sullivan have to admit they used him as a pawn in their PR gamble? Interesting. I sure hope he goes so far as to ask a real lawyer that one.

As far as Kenn not paying the bills, surely you can't lay all that as his feet. The point I'm getting to here is there is a line of executives who are complicit in this game he is playing. Complicit when they shake hands and commit fraud. Complicit when they see contracts not honored. Complicit when they shrug off their fiduciary responsibilities to both employees and investors. As much as we like to paint Kenn Ricci as the ultimate villian here, I see a band of henchmen every bit as responsible as he is for the way this has gone down.

If one can read between the lines of both the negotiating report and judges ruling, if OneSky loses their appeal, then I fully expect to see some of these henchmen slapped back into reality. If you or I committed fraud or contempt of court we be thrown in jail. I for one hope that is a possibility here.

 

[shanes123]

True Dat

 

[doh]

That is a great post

 

[Dooker]

... I fully expect to see some of these henchmen slapped back into reality. If you or I committed fraud or contempt of court we be thrown in jail. I for one hope that is a possibility here.

And just who's supposed to do all this "slapping"? The man who stoops to such depths of mendacity as to try to pass off two years in the ROTC at Notre Dame as military flight training?

This guy is narcissist and sociopath and every other fancy word you'd care to pull from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. He's as incapable of truth-telling as my dog is of completing the New York Times Sunday crossword. He lies to his pilots, the lackeys and flunkies he has doing his dirty work, to his investors and, most disturbingly, to himself.

Bernie Madoff had a lot of help, as did Ken Lay and Allan Sanford. And the thing that all their enablers had in common was that they wanted to believe The Lie as desperately as their investors wanted to believe it.

This guy is bad news to everyone he comes in contact with and there is no contract in the world that will protect you from what's a comin'.

Run fast and run far.

 

[shanes123]

True Dat

Now can we get a list of jobs going? Maybe anyone knowing of any Job Fairs coming up? Or decent 91 gigs. Anything.

 

[exagony]

Warlord has been very silent about the company walking away from the VSP that was signed by the Union. It had everything the company wanted in it. So what's your spin on this one RH? It appears that once again the management team has proven who they really are, frauds and "yes men" who are more concerned with transfer pilots than FJ pilots.

 

[Bjtdrvr]

Most concerned about themselves over ANY pilot at the company!

 

[Imissmypilot]

And just who's supposed to do all this "slapping"? The man who stoops to such depths of mendacity as to try to pass off two years in the ROTC at Notre Dame as military flight training?

This guy is narcissist and sociopath and every other fancy word you'd care to pull from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. He's as incapable of truth-telling as my dog is of completing the New York Times Sunday crossword. He lies to his pilots, the lackeys and flunkies he has doing his dirty work, to his investors and, most disturbingly, to himself.

Bernie Madoff had a lot of help, as did Ken Lay and Allan Sanford. And the thing that all their enablers had in common was that they wanted to believe The Lie as desperately as their investors wanted to believe it.

This guy is bad news to everyone he comes in contact with and there is no contract in the world that will protect you from what's a comin'.

Run fast and run far.

A federal judge is the one who gets to slap them back, Dooker, and I definitely see that as a possibility here. Read his ruling again. There is not one shred of hope for the company in that ruling. He did everything but call them pejorative names. Yet they have the cajones to file an appeal? That doesn't take massive brass ones, that takes sheer stupidity. After the appeals court knocks it down, guess what judge gets it all back? And how receptive to leniency do you think he will be to learn the company took his ruling that basically said "you WILL negotiate in good faith and you WILL acknowledge the rights of representation to flexjet pilots" and ignored it?

SMH. Perhaps Kenn is going after the final trump card of ineffective counsel because it sure looks like he got bad advice on that front. I'm no lawyer but the companies attitude and actions post election just seems like a $hitstorm of stupidity, bravado, childishness and anger. Granted I've always been pro union but Dooker even some of the look at me Yammer crowd is starting to see the light. Within the past 2 weeks I've heard some very, very, VERY surprising changes of tune. In fact, one of them is even one my list of warlord possibilities (if it's not RH).

If I were some of these managers/executives I'd be thinking very hard right now about the risks they are taking by putting themselves on the front lines for a battle even Kenn is smart enough to stay physically away from. They are continuing to play these games for Kenn by proxy and that is a dangerous, foolish position.

Come on Dooker, RH'S own wife is lawyer! I know he likes to separate work and family (most likely for fear she'll hear about all the Waterview back room screws (literal for you Options guys) that take place) but seriously you'd think he'd at least ask over the pot roast what it means when a judge calls your argument specious.

So yes, Dooker, a federal judge gets to do the slapping. I don't know what kind of latitude the IBT has in recommending remedy but I'd start with asking him to make an example of what happens when you knowingly commit fraud and contempt for your back room boss who refuses to show up to negotiations, to court, to everything. I'd start with expecting him to define exactly what happens when you defy him and throw a few overnights at the taxpayers expense their way, if you know what I'm saying.

Politically, morally, ethically speaking something has to be done to stop the shenanigans that are happening at the expense of OUR CAREERS and OUR FAMILIES all so Kenn Ricci can continue his infantile feud with his own pilots. The only people he is hurting are his very own employees, not some nefarious entity that only exists in his mind. And from now on I hold every executive and manager who helps him continue to be personally responsible.

And you should too.

 

[doh]

^^^This^^^

 

[993_Pilot]

...This guy is narcissist and sociopath and every other fancy word you'd care to pull from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. He's as incapable of truth-telling as my dog is of completing the New York Times Sunday crossword. He lies to his pilots, the lackeys and flunkies he has doing his dirty work, to his investors and, most disturbingly, to himself....And the thing that all their enablers had in common was that they wanted to believe The Lie as desperately as their investors wanted to believe it....

Well said. Most everyone working for him comes to that conclusion eventually, but some will stick their proverbial head in the sand and still refuse to see it.

Warlord has been very silent about the company walking away from the VSP that was signed by the Union. It had everything the company wanted in it...

Not Everything. It didn't allow the company to cherry-pick who they wanted to award it to, errr get rid of, without revealing the names or anything else to the union. Pay, Age, Medical Insurance Claims, Union Support, etc. plenty of reasons for them to want that power. You are also making the assumption that they actually ever wanted it. I don't believe that they ever did, and the game they are playing is called "divide and conquer". The real end game, not only with the VSP, but everything else, is to give as many people a reason to hate the union as possible so they can attempt a decertification of the union when the time comes. They knew the union had a duty to contest the VSP and Kenn Ricci's hope is that those that applied for it will perceive that the union caused them to lose the VSP, and will resent/blame the union.

There is not one shred of hope for the company in that ruling. He did everything but call them pejorative names. Yet they have the cajones to file an appeal? That doesn't take massive brass ones, that takes sheer stupidity. After the appeals court knocks it down, guess what judge gets it all back? And how receptive to leniency do you think he will be to learn the company took his ruling that basically said "you WILL negotiate in good faith and you WILL acknowledge the rights of representation to flexjet pilots" and ignored it?

SMH. Perhaps Kenn is going after the final trump card of ineffective counsel because it sure looks like he got bad advice on that front. I'm no lawyer but the companies attitude and actions post election just seems like a $hitstorm of stupidity, bravado, childishness and anger....

The company is already on their third team of legal counsel, Harrison-Ford, Jones-Day, and now the latest group. I bet the first two teams were happy to rid themselves of having KR call the crazy shots, and probably quit. I seriously doubt that they think that they have any hope of winning the appeal, but they are keeping up appearances for the FoK, FoK wanna-be's and the naive, yet hopeful crowd, as part of the continued attempt to divide and conquer. They will probably have a few more tricks up their sleeve before it's over, but it is mostly about dividing and stalling in my opinion. I predict that they will surface negotiate or otherwise stall for the full nine months in an attempt to drag this out. All the while knowing that for the Grand Finale, they will intentionally let the arbitrator decide the open items of the contract and hope that a bunch more folks are dissatisfied with the CBA, and hence the union, as the 2 year decertification opportunity window draws near. There are plenty of differences in the pay and work rules for the three pilot groups already, so there is probably not too much risk in it because it is doubtful an arbitrator will award us an industry leading contract, and there is always plenty of dissatisfaction to go around, in any CBA.

I sure hope that I am wrong, but that is my best guess of how the company will continue to employ the general tactics of the Union Busting Playbook.