Depression

[Princedietrich]

This question came up at work last week and the lot of us were stumped, so I thought I'd pose the question here. If a pilot gets diagnosed with depression, the kind where "happy pill" medication would be required, is that an instant no-go with regards to getting a medical?

I figure I'll have to come up with an answer sometime in the coming week.

 

[Singlecoil]

NTSB Identification: ANC01FA093.
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). Please contact Records Management Division
Nonscheduled 14 CFR Part 135: Air Taxi & Commuter
Accident occurred Monday, July 30, 2001 in Haines, AK
Probable Cause Approval Date: 9/10/2002
Aircraft: Piper PA-32-300, registration: N39586
Injuries: 6 Fatal.
The certificated commercial pilot, with five passengers aboard, departed Skagway, Alaska, as the first of two airplanes conducting air tour flights over a national park. The standard route of flight after departure was to proceed southbound, climb over an area of steep mountainous terrain, then descend into an area known as Glacier Bay. The pilot of the second tour airplane said that it was apparent that low clouds, rain, and fog within the pass would not allow them to fly through the pass. He said that he and the other pilot discussed optional flight routes. The accident pilot said that he was going to take a heading of 240 degrees, and fly through to the other side. The pilot of the second airplane said he replied to the accident pilot that he thought that this was a real bad idea, and that he was not going to follow him. The second pilot stated that the accident pilot's final radio transmission was, in part: "...I'm sure that it's clear on the other side. I'll see you on the other side." No further radio communications were received from the accident airplane. After being notified of an emergency locator transmitter (ELT) signal, a search was initiated about 1600. Poor weather conditions hampered rescue crews from reaching the accident site. About 1859, the wreckage was located on an area of steep, snow-covered mountainous terrain. A toxicology examination of the pilot revealed the presence of prescription antidepressant drugs and codeine. The FAA prohibits the use of such drugs by pilots.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
The pilot's continued flight into known adverse weather conditions, and his poor in-flight decision making. Factors associated with the accident were clouds and mountainous terrain. A finding is the pilot's use of FAA prohibited drugs.

Full narrative available

 

[davidaviator]

If you take a depression medication - any hydrochoride, it will end your career. Just don't list them on the medical application. Use AOPA's Turbomedical to see which drugs are acceptable. The only two insomnia drugs approved are Sonata and Ambien.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Don't tell your AME you're depressed, unless you really want to go down that treacherous road.

Exercise, improve diet and seek therapy.

Psychotropic drugs should be a last resort.

 

[JediNein]

If you take a depression medication - any hydrochoride, it will end your career. Just don't list them on the medical application.

That's a good load of BS.

Six months off the drugs and free of depression is the typical FAA requirement to get back to flying. You could simply not renew the medical 'til reaching that point.

Lying is a good way to lose everything and be even more depressed.

There's an AME answering questions over at the forums at www.jetcareers.com. You might lurk on their medical forum for a bit. This question just came up and was answered.

Good luck!

 

[FirstMate]

Just have a drink or ten and your troubles and cares will be releaved.

 

[davidaviator]

How are you going to keep your job if they deny your medical and you're off flying status for six months?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

neveeeerminnnnd.

 

[learflyer]

Don't tell your AME you're depressed, unless you really want to go down that treacherous road.

Exercise, improve diet and seek therapy.

Psychotropic drugs should be a last resort.

that doesn't work for people who are clinically depressed, and diagnosed with it. your advice is good for someone who is just down in the dumps.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

that doesn't work for people who are clinically depressed, and diagnosed with it. your advice is good for someone who is just down in the dumps.

Your attitude is wrong. You must think the pharmaceutical kool-aid tastes just as good.

Before running off to a psychiatrist for your psychotropic band-aid, you might actually want to explore what's behind this feeling of depression. Pill popping is NOT the solution to many forms of so-called depression.

Years ago, pharmaceutical reps (they usually have a marketing or business degree - not a chemistry or pharm background) used to market their drugs to doctors directly. This entailed frequent office visits to coax the doctor into prescribing their product either exclusively or against a competitor. This was informational in that the doctor became aware of thier product and what purposes it may serve.

This left a lot of discretion to the doctor and rightly so. A patient might come in complaining of particular symptoms which the doctor would address and prescribe medicine if necessary. Things have changed since then. Selling pharmceuticals is no longer a business of healing, but of making products that turn a profit. Enter the consumer.

In recent years, the pharmaceutical lobby has helped change the rules allowing more public dissemination of their drugs. You have problably noticed the large increase in pharmaceutical products being heavily advertised on TV, in magazines, internet, on the radio and in billboards.

Some of these new medicines are for very frivolous things everyone has a little of. Some of these so-called ailments were non-existant a few years ago. In othe words, They pull a "Hallmark Card Holiday" so to speak. They CREATE a need by generating fear. This is nothing new to Madison Ave. Creating needs the consumer believes must be had in order to be normal. The basic message advertising delivers is that you aren't good enough or that no one will like you if you're not using our product.

The pharmceutcal companies are now empowered to market their drugs not only to the physician, but to a wider audience of consumers as well. This alone has helpe stimulate thier sales dramitcally.

People see an ad and begin to believe that they too may have this "restless leg syndrome," for instance. Medicines are being developed for profit and not for cure. Research money goes to drugs that will be big hits. Things that the average consumer might be persuaded into using.

We now have an increase in the amount of consumers visiting their physicians becasue they "feel" they have a particular problem. The "As Seen On TV" Syndrome. Look at the Ambien craze. Do you know how many people are rushing off to the doctor for prescriptions? It's no longer the doctors call. The patient walks in and demands that they be treated with a particlur medicine they saw on TV or read in a magazine ad. The symptoms portrayed in these ads can be so obscure that most of us could possess them. Many doctors are aware of this direct-marketing campaign to consumers and dislike it. The pharmecuitcals love it. They are profiting exponetially by marketing to both ends.

Now getting back to the depression thing.

Depression is a natural state of mind. It's normal to feel depressed occasionally. It's our bodies way of telling us something in our lives is not quite right and needs some change. Modern society has made life very complex and fast paced. Technology hastens this along, leaving unhappiness in its wake. We require a rapid abilty to adapt to our constantly changing technology and its impact on societal relations.

With these depressed feelings, one should begin to do some introspection on their own or with a therapist. As I said before, psychotropic drugs should be a last resort. There are many other avenues which need to be explored before marching off to the doctor for a quick fix of the SSRI du jour.

A few changes in ones life (this may require a good deal of threapy to explore things and pinpoint potential issues) along with more exercise and a better diet WILL improve ones state of mind. It has been documented. Pill popping makes things easier on the doctor and worse on the patient. It's a quick fix. It is not a replacement for genuine and effective psycho or cognitive based therapy. Not all depression should be treated with a dose of medicine.

Many people have begun to think that their depressed and the knee-jerk reaction is to visit the doctor for some pills they saw advertised, when in reality they may be more meloncholy.

Also, whether you want to believe it or not, these head medicines are quite powerful. Quite. And they come along with some side affects. The best thing a pharm company can wish for is your reliance and dependance on thier drug. They want you on that crutch.

I have a boat load more to say about this industry (as I have personal knowledge and experience in it), but won't bore you any further as this post is WAY too long.

 

[GogglesPisano]

How are you going to keep your job if they deny your medical and you're off flying status for six months?

Medical leave?

 

[Rxflyer]

If you take a depression medication - any hydrochoride, it will end your career. Just don't list them on the medical application. Use AOPA's Turbomedical to see which drugs are acceptable. The only two insomnia drugs approved are Sonata and Ambien.

Um, there's no such drug class as "hydrochloride".
And yes, I am a Pharmacist.

I do agree with Amish about consumer-driven Physician prescribing. The FDA really dropped the ball when they decided to allow pharmaceutical companies to directly advertise to the public.

 

[JediNein]

I do agree with Amish about consumer-driven Physician prescribing. The FDA really dropped the ball when they decided to allow pharmaceutical companies to directly advertise to the public.

Agree completely. ADD, depression, and GERD/acid reflux are way overprescribed, almost exactly like the increase in cold medicine advertisements and colds during the winter. . . makes ya wonder.

As an adjunct or in lieu of type treatment, take a look at David Burns "Feeling Good Handbook". It's an interesting way to think yourself out of a depression or at least lessen the severity of it.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Another suggestion is to visit the "Self-Help" section of your local bookstore.

You'll find plenty of reading material to help better understand what you may be going through.

Many times, what is construed as depression is really a lack of understanding one's self or feelings. Some of us do more introspection than others. These books wil assist you in learning about the human condition and its variables including mood and what casues swings in our emotional states.

The more you educate yourself on the human mind and it's fallibilities, and why these thoughts and moods take place, the better equiped you will be to deal with these issues.

A little spirituality and self correction can go a long way in improving ones spirit and overall mental health.

 

[learflyer]

once again, Depression is a disease. I don't have it, but it runs in my family. It is a chemical imbalance in your brain. I'm hardly the type to fall for these pharmaceutical driven commercials, either. You can't link depression with restless legs syndrome like it's some easy cure by going for a jog, or turning on the lights. What about Terry Bradshaw? He'd be with a crowd of people and have to leave because he has the urge to cry, and does. That's depression. It's documented. It's not something you can just "suck it up", or "tough it out". So are you trying to say that psychiatrists/cologists, are not needed? If someone gets depressed, all you have to do is go to Barnes N Noble and read a book?

 

[CA1900]

Stummies, anyone?

 

[davidaviator]

Haven't heard of a "hydrochloride". Prozac is Fluoxetine Hydrochloride. There are numerous others such as "Trazodone Hydrocholoride" used to treat insomnia, anxiety and depression. They are all listed at www. leftseat.com/psychotropic.htm.

"Better living through chemistry"

 

[earhart]

This thread is really bumming me out ......................no really. :crying:

 

[Amish RakeFight]

once again, Depression is a disease. I don't have it, but it runs in my family. It is a chemical imbalance in your brain. I'm hardly the type to fall for these pharmaceutical driven commercials, either. You can't link depression with restless legs syndrome like it's some easy cure by going for a jog, or turning on the lights. What about Terry Bradshaw? He'd be with a crowd of people and have to leave because he has the urge to cry, and does. That's depression. It's documented. It's not something you can just "suck it up", or "tough it out". So are you trying to say that psychiatrists/cologists, are not needed? If someone gets depressed, all you have to do is go to Barnes N Noble and read a book?

Dude, you're missing my point.

Let me make it more clear to you.

I am NOT against someone taking medicine for depression. In fact, it may be the only way to help severely depressed individuals. That I understand. My point was that depression needs to be explored before you drop a pill which alters your chemistry. These medicines have some very profound side effects. Believe me.

Most people when they feel mildly depressed run off to their doctor and demand a particular anti-depressant. A quick fix. America is known as a pill popping nation. Pop a pill to lose weight for instance, instead of regular diet and exercise. No different here.

You would be surprised by how effective life changes and perhaps career changes are as well. Someone may merely exhibit the traits of a clinically depressed person for reasons OTHER than a chemical imbalance. A change of partner and job might just do the trick. Being more honest with yourself in life and your expectations may solve things too. The problem is that most people want a quick remedy. They don't want to work to change things in thier lives or endure lengthy therapy.

Depression is a chronic disease and takes time to heal. Depression doesn't happen over night. It's a cumulative snowball effect of many things entering the minds processing facilities. The individual does not recognize it until it reaches a certain threshold. It can be reversed, but not without a good deal of unraveling what has essentially become depression. This takes time, and most people don't care to do so. They simply do not want to put in the effort.

Understand that most people are not depressed from the womb, but acquire certain character traits and personalities that leave them more prone to depression. Life is tough and it gets us down at times. Some individuals have difficulty coping with life and create defense mechanisms around them. Most are unaware of it unless you know what to look for. These faulty mechanisims and thoughts begin to consume our thoughts and feed the depressive nature. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Depression is insidious in that it gets worse and worse if not delt with. People with depression have a fear of thier illness and become weak, further compounding their situation.

Depression has become increasingly more abundant in our society and this is due more to changes outside of our chemistry. It is based in psychology. The rapidity of the world and the expectations of a fast moving sosicety lays very unrealistic expectations on all of us. Some are unable to cope and adapt. Things need to be mentally unpacked with a mental health professional before you delve into the world of head medicines. A little introspection and corrective mind exercises will help a lot. Reading books on depression and solutions or coping mechanisms WILL help. That is very ignorant of you to claim the opposite. Reading and understanding what one is going though is priceless and many times does more to help than the psychiatrist who cares more about getting you out the door with a script in under 45 minutes. Trust me.

The point is, one should seek other avenues before deciding that they want a quick fix medicine which can do more harm in the long run to your brain. These medicines in time will permanently rearrange your brains chemistry in that the serotonin and dopamine will no longer be able to properly function without the guidenace and activity of this synthetic drug.

I never said it's something to "suck it up" or "tough it out" and it will go away. Im telling you that there are other treatments that should be explored before jumping into medicine. I also said that mental health professionals ARE needed. Yet you somehow misread what I wrote and think that I said they arent needed?

And for the record, I know friends and family who have been depressed and taken an assortment of medications. One person, unfortuantely commited suicide after being on an SSRI for a few weeks. I also have experience in the pharmaceutical business and have studied these issues academically.

 

[learflyer]

Dude, you're missing my point.

Let me make it more clear to you.

I am NOT against someone taking medicine for depression. In fact, it may be the only way to help severely depressed individuals. That I understand. My point was that depression needs to be explored before you drop a pill which alters your chemistry. These medicines have some very profound side effects. Believe me.

Most people when they feel mildly depressed run off to their doctor and demand a particular anti-depressant. A quick fix. America is known as a pill popping nation. Pop a pill to lose weight for instance, instead of regular diet and exercise. No different here.

You would be surprised by how effective life changes and perhaps career changes are as well. Someone may merely exhibit the traits of a clinically depressed person for reasons OTHER than a chemical imbalance. A change of partner and job might just do the trick. Being more honest with yourself in life and your expectations may solve things too. The problem is that most people want a quick remedy. They don't want to work to change things in thier lives or endure lengthy therapy.

Depression is a chronic disease and takes time to heal. Depression doesn't happen over night. It's a cumulative snowball effect of many things entering the minds processing facilities. The individual does not recognize it until it reaches a certain threshold. It can be reversed, but not without a good deal of unraveling what has essentially become depression. This takes time, and most people don't care to do so. They simply do not want to put in the effort.

Understand that most people are not depressed from the womb, but acquire certain character traits and personalities that leave them more prone to depression. Life is tough and it gets us down at times. Some individuals have difficulty coping with life and create defense mechanisms around them. Most are unaware of it unless you know what to look for. These faulty mechanisims and thoughts begin to consume our thoughts and feed the depressive nature. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Depression is insidious in that it gets worse and worse if not delt with. People with depression have a fear of thier illness and become weak, further compounding their situation.

Depression has become increasingly more abundant in our society and this is due more to changes outside of our chemistry. It is based in psychology. The rapidity of the world and the expectations of a fast moving sosicety lays very unrealistic expectations on all of us. Some are unable to cope and adapt. Things need to be mentally unpacked with a mental health professional before you delve into the world of head medicines. A little introspection and corrective mind exercises will help a lot. Reading books on depression and solutions or coping mechanisms WILL help. That is very ignorant of you to claim the opposite. Reading and understanding what one is going though is priceless and many times does more to help than the psychiatrist who cares more about getting you out the door with a script in under 45 minutes. Trust me.

The point is, one should seek other avenues before deciding that they want a quick fix medicine which can do more harm in the long run to your brain. These medicines in time will permanently rearrange your brains chemistry in that the serotonin and dopamine will no longer be able to properly function without the guidenace and activity of this synthetic drug.

I never said it's something to "suck it up" or "tough it out" and it will go away. Im telling you that there are other treatments that should be explored before jumping into medicine. I also said that mental health professionals ARE needed. Yet you somehow misread what I wrote and think that I said they arent needed?

And for the record, I know friends and family who have been depressed and taken an assortment of medications. One person, unfortuantely commited suicide after being on an SSRI for a few weeks. I also have experience in the pharmaceutical business and have studied these issues academically.

I think I got ya finally! good post.:beer: