Delta TA Scope

[Regul8r]

A sh!t sandwich by any other name...

Two things I find funny are:

a) The pilots who will vote as if the TA were set in stone

and

b) The pilots who believe Management has their best interests in mind

Unfortunately, the Delta pilots have two groups working against them - ALPA and Delta Management

Don't forget to pay your Union Dues!

 

[737 Pylt]

Oh great, another elitist snob banging his 4 yr degree drum again. You Sir can take your attitude and "ram it"!



Sitting here with my H.S. diploma and twice the maturity.......

Great....Another wanna be drop out with a chip on his shoulder, blaming the world for his woes, who thinks he know's it all from being an rj captain!
Take your lawsuit and jam it!
737

 

[AdamKooper]

Oh great, another elitist snob banging his 4 yr degree drum again. You Sir can take your attitude and "ram it"!



Sitting here with my H.S. diploma and twice the maturity.......

Sorry I tend to agree that people with a 4 year Degree show more professionalism than those without one. Mainline carriers usually require one or some Military exp. I would love to see this at the regional level. Maybe after we require more education we can get rid of the cockpit "Farters", backpack wearing, walmart pants wearing, unpressed shirt sporting, overweight, clip-on tie morons that seem to be a dime a dozen at regionals. I wouldn't hire anyone without 4 years in a uni or military.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

QUESTIONS:

• What happens to Dan Ford and his lawsuit when Delta sells CMR and the pilots are merged into another group?

• Why haven’t the CMR pilots figured out by now that JC Lawson has done nothing for them but play political games with their careers? Isn’t time for new leadership?

On a side note, I totally agree with the education requirements. Having a BA/BS has always been an excellent discriminator in any field of work. You have one position to fill and have two completely qualified and solid applicants, one with a degree; one without. Who would you hire?

 

[surplus1]

QUESTIONS:

• What happens to Dan Ford and his lawsuit when Delta sells CMR and the pilots are merged into another group?

The litigation is against ALPA. Therefore it will continue regardless of whether Delta sells CMR or not.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

QUESTIONS:

• What happens to Dan Ford and his lawsuit when Delta sells CMR and the pilots are merged into another group?

• Why haven’t the CMR pilots figured out by now that JC Lawson has done nothing for them but play political games with their careers? Isn’t time for new leadership?

On a side note, I totally agree with the education requirements. Having a BA/BS has always been an excellent discriminator in any field of work. You have one position to fill and have two completely qualified and solid applicants, one with a degree; one without. Who would you hire?

If you're J.O., anyone who's willing to help lower the bar.

 

[~~~^~~~]

That is total BS. I was told by Bob Arnold himself (I met him at Malone's during one of my training events and he must have been there too for the same reason) that he WOULD be an MD11 FO and fly Europe. He is now your MEC chairman. Go ask him. I also flew on a jumpseat with one of your super senior pilots, I believe he was one of your chief pilots--real deep voice, glasses, white hair. Anyway, he told me going to DTW (to see a friend) in the jumpseat that he EXPECTED to finish his career in the left seat of the 738, flying to Central America for DL. How could I make this crap up?

Bye Bye--General Lee

General - Bob was the source of my line about ALPA history being "merge by paycheck, or equipment," meaning a staple. So I know Bob's position at that time. Maybe he was yanking your chain.

I think the other guy you are quoting from is Doug Helms and you are probably correct. He told me the same thing while another chief pilot seated out of his view gave me the Bob Uuker (visual sign for masturbation). Everyone has opinions and Doug has his.

However, neither opinion matters. ALPA ha(d) a merger and fragmentation policy and ALPA policy would have been followed resulting in a windfall for nobody.

As you know, your MEC killed onelist on the theory that the career path would not longer be preserved for military pilots and that ASA/Comair guys were unqualified, uneducated, drunks.

The junior Delta guys would have benefitted greatly, but that is hindsight now.

As far as qualifications go - I wish airlines required Master's Degrees.
~~~^~~~

 

[~~~^~~~]

Before you and your rjdc gals start your "high fiving" and butt slaping, consider this. We don't even know it this will be approved by the membership. .....
BTW I'm still waiting for your response about using the ALPA forum for rjdc efforts?
Secondly, we know why your lawsuit started.. The rjdc is filled with the "undesireables" of aviation. No college degree, some dui's. SO get your facts straight! Your idea of one list was "DOH" and didn't fly, so ram it!
737

737
(1) You are correct. The Northwest MEC is currently recalling its Chairman and is in "meltdown" mode over their "agreement." However, DCI is below the previous scope limits and I don't really care if an airplane has 70, or 76, seats in it. This new TA really does not change much. If it gets voted down - big deal.
My only concern about a vote down is that it might mean the end of Delta in short order. Fred Buttrell is writing that Comair is on a daily death watch over the preservation of the Flight Attendant's contract, which was small change in the overall scheme of things. I can not believe Delta management is going to toss their investment in Comair, but they have done stranger things. Who knows what the Creditor Committees and Consultants are telling them to do.
(2) The RJDC is hoping to reform ALPA so that it better represents its membership. Arguing union business is a proper use of the message boards, although I have not signed on in four or five years now.
(3) Dan Ford was a pretty big deal in ALPA Safety, did a lot of valuable work on the E120 losses at Comair and here at ASA. He has the qualifications to get hired anywhere.

I was one of the guys who initially pushed for a lawsuit when ALPA refused to hear grievances over their own conduct. I have a Master's degree and no DUI's. I know most of the RJDC leadership team and don't know of anyone who fits the description you have made up. Just curious, where do you get this stuff? He is a Plaintiff, so if you are connected with ALPA you could always find out anything you actually wanted to know, factually, by making an enquiry through the discovery process. If he had something in the closet, ALPA would use it....

As far as DOH, you and I both know that yours and my opinions do not matter. We also both know ALPA history is paycheck, or equipment. Either way you cut it the result would have been a staple. I don't know why folks like you continue to see DOH as even a point worth making. The issue was that the Delta MEC wanted to preserve career entry performing desireable flying for their former military squadron mates. Back then it was inconcievable that any Delta pilot would want to lower himself to flying an RJ. How times have changed.

But scope can not be left up to your arbitrary whim. Once other ALPA members have those jobs, the union also has an obligation to those members. Everyone has to participate in the process for the process to be legitimate.

~~~^~~~

~~~^~~~

 

[737 Pylt]

737
(1) You are correct. The Northwest MEC is currently recalling its Chairman and is in "meltdown" mode over their "agreement." However, DCI is below the previous scope limits and I don't really care if an airplane has 70, or 76, seats in it. This new TA really does not change much. If it gets voted down - big deal.

The last I read, they decided not to recall the MEC.

My only concern about a vote down is that it might mean the end of Delta in short order. Fred Buttrell is writing that Comair is on a daily death watch over the preservation of the Flight Attendant's contract, which was small change in the overall scheme of things. I can not believe Delta management is going to toss their investment in Comair, but they have done stranger things. Who knows what the Creditor Committees and Consultants are telling them to do.

DL management has shown again, and again, and again, and again, that they have NO CLUE what they are doing!

(2) The RJDC is hoping to reform ALPA so that it better represents its membership. Arguing union business is a proper use of the message boards, although I have not signed on in four or five years now.

Arguing union business is NOT what your pals are doing. They are soliciting, and advertising their lawsuit against my union using my (union dues paying) web forum for their purpose, but that was another nice attempt at a spin.
By reform, you mean this:

h. as to the claims set forth in Count VIII, such sum as may be determined
at trial, but in no event less than the sum of Two Million Dollars
($2,000,000.00) each.

i. as to the claims set forth in Count IX,
such sum as may be determined at trial, but in no event less than Two
Million ($2,000,000.00) Dollars each.

j. as to the claims set forth in Count X,
such sum as may be determined at trial, but in no event less than Two
Million Dollars ($2,000,000.00) Dollars each, plus the cumulative sum of One
Hundred Million ($100,000,000.00) as exemplary and punitive damages.

k. as to the claims set forth in Count XI, such sum as may be determined at
trial, but in no event less than Two Million ($2,000,000.00) each.

l. as to the claims set forth in Count XII, such sum as may be determined at
trial, but in no event less than Two Million ($2,000,000.00) Dollars each.

m. as to the claims set forth in Count XIII,
such sum as may be determined at trial, but in no event less than Two
Million ($2,000,000.00) Dollars each.

(3) Dan Ford was a pretty big deal in ALPA Safety, did a lot of valuable work on the E120 losses at Comair and here at ASA. He has the qualifications to get hired anywhere.

He still is a pretty big deal. One of the most hated guys in the industry. I put him right up there with the EAL scabs. Of course they at least waited until the rEAL pilots walked off the job!

I was one of the guys who initially pushed for a lawsuit when ALPA refused to hear grievances over their own conduct. I have a Master's degree and no DUI's. I know most of the RJDC leadership team and don't know of anyone who fits the description you have made up. Just curious, where do you get this stuff? He is a Plaintiff, so if you are connected with ALPA you could always find out anything you actually wanted to know, factually, by making an enquiry through the discovery process. If he had something in the closet, ALPA would use it....

I get this stuff the same place you do, right out of the rjdc "fact book." You know and I that the lawsuit is nothing more than extortion from a few greedy undesirables in the industry!

As far as DOH, you and I both know that yours and my opinions do not matter. We also both know ALPA history is paycheck, or equipment. Either way you cut it the result would have been a staple. I don't know why folks like you continue to see DOH as even a point worth making. The issue was that the Delta MEC wanted to preserve career entry performing desireable flying for their former military squadron mates. Back then it was inconcievable that any Delta pilot would want to lower himself to flying an RJ. How times have changed.

And you talk about my "facts." Why don't you post that statement from the DMEC....You seem to have all the facts, copy and paste when it suits you, let's hear it??

But scope can not be left up to your arbitrary whim. Once other ALPA members have those jobs, the union also has an obligation to those members. Everyone has to participate in the process for the process to be legitimate.

~~~^~~~

One thing you fail to realize is that EVERY bit of flying under the DL code is subject to the DL pilots' PWA. You don't have to agree with it, that's why you are trying to bankrupt my union, but you have to abide by it!

737

 

[sleeves]

According to ALPA bylaws, you must resign your seniority number if you get hired by another carrier. ASA agreed to waive that issue for furloughees.

Can you provide a reference as to where in the bylaws it states this? I can not find this in the ALPA bylaws anywhere.

 

[~~~^~~~]

One thing you fail to realize is that EVERY bit of flying under the DL code is subject to the DL pilots' PWA. You don't have to agree with it, that's why you are trying to bankrupt my union, but you have to abide by it!

737

I only fail to agree.

When you negotiate your code away - when you sell your code for other contract priorities - it is then no longer yours. You no longer own something you sold. Current pilots, ALPA Members in Good Standing, perform that flying now and they have the right to union representation. ALPA has denied them that representation.

Probably the most important area where ALPA has deliberately failed to represent their membership (in total) is scope. As you know we are all in a free fall race for the bottom because none of us has effective scope. ALPA intended this to happen because they believe like you do that no one has any rights to scope that you have sold, or negotiated away. In my opinion ALPA has made a serious mistake and destroyed our profession in their quest to support only the few, preferred members, like yourself. In my opinion ALPA has a duty of representation to all of its members.

I believe the University of Ohio performed the economic impact study and their results were the changes from CY96 scope to CY2000 scope were in excess of $2,000,000.00 per pilot. ALPA, who has an Economic Analysis Department tasked with studying just this sort of issue says they never looked at the impact of scope on regional airline pilots.

If ALPA's deliberate malfeasance caused harm they should be held responsible to their members for the harm that they caused.

We keep hoping ALPA will change. I like flying airplanes and being a professional pilot should be a career worthy of the achievement. Our union has to change to restore our profession.

And, as you probably know, I am not an RJDC plaintiff. But I support the effort to restore our profession. Pilot pay should not be the variable determining which airlines succeed and which airlines fail. ALPA should have worked to improve all of our standards, not just the standards at UAL, DAL and NWA. Because we failed to stand together, we are now falling together.

Why are you so against any effort to fix our union? Can you not see where this is going?

~~~^~~~

 

[737 Pylt]

I only fail to agree.

Big surprise!

When you negotiate your code away - when you sell your code for other contract priorities - it is then no longer yours. You no longer own something you sold. Current pilots, ALPA Members in Good Standing, perform that flying now and they have the right to union representation. ALPA has denied them that representation.

You're right. You don't own it either! These are NEW airplanes, that are subject to the DL pilots' PWA, why is that so difficult for you to understand. What's past is past, but the line in the sand has been drawn, and you and your greedy lying rjdc pals, are not going to take any more flying from us!

Probably the most important area where ALPA has deliberately failed to represent their membership (in total) is scope. As you know we are all in a free fall race for the bottom because none of us has effective scope. ALPA intended this to happen because they believe like you do that no one has any rights to scope that you have sold, or negotiated away. In my opinion ALPA has made a serious mistake and destroyed our profession in their quest to support only the few, preferred members, like yourself. In my opinion ALPA has a duty of representation to all of its members.

ALPA is what you make of it. It is a collective unit of different MEC's bargaining for what's in their best interest. These collective MEC's not only are looking out for their own, but are in deep competition with each other, I have said that before, and it couldn't be more plainer. What have you done for ALPA besides file a frivilous lawsuit and blame all your problems on the DMEC? How many LEC meetings have you been to? My guess, none, because its a lot easier for guys like you to point the finger at everyone else!

I believe the University of Ohio performed the economic impact study and their results were the changes from CY96 scope to CY2000 scope were in excess of $2,000,000.00 per pilot. ALPA, who has an Economic Analysis Department tasked with studying just this sort of issue says they never looked at the impact of scope on regional airline pilots.

That's bull and you know it. You really pulled that one out of your a$$! You tell me anyone at ANY regional in the history of aviation that has made that kind of money. I remember reading an article back in college in the 1980's that said the AVERAGE person in his entire lifetime will earn in the average $1,000,000.00. Your greed or your lawyer came up with this sum!

If ALPA's deliberate malfeasance caused harm they should be held responsible to their members for the harm that they caused.

Maybe we (DL MEC) should file a lawsuit against the ASA/CMR mec for financial damages done to us and our furloughees by all the flying that was outsourced to you!

We keep hoping ALPA will change. I like flying airplanes and being a professional pilot should be a career worthy of the achievement. Our union has to change to restore our profession.

Naaaah, you are in it for the promise of all those $$millions and the promise of being 777 captains!

And, as you probably know, I am not an RJDC plaintiff. But I support the effort to restore our profession. Pilot pay should not be the variable determining which airlines succeed and which airlines fail. ALPA should have worked to improve all of our standards, not just the standards at UAL, DAL and NWA. Because we failed to stand together, we are now falling together.

Why are you so against any effort to fix our union? Can you not see where this is going?

~~~^~~~

I guess they failed at CMR with a 90 day strike and the highest pay in regional history?? You need to come up with a better story.
737

 

[surplus1]

He still is a pretty big deal. One of the most hated guys in the industry. I put him right up there with the EAL scabs. Of course they at least waited until the rEAL pilots walked off the job!

You know what, you could save yourself a whole lot of ranting and raving, grief and frustration, if you would just come to realize a few simple things.

1) Those of us who support the litigation against ALPA, and that includes me, couldn't care less what you think about it or how much you hate the principal or the rest of us. We, love him and we think he's done a great job. How much you dislike him or those of us that support his efforts is of no consequence; zero. Disparaging remarks from the peanut gallery serve only to demonstrate your lack of maturity.

2) The litigation is going to continue until it is finally resolved in a court of law. If ALPA loses the first round and appeals, we will fight the appeal for as long as it takes until a final determination is made. If we lose the first round then we will appeal and ALPA will have to defend. That will happen no matter how much hate or vitriol you and your kind choose to spew.

3) You and yours are powerless to stop it. I know it frustrates you to be told that you are not in control. Face reality, your opinion simply does not matter one iota; you do not control what happens. But that in your pipe and smoke it.

You know and I that the lawsuit is nothing more than extortion from a few greedy undesirables in the industry!

No, I don't know that. I do know that the undesirable greedy predators are in your camps and you are frustrated because some of us have the guts to stand up to you and are not afraid of your rhetoric or your threats. Coercion on the part of the ALPA, the Delta MEC or the likes of you is just not something that we fear. You have been successful in intimidating some folks. You cannot succeed in intimidating us. You'll just have to get used to the fact that you are not "holier" than anyone. You're just a bunch of children rolling and kicking on the floor because you can't get your way.

Figure it out dude; you will get your way if and when you win in court. Before that, grin and bear it. You can stomp your feet and cry and whine as much and as long as you please. The litigation is going all they way to a final solution, whether you like it or not.

One thing you fail to realize is that EVERY bit of flying under the DL code is subject to the DL pilots' PWA. You don't have to agree with it, that's why you are trying to bankrupt my union, but you have to abide by it!
737

The ONLY thing we have to abide by is the law and the final decision of the courts. When the court decides finally, you and I both will have to abide by that decision. It does not matter whether we agree with it not. That is what YOU fail to realize. Your "PWA" is no longer relevant to this case other than because the ALPA keeps digging itself a deeper hole.

The flying under the DL "code" is determined by the mangement of Delta Air Lines; not by you, not by your MEC and not by the ALPA. You've been trying to coerce the Company into doing your bidding for a long time. Your efforts so far have been a failure and will continue to be. Delta management will put its "code" where it wants to, just as it has been doing. You may want to control it, you may think you control it; the fact is you do not.

Your greed and your ego caused you to open Pandora's box. The genie is out of the bottle and you will never put it back. Learn to live with that reality.

Go ahead and pout some more; I love it when you're foaming at the mouth. If you don't like your TA, go ahead and vote it down. Otherwise live with it and quit whining.

Get it through your head: this litigation is a DFR action against the ALPA. It will survive both you and Delta and Comair, until it is resolved in a court of proper jurisdiction. Your likes and dislikes, whether personal or collective are just not a factor in the outcome. Your opinion does not matter. Capiche?

Save the time and effort and avoid bursting a blood vessel ranting over it. It is not within your control and it isn't going to be.

 

[737 Pylt]

You know what, you could save yourself a whole lot of ranting and raving, grief and frustration, if you would just come to realize a few simple things.

1) Those of us who support the litigation against ALPA, and that includes me, couldn't care less what you think about it or how much you hate the principal or the rest of us. We, love him and we think he's done a great job. How much you dislike him or those of us that support his efforts is of no consequence; zero. Disparaging remarks from the peanut gallery serve only to demonstrate your lack of maturity.

I could give a rats hiney about you or the rest of your girl group old man! The only thing I care about is how your group is trying to extort my group! Its just that simple. Even someone with limited intelligence such as yourself should be able to handle that!

2) The litigation is going to continue until it is finally resolved in a court of law. If ALPA loses the first round and appeals, we will fight the appeal for as long as it takes until a final determination is made. If we lose the first round then we will appeal and ALPA will have to defend. That will happen no matter how much hate or vitriol you and your kind choose to spew.

Well, since 9 out of 10 claims were thrown out, we can only wait until the last piece is as well! You of all (and I use the term loosely) people, have a lot of guts talking about vitrol.

3) You and yours are powerless to stop it. I know it frustrates you to be told that you are not in control. Face reality, your opinion simply does not matter one iota; you do not control what happens. But that in your pipe and smoke it.

Neither do you old man....Isn't it about time to tell one of your younger knee pad pals how great cmr once was until the greedy DL pilot group destroyed it! You truly are one bitter old man!

No, I don't know that. I do know that the undesirable greedy predators are in your camps and you are frustrated because some of us have the guts to stand up to you and are not afraid of your rhetoric or your threats. Coercion on the part of the ALPA, the Delta MEC or the likes of you is just not something that we fear. You have been successful in intimidating some folks. You cannot succeed in intimidating us. You'll just have to get used to the fact that you are not "holier" than anyone. You're just a bunch of children rolling and kicking on the floor because you can't get your way.

The only thing that frustrates me old man, is morons like you that just can't get it through their thick skull.....ALL DL FLYING IS SUBJECT TO THE DL PILOTS' PWA. Get it through your OLD skull idiot! It seems like YOU are the child. For an old man you cry and blame all your pilot group falters on everyone else. Put that in your crack pipe and BLOW!

Figure it out dude; you will get your way if and when you win in court. Before that, grin and bear it. You can stomp your feet and cry and whine as much and as long as you please. The litigation is going all they way to a final solution, whether you like it or not.

Bear this pops! You're the crybaby. You and you pals were hi-fiving everyone about being $millionairs and 777 captains, when that didn't happen, you were pissed off! Guess what, your problems are just that yours, I could care less what happens to you and your girl group over there, and when the last claim is thrown out of court, I pray you are thrown out of ALPA!

The ONLY thing we have to abide by is the law and the final decision of the courts.

When the court decides finally, you and I both will have to abide by that decision. It does not matter whether we agree with it not. That is what YOU fail to realize. Your "PWA" is no longer relevant to this case other than because the ALPA keeps digging itself a deeper hole.

Dig this dude....Your bitterness is laughable. I see a bitter old man, stuck at a regional, telling all his new hires how great he once was, stuck in a job he hates, and blaming the rest of the world for his problems. If you weren't so pathetic, it would be amusing! If Our PWA is no longer relevant, then why is it that you care so much about it. Is senitlity settling in??

The flying under the DL "code" is determined by the mangement of Delta Air Lines

; not by you, not by your MEC and not by the ALPA. You've been trying to coerce the Company into doing your bidding for a long time. Your efforts so far have been a failure and will continue to be. Delta management will put its "code" where it wants to, just as it has been doing. You may want to control it, you may think you control it; the fact is you do not.

Wrong again pops! ALL DL flying is subject to the DL PWA....Much as you cry about it and hate it, you have to eat it. its so amusing watching you get angry over not having it your way.

Your greed and your ego caused you to open Pandora's box. The genie is out of the bottle and you will never put it back. Learn to live with that reality.

I'm not the one involved in a multi million dollar lawsuit gramps! Live with that reality!

Go ahead and pout some more; I love it when you're foaming at the mouth. If you don't like your TA, go ahead and vote it down. Otherwise live with it and quit whining.

Funny coming from a bitter old man who blames all his problems on eveyone but his own pilot group. Didn't your group just get slammed for accepting concessions for growth, and you yourself sat here defending that action. You are clueless as you are pathetic!

Get it through your head: this litigation is a DFR action against the ALPA. It will survive both you and Delta and Comair, until it is resolved in a court of proper jurisdiction. Your likes and dislikes, whether personal or collective are just not a factor in the outcome. Your opinion does not matter. Capiche?

Neither does your gramps! Get that through your hairpiece! When this suit is thrown out, I'll petition that you and your "scab like" group are GONE from ALPA!

Save the time and effort and avoid bursting a blood vessel ranting over it. It is not within your control and it isn't going to be.

I wouldn't go spending all those $$millions yet there pops!
737

 

[Catbird]

Well said Surplus. Please keep up the good work, someday the the courts will rule and ALPA will become a Association of ALL pilot members once again instead of the choosen few.

 

[D'Angelo]

Though I dont really care for the RJDC I do hope they win the lawsuit for one simple reason. To put the financial hurt on ALPO!! Thats what we need to start focusing on is putting the hurt on them. It would be a great show of "unity" to have a no dues month. Every employee not happy with the way ALPO is going start withholding their dues. No way they are going to fire everyone for that and it will most certainly hit em where it hurts.

 

[Catbird]

Easy does it 737. You can rant and rave till your Hypoxic but the courts are cleaning up your stinking mess. Keep up the temper and you will dig yourself a early grave. Even better yet donate a little to the RJDC to calm those Demons. Every little bit helps. Look how far its come so far.

 

[surplus1]

I could give a rats hiney
737

Simmer down young skywalker, that high blood pressure is gonna bust a blood vessel and cause you to flunk your medical. Now be a good boy, put your laser sword away and go take a nap. I'll get mommy to warm some pablum for ya later. Yes, you can take your RJ models to bed with you.

 

[D'Angelo]

It is true 737 man is probably going to have a coronary one of these days. What good does it do to scream full pay til the last day if you drop dead far too soon? It sure doesnt help your family out. You can believe dat!

 

[~~~^~~~]

You're right. You don't own it either! These are NEW airplanes, that are subject to the DL pilots' PWA, why is that so difficult for you to understand. What's past is past, but the line in the sand has been drawn, and you and your greedy lying rjdc pals, are not going to take any more flying from us!

We have not taken anything from you. We are not even allowed to participate in the representative process. ALPA locked us out, we did not get to negotiate, endorse, ratify, or vote on a single hour of flying. So how could we "take" anything - we are C2 Quadraplegics - we are paralyzed.

If you mean that you sold flying and now we have been hired to perform what you sold - then say that.

ALPA coined the phrase "bargaining credits" for the flying they allowed to be outsourced, so it is pretty hard for you to sit here and say that something wasn't sold when your representatives even went as far as to put a dollar value on it.

But after your MEC sold scope in 1996, you can't now come along and simply take it back. The ALPA members who perform flying should have a right to negotiate the pay and working conditions for that code. ALPA's refusal to allow their non preferred members to negotiate contracts which would scope their flying has resulted in whipsaw - the race for the bottom.

As you can see with your own small jet pay rates - ALPA's failure is harming all of us. Your MEC negotiated rates lower than ASA's on equipment currently operated by ASA pilots. Max rates on the CRJ900 of $95.70, while ASA tops out at over $103 an hour. And you accuse us of "stealing" and lowering the profession. Shame on you.

When are you just going to give up on bigotry?

 

[Jack-O-Lantern]

Wow! 737pylt, you have reeeeaaaly made yourself out to be a blow it out your a#@ self serving idiot!

 

[737 Pylt]

Wow! 737pylt, you have reeeeaaaly made yourself out to be a blow it out your a#@ self serving idiot!

Actually, that's not true. I don't hate any 1 pilot group, just individuals. (Unless you consider the rjdc a pilot group), and don't wish anything bad on any pilot group. But the rjdc, including ~~~^~~~, and surplus1, are nothing but self serving greedy undesirables in aviation. They had their chance to go to a major many years ago, but were too lazy to move up. Then along comes the rjdc and promises them all they'll be $$millionaires and 777 captains. I only hope that alpa counter suits them for damages and throws them out of the union.
737

 

[D'Angelo]

Actually, that's not true. I don't hate any 1 pilot group, just individuals. (Unless you consider the rjdc a pilot group), and don't wish anything bad on any pilot group. But the rjdc, including ~~~^~~~, and surplus1, are nothing but self serving greedy undesirables in aviation. They had their chance to go to a major many years ago, but were too lazy to move up. Then along comes the rjdc and promises them all they'll be $$millionaires and 777 captains. I only hope that alpa counter suits them for damages and throws them out of the union.
737

Hey ALPO is the one that started this every man for himself game. Start today on withholding dues. Its quite a brilliant move really

 

[~~~^~~~]

But the rjdc, including ~~~^~~~, and surplus1, are nothing but self serving greedy undesirables in aviation. They had their chance to go to a major many years ago, but were too lazy to move up. Then along comes the rjdc and promises them all they'll be $$millionaires and 777 captains.
737

737 - You are so full of garbage - I'm not a Plaintiff, so I would not be in line to get anything. My only hope is that ALPA can be saved from those who hijacked the union.

As far as "undesireable," somebody wants me. I've been hired at every job I've ever applied to. I have no desire to fly 777's or fly any Delta equipment. If I fly a 737 at some point, it would be my preference to work for AirTran, Southwest, or Fed Ex.

Actually, that's not true. I don't hate any 1 pilot group, just individuals.
737

And I don't hate any individuals, but as a group, yeah, I have to admit the folks who run our union anger me with the way they have wrecked the profession. The Delta MEC has pretty much pi$$ed off the entire flying public to the point that passengers give me an earful. I go through great pains to try to tell folks we are not Delta, but not all of them pick up on the fact, or listen to announcements. Being a pilot should be a source of pride, the Delta pilots have made it a source of embarrassment and derision.

Not to change subject, but why all the picketing, the strike threats, the press releases and the threats to shut the airline down if you guys were just going to TA the Company's offer with some very minor revisions? I mean, why raise holy he11 when the change is 78 to 76 seats while relaxing the block hour limit? That was stupid. The perception is that Delta pilots are arrogant, foolish, union hacks. AirTran has shifted their marketing focus on their "friendly" employees to try to highlight the difference.

Again, every individual Delta pilot I've met, or had the pleasure to fly with as a passenger has been a good stick and very friendly to the passengers - but - as a group led by your MEC, the Delta pilots have been (mis)represented as arrogant a-holes.

 

[737 Pylt]

You'd make a good politician!

737 - You are so full of garbage - I'm not a Plaintiff, so I would not be in line to get anything. My only hope is that ALPA can be saved from those who hijacked the union.

I'm glad you checked with your leadership to answer that question.. Your rjdc leadership speaks for you!

As far as "undesireable," somebody wants me. I've been hired at every job I've ever applied to. I have no desire to fly 777's or fly any Delta equipment. If I fly a 737 at some point, it would be my preference to work for AirTran, Southwest, or Fed Ex.

Then stop trying to sue to steal my flying.....But then again, maybe if Air Tran doesn't hire you, you could sue them!

And I don't hate any individuals, but as a group, yeah, I have to admit the folks who run our union anger me with the way they have wrecked the profession. The Delta MEC has pretty much pi$$ed off the entire flying public to the point that passengers give me an earful. I go through great pains to try to tell folks we are not Delta, but not all of them pick up on the fact, or listen to announcements. Being a pilot should be a source of pride, the Delta pilots have made it a source of embarrassment and derision.

That's pretty ironic coming from an asa pilot. How many lost bags did you guys have last year. How many left behind pax due to "being overweight." How's that on time performance doing. All I hear from people is...I'm booking away from DL any more because they put these puddle jumpers on 3 hour flights. Thanks for playing though!

Not to change subject, but why all the picketing, the strike threats, the press releases and the threats to shut the airline down if you guys were just going to TA the Company's offer with some very minor revisions? I mean, why raise holy he11 when the change is 78 to 76 seats while relaxing the block hour limit? That was stupid. The perception is that Delta pilots are arrogant, foolish, union hacks. AirTran has shifted their marketing focus on their "friendly" employees to try to highlight the difference.

That's the difference from working for a "employee friendly" airline like Air Tran. I envy those guys, getting new planes, no lousy rj's to contend with stealing their jobs, they got it made.

gain, every individual Delta pilot I've met, or had the pleasure to fly with as a passenger has been a good stick and very friendly to the passengers - but - as a group led by your MEC, the Delta pilots have been (mis)represented as arrogant a-holes.

I can say the same about your group too!
737

 

[surplus1]

Hey, I thought I told you to go take a nap, boy. Now shush! Your like a scratched CD --- nothing but noise.

 

[N2264J]

But the rjdc, including ~~~^~~~, and surplus1, are nothing but self serving greedy undesirables in aviation. They had their chance to go to a major many years ago, but were too lazy to move up...I pray you are thrown out of ALPA!

Good grief. No kidding, you can get help for the bi-polar Coprolalia here:

http://members.tripod.com/~tourette13/

You guys have been threatening Article XIII charges against the plaintiffs for 5 years now. Why don't you start the plaintiff expulsion process at your next LEC meeting? It might make you feel better.

Have you ever drafted a resolution before?

 

[DrunkIrishman]

737 pilot-

I hope you are arguing with Fins specifically, versus the DCI pilots, when you talk about lousy rj's stealing your job. After all, you say that the DAL PWA controls the scope and code. So your own union is the one stealing anything.

Also, not that I'm a fan of the rjdc, but I do want to point out to you that the goal of that lawsuit is to achieve equal representation. It has nothing to do with stealing your job. You posted earlier specific quotes of dollar values in the lawsuit. When, in all those quotes, did it say that Ford must be strongfisted into the DAL mainline seniority list?

 

[atrdriver]

That's pretty ironic coming from an asa pilot. How many lost bags did you guys have last year. How many left behind pax due to "being overweight." How's that on time performance doing. All I hear from people is...I'm booking away from DL any more because they put these puddle jumpers on 3 hour flights. Thanks for playing though!

Look 737, I'm violently anti RJDC, but as bad as ASA is, instead of asking me how many bags we lost last year, why don't you ask me how many times a DAY a DAL bag cart pulls up as we are pushing back wanting to throw bags on the A/C. We don't run the bag operation, DAL does. Yeah ASA sucks in many ways, and the RJDC sucks in ALL ways, but the bag problem comes from your side of the tracks.

 

[atrdriver]

that the goal of that lawsuit is to achieve equal representation. It has nothing to do with stealing your job.

Actually, the goal of the lawsuit is the elimination of all scope, even though it is not presented in those words. The relief section states that no pilot group will be able to "control" what another pilot group can fly, which is what scope is. And if scope is made illegal, then it is essentially stealing every mainline job in the industry, because mgnt will try to outsource everything to save money.