Delta shocks wall street...

[800Dog]

So if all your buddies jumped over a cliff, you would too?

What? Two years of community college I presume.

 

[General Lee]

So if all your buddies jumped over a cliff, you would too?

Great argument.......We didn't WANT to go BK, but the process is there, and some have used it TWICE. I wouldn't want anyone to go through this process, but the American Way allows people to falter, and then pick themselves back up. If you want cut throat, move to Africa.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[johnsonrod]

So, without bankruptcy protection would people be in favor of 80,000 people losing their jobs? Is that preferrable?

Delta will emerge stronger from this process and 80,000 or so people will have their jobs (and local governments will have their tax revenues). If you want to blame people and hold people accountable, you should target Leo and his former management cronies - they should be held accountable for their incredibly illogical management decisions... How many billions of dollars did Leo waste on a stock buyback right before/after 9/11? $2-3 billion in cash? Who screwed up the fuel hedging situation? Are these people being sued for their stupidity???? What about their highly-paid McKinsey consultants and accounting firms? Who has sued them for malpractice???? Don't blame the pilots for these problems...

 

[ironspud]

You and Parker are the only ones who think USAir is the way to go. According to Oberstar, the Chairman of the Transportation committee, he doesn't know anyone in Congress who is in favor of this takeover. And, he said he would lean on the DOJ if needed. Regardless, the creditor committee will eventually vote in our favor. Sorry. About the loss, yeah it happened, and it was better than last year's. It says it all in the news story.

Bye Bye--General Lee

The "Oberstar arguement" is so old it smells. Find a new one.

 

[Remington]

So, without bankruptcy protection would people be in favor of 80,000 people losing their jobs? Is that preferrable?

Delta will emerge stronger from this process and 80,000 or so people will have their jobs (and local governments will have their tax revenues). If you want to blame people and hold people accountable, you should target Leo and his former management cronies - they should be held accountable for their incredibly illogical management decisions... How many billions of dollars did Leo waste on a stock buyback right before/after 9/11? $2-3 billion in cash? Who screwed up the fuel hedging situation? Are these people being sued for their stupidity???? What about their highly-paid McKinsey consultants and accounting firms? Who has sued them for malpractice???? Don't blame the pilots for these problems...

I never said the pilots are to blame. I think at an entirely overpriced pilot group contributed to more problems post 911. So an employer with 80000 employees should have pitty taken on them? I am sure most would get a new job. They would not be jobless forever. Unemployment runs out after 6 months. Minimal tax burden for us hardworking Americans. When folks get hired at DAL do they sign a contract which guarantees them employment for the rest of their lives? Didn't think so.
What happend to the vendors who yall screwed? Did they go out of business? Did those families declare bankruptcy. Or are their business too small to worry about. Should SWA and AA get a 2 Mississippi head-start on any decision making in the industry since they struggled thru their hardships and came out the back end. Just looking for apples and apples here. Delta, and all airlines, should not be immune to economic ups and downs. Someday all the airlines that are in business today will be history. When, is the only answer that nobody knows. I am not wishing ill-will on anyone, but I believe that the arrogance of the DAL, AAA, and UAL pilot group contributed to what happend after 911. We are all bluecollar workers who happen to move airplanes. It's not rocket surgery. We are all replaceable. There are tons of 25yr/old regional pilots with more hightech aviation experience than most of us and are just as capable as moving a 777 across the pond as a 59 year old.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

BBB:
Hypothetical question for you......
Say you are trying to refinance your mortgage rate on your house, your current rate is 9.5%. You get a better deal from a different bank at say 5%, would you refinance it? Of course you would, thus saving yourself hundreds of thousands of dollars over the life of the (30 yr) loan. Are you cheating your current lender out of his money?
DL has billions of dollars in debt. All accured by past inept management (Leo Mullin), and has shed some of its double digit interest rates down to very fair interest rates, and thus, as you put it, walking away from alot of their debt. Is it fair? Probably not, is it right, probably not!
US Air did it, UAL did it 2 x's, so did AWA 2 x's, and CAL!
What about the airlines that took the ATSB loan from the gov't?
You make some valid points, I'm just playing devils advocate!

Forgive me... but I totally miss your point. If you are asking is it ethical to refinance debt to a lower interest rate... of course it is (as long as neither party is FORCED to participate.) I fail to see how that is germane to anything I've discussed, however. Refinancing debt to a lower cost of BORROWING is not the same as having that debt dismissed via bankruptcy (or are you saying it is and that is your point? )

I admit I am not exceedingly well informed about the details of DAL's filing, but it is my understanding these "negotiations" to lower borrowing costs have been basically FORCED upon the lenders. Prior to BK it is my understanding the lenders did not voluntarily agree to lower these costs. Given the bankruptcy filing and the specter of complete DEFAULT on the loans I believe the lenders were under tremendous pressure to protect whatever remained of their investment (stockholder's money). This is a much different scenario than you initially innocently portrayed.

If I am mistaken about any of this, sorry. As I mentioned, I have not followed Delta's filing that closely... but this is generally how these "negotiations" to lower costs work in bankruptcy. Again, this is not meant as a slight to any airline personnel. Rather, it is more of a general sentiment about the whole broken bankruptcy process which essentially rewards corporations for failing to pay their accrued debt. In Delta's case it is a WHOPPING $22 BILLION!

BBB

 

[800Dog]

I never said the pilots are to blame. I think at an entirely overpriced pilot group contributed to more problems post 911. So an employer with 80000 employees should have pitty taken on them? I am sure most would get a new job. They would not be jobless forever. Unemployment runs out after 6 months. Minimal tax burden for us hardworking Americans. When folks get hired at DAL do they sign a contract which guarantees them employment for the rest of their lives? Didn't think so.
What happend to the vendors who yall screwed? Did they go out of business? Did those families declare bankruptcy. Or are their business too small to worry about. Should SWA and AA get a 2 Mississippi head-start on any decision making in the industry since they struggled thru their hardships and came out the back end. Just looking for apples and apples here. Delta, and all airlines, should not be immune to economic ups and downs. Someday all the airlines that are in business today will be history. When, is the only answer that nobody knows. I am not wishing ill-will on anyone, but I believe that the arrogance of the DAL, AAA, and UAL pilot group contributed to what happend after 911. We are all bluecollar workers who happen to move airplanes. It's not rocket surgery. We are all replaceable. There are tons of 25yr/old regional pilots with more hightech aviation experience than most of us and are just as capable as moving a 777 across the pond as a 59 year old.

Another two year community college genius!

 

[Remington]

Huh? What's community college have to do with it? What level of edumacation does it take to post here? 2yr, 4yr, grad degree? Einstein dropped out of High School and I believe Bill Gates quit college. How have the ultra-educated CEO's of DAL ran your airline?

 

[800Dog]

Huh? What's community college have to do with it? What level of edumacation does it take to post here? 2yr, 4yr, grad degree? Einstein dropped out of High School and I believe Bill Gates quit college. How have the ultra-educated CEO's of DAL ran your airline?

I believe the phrase is "run your airline", not ran! Takes little to no education to post here as evidenced by your posts! Takes education to post an intelligent argument. Obviously you are an uneducated idiot and have no shot at Delta. You do not care? Then why post the question about the Delta interview process? Bill gates dropped out of Harvard by the way. Not your local community college. Can you Biggie Size my order please!

 

[Remington]

Harvard Schmarvard, he still dropped out. That is a college right? So uneducated individuals cannot make intelligent arguments? I disagree. Education might enhance someone's arguing ability, but the lack of education does not prohibit the ability to argue successfully. What pedigree do you have that makes you such an expert on the issue? Is it that you are a Legacy pilot so you know everything, or did you go to "that little boys school in Co. Springs?"