Delta sellsout and takes 290 million cut

[regionaltard]

They could be pissed to the extreme and unemployed. Life deals crap sandwiches sometimes and you either eat them or walk away hungry.

Management has done a remarkably good job of framing the issue as a choice between the two. Until a pilot group decides to take the Red Pill and see what's on the other side nothing will change. Delta has traditionally been a "Blue Pill" airline, but maybe times have changed enough and they're ready to be "the ones."

 

[magrs]

I doubt it!

There isn't an airline pilot group around today that will stand up to management! They have us all pissing into a gale force wind. Everytime we call their bluff, they make a public statement and John Q. Public calls us a bunch of greedy bastards. We cave, management comes out looking like geniuses and we, the pilots bitch some more.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

IMHO, we will see much more merger activity before labor gets decent traction in negotiations.

You probably already know (from a management point of view) financing and merger options will be greatly enhanced by lower labor costs.

Just calling it like I see it. Our Republican led, global oriented, economy has orchestrated this phase in airline history, not me.

 

[Buckaroo]

Is this like the promise to not file B.K. if you gave them 1 billion? Stop pissing in the wind and shut this turd down. Vote NO.

Gee - what an A$$hole that Einstein is......

 

[General Lee]

Stop, stop, stop. Wait a minute. We don't really know yet what the TA entails, but the WSJ did say a $290 million annual savings. The current pay cut is included, not an additional pay cut, and that is worth $152 million of that $290 million. The other $140 or so million could be credit for a pension dump, which could mean no other out of pocket. The sick leave package ALPA proposed (not the bad proposal from the company) was supposedly accepted, so that was a win. It would give a rollong bank of 270 sick hours per three years, which could also add the next 3 years chunk onto it if needed. Sounds complex, but that is what I remember, and it was a lot better than management's proposal. Other than that, we supposedly did not lose many work rules, and this is all MOOT since the MEC hasn't even voted on it yet. The 3 ATL reps told us on Thursday (the day before the TA) that no planes over 70 seats for DCI. All 3 of them stated that. I read that the NY reps said the same thing to their people on Thurs also. They are all held to their word. So, TUES the reps will be briefed by the negotiators, and then they will vote. If they vote YES, then it goes to the membership, and I am telling you most of us (over 50% I bet) will not go for scope erosion. I won't. Stay tuned.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Ty Webb]

I'm curious as to what would be the pilots' better alternative. Do you really think they can find a better job somewhere else? Do you think anyone wants to go interview and start at the bottom again? What kind of money will they make elsewhere? How long will it take them to make the same amount of money, they're making now, even with the pay cuts?

Are you living in the same Millenium as the rest of us? I have had 3 former Delta pilots flying as FO with me in the past few months, and there are a lot more in the pipeline to interview at AirTran. I am sure there are some bailing every day for CAL, Fedex, SWA, UPS and others. Hmmm, 3 years to 737 CA at AirTran, or reserve 737-200 FO for the past 3 years . . . . hmmmm, big choice.

Hopefully, Delta will return to being "the place to be", but right now, I don't think it's surprising guys are leaving.

 

[Heavy Set]

Stop, stop, stop. Wait a minute. We don't really know yet what the TA entails, but the WSJ did say a $290 million annual savings. The current pay cut is included, not an additional pay cut, and that is worth $152 million of that $290 million. The other $140 or so million could be credit for a pension dump, which could mean no other out of pocket. The sick leave package ALPA proposed (not the bad proposal from the company) was supposedly accepted, so that was a win. It would give a rollong bank of 270 sick hours per three years, which could also add the next 3 years chunk onto it if needed. Sounds complex, but that is what I remember, and it was a lot better than management's proposal. Other than that, we supposedly did not lose many work rules, and this is all MOOT since the MEC hasn't even voted on it yet. The 3 ATL reps told us on Thursday (the day before the TA) that no planes over 70 seats for DCI. All 3 of them stated that. I read that the NY reps said the same thing to their people on Thurs also. They are all held to their word. So, TUES the reps will be briefed by the negotiators, and then they will vote. If they vote YES, then it goes to the membership, and I am telling you most of us (over 50% I bet) will not go for scope erosion. I won't. Stay tuned.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I have heard this as well. If the reps are promising one thing and then delivering another, I am sure there will be huge outcry from the DAL pilot group. I would be surprised if they actually negotiated something completely against the demands of the union membership... Are they listening at all???

My Delta friends tell me that a NO vote is highly likely if scope has been altered. I am sure a lot of people are anxiously awaiting the details of the TA and the resulting reaction - including the union officials who clearly don't understand what the membership actually wants - NO SCOPE CHANGES....

 

[FDJ2]

Don't get too hung up on the $$$. The value of the TA can be easily manipulated. For example, the company stated that there demand was worth $325M, ALPA's analysis of the same demand was north of $600M. The $290M figure is probably just for public consumption.

 

[Whale Rider]

Don't let them finance thier Golden Parachutes on the backs of your concessions.:uzi:

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Are you living in the same Millenium as the rest of us? I have had 3 former Delta pilots flying as FO with me in the past few months, and there are a lot more in the pipeline to interview at AirTran. I am sure there are some bailing every day for CAL, Fedex, SWA, UPS and others. Hmmm, 3 years to 737 CA at AirTran, or reserve 737-200 FO for the past 3 years . . . . hmmmm, big choice.

Hopefully, Delta will return to being "the place to be", but right now, I don't think it's surprising guys are leaving.

SWA has seen active Delta pilots start class the last 18 months. I wonder about UPS and CAL.

I know a dude at Delta that has seen the reserve thing in the -200. He went from 757 FO in 2001 to MD 88 FO then -200 FO. He was a couple dozen off the bottom at the last furlough. But since then he has moved into the -800 with all the recalls. Lots of movement the last couple of years that I'm thinking will soon stop since retirements will be next to nil for 5 years. If I was on reserve now on the -200 I would be searching for another job.

FedEx has a policy of not interviewing active major pilots (DAL, AA, NWA, UAL, USAir). Apparently, according to Jack Lewis, they had their chance to interview at FedEx before 2001 and chose not too. He's like an Elephant and never forgets.

Other than that, I agree with you Ty. I think its a good move over to Airtran. Good on Airtran for interviewing Delta folks.