Delta selling aircraft

[General Lee]

Remember, we are selling aircraft we don't have yet. Our current aircraft still have many years left on leases, and we have parked planes before and brought them out of the desert--like our 737-300Gs now on the Shuttle. Those 737-800s could very well be going to a lessor like GECAS, and coming back later. Also, that money used to buy them could go to paying off debt or to 100 seaters. Nobody but the Delta management knows for sure. Yes, they want paycuts badly, and there are things that Dalpa wants in return, like no more bonuses for managment while there are paycuts for regular employees, and contract extensions---because we could give up some now and still get hammered during negotiations. They will have to pick one or the other. It is in our best interest to help the company, but not get "taken" in the process.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

General,
In one sentence you say that the senior pilots are getting alot of
"green slips" and then later, " Dalpa guys I have talked to say they will NOT increase productivity until the furloughs get back".
That sure sounds like the senior guys are 'increasing their own productivity'. Shouldn't they NOT pick these up so scheduling can tell mgmnt they need more pilots????

 

[General Lee]

ATR-drivr,

In some ways, you are correct. But, all of the senior guys would tell you that accepting a greenslip prevents Delta from "assigning" a trip to someone who doesn't want to fly it anyways. The guy on reserve who has days off can now supposedly stay with his family while the guy with the days off who wants the extra cash can have the trip. Get it? I know that sounds stupid and I have not and would not take one, but there are guys who do. And, Delta does look at the number of greenslips awarded and apparently will call back more if that number $$$$$ gets too high.(Apparently) We can only hope that more recalls will be on the way.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[N2264J]

ATR-drivr,

In some ways, you are correct. But, all of the senior guys would tell you that accepting a greenslip prevents Delta from "assigning" a trip to someone who doesn't want to fly it anyways. The guy on reserve who has days off can now supposedly stay with his family while the guy with the days off who wants the extra cash can have the trip. Get it?
Bye Bye--General Lee:rolleyes

Yeah, I get it. You and your MEC blame the your furlough problems on Comair while the senior guys pick up open time. Quite a racket.

 

[General Lee]

N2264J,

A very small percentage of our 7600 or so pilots get greenslips, and it is a personal choice. I choose not to do it, and we were sued by Delta for not doing it during our contract negotiations, and lost. You and I both know that UNITY sometimes doesn't exist in every airline. (There might be some exceptions....)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

Re: Re: Delta selling aircraft

Yeah, I get it. You and your MEC blame the your furlough problems on Comair while the senior guys pick up open time. Quite a racket.

No one blames our furloughs on Comair. That's just more " I'm a victim" dribble from the rejected, jealousy driven chumps better known as the RJDC. The DAL pilots have shown a great deal of support for our furloughed pilots and we have reduced our CAP to 75 hours. Those "green slips", you refer to, directly effect the manning formula at our company and they are consistant with our PWA. I suppose you blame ASA pilots for flying reregistered CMR jets during the CMR strike and effectively bringing about a TA with no appreciable gains from the last offer.

 

[General Lee]

Hey, I think the Skywest guys flew CMR CRJs also. Greenslips were designed to "punish" the company for not having the correct manning formula---paying twice the pay for not having enough pilots. It seems, though, that the company would rather pay twice now than have to pay for extra benefits for more personel. Everyone except the senior guys lose on that one, but they now can't complain if they eventually get paycuts---because they have now made up the difference with all of the extra cash in ADVANCE.

Bye Bye--General Lee


ALSO: The 737-800s were sold were to "a third PARTY." We do not know who that is, and someone I talked to in the ATL Chief Pilot's Office said he didn't know who they went to, but said that management said it wasn't to a "competitor." Could it be a lessor???

 

[FlyingSig]

ATR-drivr,

In some ways, you are correct. But, all of the senior guys would tell you that accepting a greenslip prevents Delta from "assigning" a trip to someone who doesn't want to fly it anyways. The guy on reserve who has days off can now supposedly stay with his family while the guy with the days off who wants the extra cash can have the trip. Get it?

I got it... only I think ATR-drivr really gets it.

A. the guy on reserve on days off that wanted those days off was stupid enough to answer the phone, then little can be done for that person.

B. While other assignments (jetway/ACARS/etc..) may hold true at first, take a look at what would happen if nobody did green slip. Yes, people would start getting assigned. But that would only be temporary. First the people getting assigned will have conflicts with future flying. That future flying will need to be covered, but if all the reserves are out flying, and the people who were supposed to fly the trip now can't due to legalities, then you have a staffing problem and need more pilots.

Greenslipping is a contractual benifit. Unless you take it out of the contract there is nothing the union can do to prevent it. However, ATR-drivr... the senior guys haven't really been the problem. While the 777 and the 767-400 have been having staffing issues due to retirements, I've noticed the largest chunk of greenslips coming from the co-pilot side of the fence (737 and MD88).


N2264J

FDJ2 hit the nail on the head. Get over it. I'm a DAL furloughee and I don't blame any Comair pilot or the Comair MEC for being furloughed. Nor do I blame them for hiring pilots while DAL furloughed pilots. Blocking employment opportunities for furloughed pilots? Yes, that's another story..... but being furloughed ... no.



....back to lurking mode....

 

[Freebrd]

Reuters
Delta Sold 737 Jet Slots to Lombard
Friday October 17, 4:08 pm ET
By Kathy Fieweger


CHICAGO (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines Inc. (NYSEAL - News) has sold 11 Boeing (NYSE:BA - News) 737-800s scheduled for delivery in 2005 to Lombard Aviation Capital, an aircraft finance unit of Royal Bank of Scotland (London:RBS.L - News), according to sources familiar with the matter.
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Delta, in its third-quarter earnings release earlier this week, said it had agreed to sell the 11 737-800s to an unnamed third party, reducing its capital spending by about $500 million through 2005, while incurring a fourth-quarter charge of $26 million.

The deal also included an option for 10 additional aircraft scheduled for delivery in 2006 and 2007.

Atlanta-based Delta, the No. 3 U.S. airline, also announced it would defer until 2008 delivery of eight more 737-800 aircraft originally slated for 2005, but said it would still take delivery of two 777-200s in 2005 as scheduled.

Selling aircraft delivery positions outright is not typical, the sources said. Airlines generally arrange sale/leaseback transactions or delay taking deliveries.

"What that tells you is that Delta made some money off of this," said one source who asked not to be identified.

A spokeswoman for Delta declined to comment. Officials of Lombard Aviation could not immediately be reached to comment.

Boeing declined to comment on the specifics of the transaction.

"We are going to be selling these airplanes to Delta and what Delta does with them after that is between them and their third party," said Boeing spokesman Nicolaas Meijer.

DEMAND FOR NEWER 737S HOLDING UP

While demand for many older, classic jet models including some of the 737 family is down sharply since the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, the newer 737-800 series has held up relatively well.

Executives of Lombard Aviation, which entered the aircraft lessor ranks shortly after the U.S. airline industry staggered into an unprecedented financial crisis in late 2001, have stated they believe the jet leasing market has reached a low point.

The lessor is said to be aggressively adding to its aircraft portfolio in anticipation of a market rebound.

When airline traffic fully recovers and airlines begin to post consistently profitable results, desirable aircraft will become more scarce and lease rates will rise.

Delta reported its third-quarter loss was halved to $164 million, or $1.36 per share, compared with a net loss of $326 million, or $2.67, a year earlier. But it also forecast a loss of between $225 million and $275 million in the fourth quarter.

(Additional reporting by Chris Stetkiewicz in Seattle)

 

[ASApuppy]

Delta selling jets to leasing companies is not new. It may be new to the mainlline, but has been standard practice at ASA dating back to pre 9-11 days. Here is the gig as it was explained to me..... When Delta signed that big order with Bombardier for almost 500 jets, they got one hell of a price break. Basically, the $22 million sticker price slashed to $15 million. Delta must buy the jet to get this price. They then flew it home. It is now used. Next day, sell it to a leasing company for $20 million and sign long term lease. Delta walks away with $5 millon cash. Increases their debt, but improves their cash position. With the 20 year exclusive provider contract that Delta signed with Boeing in the late 90's, I know that Delta is able to secure these jets for far less than any leasing company. Funny thing to me was how they were able spin a charge into this. Anything to show a loss and get the employees to beg for a concession.

I'll bet anything, that these aircraft show up on property at the mainline. Scare tactics.............

 

[General Lee]

ASAPUPPY,

I like the way you think. But, from what I have heard is that they were sold to a lessor with a "non competitor" clause---meaning that they will go somewhere outside the country. That is ok, though---we should use the planes we have more throughout the day---and we have nice planes overall. (even the 737-200s can autoland) The problem is that we continue to give up routes, especially in the West.

Bye Bye--General Lee