Delta screws over Mesaba Pilots compared to Compass

[titans10]

But hey, you can look at those newhires at ASA, and proudly tell them, "I bought my job here at ASA so you didn't have to.":laugh::laugh:


Very true statement. Everyone hired atleast in the mid to late 90's were PFT.

 

[regionalcap]

This doesn't surprise some of us PCL128....Yet another failed example of a "flowthrough"....

This statement pisses me off. How the hell did it fail? 100 Mesaba guys and the Compass guys get to go to Delta!! How many Delta guys flowed back?!? Of course, some of those hired in recent years (myself included) didn't have a flowthrough and had to do it the old fashioned way. I am glad to have new hires below me but your statement just comes across as dumb.

 

[xjhawk]

Also compass pilots were hired by nwa captains where as mesaba guys were hired by joe mesaba. It sucks mesaba guys sorry

The ironic thing is that very junior mesaba guys who were those 300 hour wonder hires who were furloughed and then picked up at compass will upgrade and flow to Delta now. Thats great of Delta leaving so many highly qualified Mesaba pilots at Pinnacle. We all had career expectations. I am sick of broken promises.

I understand our flow agreement did not have balls behind it like compass's did but come on! heck I do not think I was as close as a 3-4 year flow but at least it was a great backup plan. Now we are sitting here wondering how many years it will be before Amercian-United (continental)-Southwest will be hiring. I should think that those very jr compass guys will be at compass for quite some time before those airlines burn through their current furlough list.

This blows. Someone please call 1800 ask gary to see if a class action lawsuit would hold water for lost career expectations

 

[RiddleRat]

Its the luck of the draw, I mean heck look @ Eagle, a few of them are flowing to AA as the rest of the eagle drivers are stuck and having to wait to do a standard interview. It is a result of the discussions between your MEC. Going to court I don't think would at all help the case other than put Mesaba at the same level of respect (or lack their of) as Comair... The flowthrough wasn't something I dont think a lot of people planned on but only hoped worked out. To get spun up cause Compass got a better deal, lets see how "better of a deal" it would of been if Delta/NWA furloughed and only 100 guys were able to flow back to Mesaba, as opposed to the entire Compass list being flushed.

Get over it move on and welcome to the regionals, BOHICA

 

[callowayhd]

The ironic thing is that very junior mesaba guys who were those 300 hour wonder hires who were furloughed and then picked up at compass will upgrade and flow to Delta now. Thats great of Delta leaving so many highly qualified Mesaba pilots at Pinnacle. We all had career expectations. I am sick of broken promises.

I understand our flow agreement did not have balls behind it like compass's did but come on! heck I do not think I was as close as a 3-4 year flow but at least it was a great backup plan. Now we are sitting here wondering how many years it will be before Amercian-United (continental)-Southwest will be hiring. I should think that those very jr compass guys will be at compass for quite some time before those airlines burn through their current furlough list.

This blows. Someone please call 1800 ask gary to see if a class action lawsuit would hold water for lost career expectations

I was one of them, now someday i hope you will be my gear bitch!

 

[Ad Lib]

Most outside observers are surprised the Mesaba flow was not canceled instantly. It does appear the Delta MEC negotiated to protect the flow.

What is not clear is why the line was drawn where it was drawn. Anyone have details? Anyone know if it is a set number, meaning if pilots bypass the right to flow would transfer to a more junior pilot?

For those below the line, at least you will enjoy more rapid advancement in position and seniority as pilots leave.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Most outside observers are surprised the Mesaba flow was not canceled instantly. It does appear the Delta MEC negotiated to protect the flow.

What is not clear is why the line was drawn where it was drawn. Anyone have details? Anyone know if it is a set number, meaning if pilots bypass the right to flow would transfer to a more junior pilot?

For those below the line, at least you will enjoy more rapid advancement in position and seniority as pilots leave.

Supposedly, it was Delta management that wanted the flows to end. They want the ability to hand pick, not just have to take those that have put in many years already flying THIER passengers. The line was drawn at 108 to be able to flow from the begininng of the merged Delta. 27 this year and the remaining whenever there are more classes (told not likely til next fall) The cutoff is at 233. This is a hard number, even if everyone that can up to that number turn down the flowup, it is done there. It is not the next 81 that want to go can. It is 9 per class/month up to the person that is currently #233 on the list. (that person is the cutoff when it gets to him reguardless of what is actual number is when his chance comes) Aparantly Delta management wanted a firm cutoff point/person. And both MEC's couldn't get them to budge off that. The alternative was the immediate ending of the flow with just the 2 classes of 9 going.
They claim that we still get preferred interview status as a DCI, but we all know that is worth about as much as the average rampie in DTW...

 

[xjgearbtch]

My bet is we will become the leper of Delta like we were with NWA. Want a job at Delta, don't work at Mesaba. Good luck everyone with your future job at ______ (not Delta). I'm so disgusted.

 

[titans10]

My bet is we will become the leper of Delta like we were with NWA. Want a job at Delta, don't work at Mesaba. Good luck everyone with your future job at ______ (not Delta). I'm so disgusted.

I know back in 2000 and 2001, alot of former mesaba guys/girls were hired by NWA. Your statement is untrue.

 

[ultrarunner]

My issue isn't with the DAPLPA, they didn't have final controlling authority of retaining mesaba's flow thru. Delta management is who I have a beef with. Hence my thread title.

Management ALWAYS has the right to control who they want on property. That's why management makes the call, and not the union.

That they choose one group over another is just the way it goes. Get pissedOff for a day, and move on!

 

[xjgearbtch]

I know back in 2000 and 2001, alot of former mesaba guys/girls were hired by NWA. Your statement is untrue.

When our MEC first pitched the flow thru to us, they had statistics that stated otherwise. You had a better chance of getting hired by NWA if you worked for AE/Comair/Skywest etc, then Mesaba. This was part of the reason why we wanted the flow system in the first place. NWA pretty much owned us. Why hire a mesaba pilot and pay for two training events? NWA can hire from its competitors regional and cut its training costs.

I'm willing to bet that Delta will hire less then 20 XJ pilots for the duration that the flow continues. It sure would be nice if I was wrong, there's a ton of well qualified pilots working here.

 

[SLUF4]

I know of at least one Mesaba guy that got hired even outside the flow at Delta

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Correct, one very well connected MEM captain did get hired outside the flow.

 

[titans10]

When our MEC first pitched the flow thru to us, they had statistics that stated otherwise. You had a better chance of getting hired by NWA if you worked for AE/Comair/Skywest etc, then Mesaba. This was part of the reason why we wanted the flow system in the first place. NWA pretty much owned us. Why hire a mesaba pilot and pay for two training events? NWA can hire from its competitors regional and cut its training costs.

I'm willing to bet that Delta will hire less then 20 XJ pilots for the duration that the flow continues. It sure would be nice if I was wrong, there's a ton of well qualified pilots working here.

Maybe that was your MEC way of pitching the flow thru to you guys. I still diagree with that statement about being seen as an leper by NWA and not getting hired.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

When our MEC first pitched the flow thru to us, they had statistics that stated otherwise. You had a better chance of getting hired by NWA if you worked for AE/Comair/Skywest etc, then Mesaba. This was part of the reason why we wanted the flow system in the first place. NWA pretty much owned us. Why hire a mesaba pilot and pay for two training events? NWA can hire from its competitors regional and cut its training costs.

I'm willing to bet that Delta will hire less then 20 XJ pilots for the duration that the flow continues. It sure would be nice if I was wrong, there's a ton of well qualified pilots working here.

DL does not follow NW hiring practices. They prefer to hire from their Connection carriers (sorry... Comair is a bit of an exception, but that's a whole other discussion) and have proven that over and over in the past.

The way the flows were sunsetted were exactly the way I figured would be the most fair way. The CPZ guys that were currently on property were grandfathered in and they went above and beyond even giving the XJ guys what they got.

As has previiously been stated, XJ had a very restrictive flowthrough and any XJ guy on property that wasn't very senior really was looking at a pipedream for flowing. Remember that DALPA, XJ-ALPA, CPZ-ALPA, and DAL management jointly negotiated this LOA.

Looks like current figures for hiring next year are looking to be around 500. Subtract out the CPZ and XJ flows that will be brought on and you have how many slots will be available off the street (which is what I prefer anyways... I'd much rather be able to reccomend the people that I know are the best candidates vs. flows).

As far as JoeMerchant's long time predictions that no one would ever flow. Would you like a fork with your crow?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Also, in regards only those with whale captain recs getting hired, I know of several that had recs only from just one junior FO or even none that got the job offer this time.

Both guys that I know that had senior widebody recommendations/family got turned away.

Doesn't help that myth...

 

[Flyer1015]

(which is what I prefer anyways... I'd much rather be able to reccomend the people that I know are the best candidates vs. flows).

There are two 26 yr old CAs that I know from Pinnacle who got hired on at Delta, one with a dad at NWA (ex-Republic) and the other with a dad at Delta. One of them is you. There goes that myth. 26! Not everyone has a Delta daddy. Flows gave some guys a fighting chance who didn't have the Delta blood line flowing through their dad's sperm.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

There are two 26 yr old CAs that I know from Pinnacle who got hired on at Delta, one with a dad at NWA (ex-Republic) and the other with a dad at Delta. One of them is you. There goes that myth. 26! Not everyone has a Delta daddy. Flows gave some guys a fighting chance who didn't have the Delta blood line flowing through their dad's sperm.

Sigh.... really? First off, my dad retired from NORTHWEST years (retired early 2004) before I got hired by DELTA.... and I got hired by DELTA a year and a half before the merger was even announced, much less became effective. So... wrong wrong wrong, and there goes that myth. Delta could have cared less who my dad was. I got hired without a Delta daddy just like 99% of my friends that I know here as well as helped get hired here. There was only one person in my newhire class who's dad was a DL guy.

Fyi, I'm 29 years old now. I do know of one guy that got the job offer this round who fits in the mold you stated, and who is probably who you are thinking of. He is an absolutely top notch guy but unfortunately will not be joining us.

Again... there goes that myth.

 

[Flyer1015]

Hey, man more power to ya. Wish I coulda done it. Who doesn't?

See PM

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Hey, man more power to ya. Wish I coulda done it. Who doesn't?

See PM

PM sent. I'd appreciate it if you would retract your statement about "DL dad's sperm" upon receipt considering what you previously asserted.