Delta RFP - will Delta pay for the gas?

[Hobit]

So many positive responses.

No need for an epiphany unless that means saying one thing and doing another.

You didn't nudge, YOU caved.

 

[General Lee]

So many positive responses.

No need for an epiphany unless that means saying one thing and doing another.

You didn't nudge, YOU caved.

Thanks for telling me what I did.......? Actually, I looked at the facts, and made the correct choice. Nothing you can say can change that. If you can't accept that, you need to leave or just quit aviation. I won't. Sounds like you need to quit. See ya.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Hobit]

R U Saying Caving is correct?

Edited to diplay the institution of the BS filter:

"This message is hidden because General Lee is on your ignore list."


Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

[General Lee]

R U Saying Caving is correct?

Ummmmmm, NO. Sure, I stated many things PRIOR to seeing the actual TA, and then I had to make a decision. I made the correct one.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

R U Saying Caving is correct?

Edited to diplay the institution of the BS filter:

"This message is hidden because General Lee is on your ignore list."


Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Well, at least we know he couldn't debate me. Ignore me all you want, I really don't care.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[johnsonrod]

So many positive responses.

No need for an epiphany unless that means saying one thing and doing another.

You didn't nudge, YOU caved.

Get a clue Hobit. I am a regional pilot and I can see that the DAL guys made the right decision based on the facts presented and the difficult economic environment. As I recall, the TA was not as drastic as everyone expected and there were enough provisions to protect the mainline guys to make it worthwhile. Everyone expected it to be much worse than it turned out to be. I hear the furloughed pilots are gradually being called back too - and that was never a certainty before the TA. The fact that he changed his mind after evaluating the new information and then admitted it on this website is actually pretty impressive (and ball$y with all the numbnutz on this board).

Most regional pilots like myself will have to make some big decisions in the coming months/year. This business will never be a career - only a stepping stone and that's too bad. I am quickly looking for my exit and this Delta RFP situation helps me make up my mind...

 

[Hobit]

I have a Clue, PAL.
Regionals WILL become a career for the younger crowd as the scope is continuously eroded. The chief chest thumper clogged the regional section prior to his vote and lauded the choice over the DCI people only to do the opposite.
He voted to allow more seats at DCI plain and simple.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

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The signal to noise ratio is lousy and someone desperately needs to get a frigging life.
I think it might be worth ten bucks to join propilotworld.com if GL isn't over there. It gets tiring seeing that many posts on a single thread even with the ingore feature.

 

[Tomct]

:angryfireWell General, Big D better get their head out of the sand because if ASA goes on strike...or should I say WHEN ASA goes on strike, Big D will only last a short time before imploding! Now I KNOW that you won't fly struck work.....RIGHT?

 

[bvt1151]

GL must be making up for his missed posts.

geesh.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Paying for the fuel difference is ridiculous.

When I talked about Lawson, I was just remembering how he was sooo greedy asking for extra 70 seaters when our furloughed pilots were out of luck. A lot of us will never forget that, and I wasn't even furloughed.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General: Guess what - Delta pays for all the gas, not just a portion of it, not just a "difference." Delta negotiates a rate and if it says "Delta" on the side of the airplane that is the rate it goes in at, plus a small fee for the folks pumping the gas.

But if contracts are re-written so that SkyWest negotiates their own fuel contracts, then Delta will still buy all the gas because the price will be figured into the revised contract.

You apparently don't understand what Regional Airlines are these days - we are basically aircraft leasing companies. Usually leasing companies don't buy fuel - it is a pass through because the customer gets a better deal that way.

Delta makes these contracts, they are the 900lb gorilla. You think measley ASA holds them up when there is a glut of 50 seat RJ's on the market? - hardly. We make money the old fashioned way, by paying slave wages, spending nearly nothing on service and delivering about 1/3 of what we promise. Delta's passengers surely suffer, but Delta calls the shots and it seems they like the lowest bidder.

As for Lawson, you give the man mythical powers. First, Delta Management decided where and what they were going to outsource. (Now here is the news flash) ** ALPA then adjusted its scope policy to meet Management's plans ** and you see the result.

Lawson did the right thing by trying to establish a dialogue with the Delta MEC instead of a cram down. Lawson wanted to talk about brand scope - wich we obviously need and your MEC Chairman refused.

As the RJDC litigation continues we are learning why your MEC Chairman refused. Could it be that ALPA and Delta Management were working in partnership on scope changes and that ALPA National provided the Delta pilots with economic analysis of the benefits Delta would recieve as a result of concessionary bargaining at Connection, which was used as bargaining capital?

It isn't that the DCI pilots are responsible for your concessions, but the documentation from the RJDC lawsuit certainly indicates ALPA, on the behalf of the Delta pilots, has an active role in DCI concessions.

And isn't this what we sort of suspected anyway? With every concession Delta would announce its intentions, the Delta MEC would go nuts and threaten to shut the place down, then the final result would be pretty much whatever Delta wanted?

I'm telling you - ALPA really boned up this deal and they continue down the wrong road purely out of mainline arrogrance. We are all getting screwed by this alpa apartied system.

At least you and I agree on one thing! We both would like to see the RJ's go to Delta mainline. Me, just so I can see you guys fly them at rates which are below ASA, Chautauqua, Republic, Air Wisconsin, Shuttle America or Horizon (and if I failed to mention SkyWest it is because I don't fully comprehend how they make $15 less than me an hour but take home $40,000 more a year with profit sharing - but when I figure it out they will also have rates over what your MEC secured on "our" equipment.)

But it brings us back to the point - your MEC negotiated these rates on phantom airplanes to try to help management reduce costs at Connection. Thanks, ALPA. We must have offset enough of your concessions, because you voted for it.

~~~^~~~

 

[outtahere]

Question, does ASA or any other conection carrier have anything that the Delta pilots didn't give us? I mean its not like we went to Delta and said hey we can do this route cheaper than mainline, however that is exactly what is happening right now at the regionals and all ALPA can concern themselves with is mainline problems. Don't be an Indian giver Delta pilots, if you willingly give up scope then accept your fate like a man and quit bitching about it. As for the freedumb, skywest, and ********************taco folks you all better step it up in contract negotiations or you will continue to be looked upon as the trash you seem to be.

 

[crzepilot]

Skywest's answer to the $40,000 a year question...It is their Union dues at work

 

[vtchaz]

One contract doesn't fit all...

You apparently don't understand what Regional Airlines are these days - we are basically aircraft leasing companies. Usually leasing companies don't buy fuel - it is a pass through because the customer gets a better deal that way.
~~~^~~~

Don't assume all contracts and regionals are the same. The biggest problem pilots have is a lack of knowledge in business and about what is going on at companies outside of their own. It will continue to be our downfall if we don't educate ourselves and stop yelling at each other comparing two things which in reality are not the same.

For example, most of Colgan's contracts (if not all) are not structured this way. Colgan pays all expenses, from Fuel to baggage delivery (despite the fact that they have no control over misconnecting bags). This makes the liability to the mainline carrier practically nil. The flipside to this agreement is that Colgan sets the fares and the schedules. No one tells them when to fly or for how much. They add and remove flights as they see fit and adjust the prices as well. If they know what they're doing (and they do) then they maximize their profit without leaching off the mainline carrier or losing out on strong revenue.

I don't know if this would work with all regionals, but it is another form of contract that is proven and continues to work.

 

[goahead]

Another shi_ty GL thread going no where..........

Yes master your are the greatest......

 

[737 Pylt]

737 take a break, the general doesn't need hummers from you every day. There is only one thing worse than being the general, it's being his little playground bitch that stands behind him talking smack.

That's pretty funny....Now if only your mom will remove herself from the bent over position on the basketball court, the pro team can get back to practicing for the upcoming season!
737

 

[737 Pylt]

Hey LEEna,
It's not too late to come on over to WN. You can use your next vacation to get your 737 type, unless you got one during your time serving your country. In 2 years when DL finally goes tits up, you'll be glad you did. You can thank Plato for your career mistake.

hey miles, how many knee pads did you go through to pay off that 737 type? I hear your mom is still paying off your braces through "favors" done during football camp!
737

 

[Nindiri]

Man, you guys are brutal to each other. :laugh:

 

[John Pennekamp]

Well, leave the poor General alone. With the TA he said would never pass passing, he's enjoying a full schedule due to the productivity increases. And the pay cut caused him to put his Redneck Humvee up for sale, take out a second mortgage on his Redneck Mansion in PTC, get a second job at Home Depot, and spend more time catering to his "hot wife" so she doesn't run off with some 250lb balding ASA pilot in the neighborhood who's making more money flying a CRJ-700.

All that doesn't leave much time for Flightinfo, so when he posts, he has to piss off as many people as possible to get the bang for his buck.

 

[John Pennekamp]

737 take a break, the general doesn't need hummers from you every day. There is only one thing worse than being the general, it's being his little playground bitch that stands behind him talking smack.

That's funny. I'm picturing a girl on the playground having a fight with another girl, and her entourage behind her yelling insults at the other girl, and repreating everything she says and snapping. That's 737pylt. We should start caling him Shaniqua.