Delta RFP awarded....

[SSDD]

You know how it should work? Just like every other figgin union in the country. For example, my wife is a heavy equipment operating engineer. When her union goes on strike, other local chapters will NEVER and NEVER HAVE taken on the jobs of the union on strike.

Also other chapters never cross into anothers territory because they can do the work cheaper.

I ask again as I did in another thread, why is it that pilots that belong to the same union think it is OK to screw fellow union members that happen to work for a different company out of a job?

My answer to the Skywest guy that asks what he should do is, support your fellow pilot collegues by NOT flying CMR routes! Pilots should act and show support in the same way that every other friggin union does!

Again, notice that it is your fellow ALPA pilots at ASA taking most of "your" flying...

Just trying to keep you honest.

 

[SkyNation]

so, according to this fantasy, it would go something like this?

Delta (or whoever) has flying to award to a regional. They will only award to:

-current ALPA carriers (part of the club)
-for rates equal to or above those currently being paid ('raising the bar')
-only incremental or new flying, never in place of a current partner (having each others backs)

sounds super! I'm sure that if we all 'pull together' and 'stand strong' that this will surely come to pass.

...either that or the free market will decide. hmmmmmm.....

 

[XJohXJ]

We have to abide by the law. Unfortunately, the law does not allow us to refuse flying unless it is struck work. Once a strike is over or a company being struck has liquidated, then that flying is no longer struck work, and no one has the legal ability to refuse it.

What if mainline MEC's negotiated into their contracts that all out sourced flying must be done by ALPA represented regionals? How about if we used what tools we have to start cleaning up the mess we have made?

 

[B727FA]

What the hell is a "modo"?

My guess is "mode of operation."

 

[CFIT]

What if mainline MEC's negotiated into their contracts that all out sourced flying must be done by ALPA represented regionals? How about if we used what tools we have to start cleaning up the mess we have made?

Great idea! Then management would say " what do you want to give up for that? pay rate, work rules, scope?" The mainline pilots would then say "nevermind"

So much for your little club.

 

[PCL_128]

What if mainline MEC's negotiated into their contracts that all out sourced flying must be done by ALPA represented regionals? How about if we used what tools we have to start cleaning up the mess we have made?

I agree with you. That's exactly what needs to be done. The problem is convincing the mainline MECs to do this. They'll have to make it a strike issue to make it happen, and they'll likely have to actually strike in order to get it. It's exactly what needs to be done, but I doubt we'll see it happen in our lifetimes.

 

[Texx]

out of ink.

 

[Palerider957]

ALPA, scope, contracts, etc., are only stop-gap measures. In the end, the free market will rule. Each of you needs to decide your own stepping off point. At what point do you decide enough is enough and leave the industry.

Throughout history, every time the free market has been artificially hampered, the results have been poor.

All I am saying is, don't count on ALPA, MEC's, scope, for the security of your family.

 

[joe_pilot]

I would like to see what the SkyWest guys would say if someone came in and undercut them?

They say we should not talk crap about them because "they believe in their mgmt" and "their mgmt will take care of them if they fly every jet in the world for a single rate"

They need to pop that bubble that is Skywest and return to the real world.

In the industry there for sure is no love for a skywest puke.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and quote the pertinent parts of my post:

You don't have to agree with us for not having ALPA on property (yet). You don't have to like our (for the most part) young, attractive FA's. You don't have to like the fact that there was a belief that management would take care of us if we agreed to fly larger a/c at a single rate. I won't try and convince anyone to like me or my pilot group, but man, how about a little reality?

I'll also trust that when you said

In the industry there for sure is no love for a skywest puke.

you meant to say

In the industry there for sure is no love for a puke.

I hope I'm right. Otherwise you would just be unreasonable.

Fly safe.

-JP

 

[737 Pylt]

probably the same thing many of our folks say about them or Chattaqua or Freedom...or the same thing some Comair folks are saying about ASA right now.

But they're not saying it about all ASA guys, just pricks like you!

737

 

[arthompson]

Yes. Next question.

Sorry PCL but Regulation is not the answer either. Look back at the history of this industry, all regulation did was prop up sick companies. Free Enterprise is the way of the economy. I'm the first person to say that people should be paid fairly and treated right. The major issue I have with Comair's lift being parcelled out is that many of the routes wouldn't be in the Delta system if Comair had not independently brought them to the system. Just like many of United's routes exist because Air Wisconsin brought them to the system. For most of DL's routes however it's Deltas flying to decide how it's going to be distributed.

Is the way they're doing it fair? No, but tell me a better way.

 

[PCL_128]

Sorry PCL but Regulation is not the answer either. Look back at the history of this industry, all regulation did was prop up sick companies.

Regulation only propped up sick companies toward the latter days of it. This was due to increased liberalization of regulation policies. In the earlier days of regulation where everything was very tightly regulated, the system worked well.

The air transportation system is vital to this country's (and the world's) economy. To allow it to be constantly on the brink of implosion is absurd. Remember, this industry has never made money. Any short-term profits have always been offset by mind-numbing losses. That will always be the case in a free market system with this industry. The only business model that works for consistent profits is SWA's model, and that model only allows for a very limited number of markets to be served (I believe SWA still only serves about 55 markets even after more than three decades in business). For a company to serve the smaller markets, it has to do so at a loss. That's why SWA doesn't do it. The problem is that these smaller markets must be served to keep the economy going. If we continue this failed de-regulation scheme indefinitely, then eventually these markets will stop receiving service completely. That's not good for this country.

Is the way they're doing it fair? No, but tell me a better way.

A better way? All Delta flying should be done by pilots on the DAL seniority list. Period.

 

[Palerider957]

A better way? All Delta flying should be done by pilots on the DAL seniority list. Period.[/quote]


There really is no such thing as "Delta flying," or United flying, Northwest flying, etc, etc, etc. This isn't like a physical product, or intellectual property that can be defined and protected--even then it's precarious. Because one labor group has a contract with a corporation, doesn't mean another competitor can't compete for or utilize the same routes.

You mention the necessity for a national air system, and I completely agree. But I don't think labor unions will ever be the shepards of this system, nor will management. In the end, the free market will determine who lives and dies. There will alway be groups of masochists who want to start airlines.

If ever there is a day when there aren't enough entrepreneurs who want to create and operate airlines, then the government will need to step in with tax credits, abatement, and positive legislation.

This may be a tough pill to swallow, but it's the honest to God truth.

 

[doh]

Does anyone know who won the remaining RFP!

As long as the Delta pilots keep allowing outsourcing, nobody will "win" anything. My guess is they will never have the intestinal fortitude for such an undertaking, so git while the gittin's good!

 

[ohplease!]

If this industry is not going to be regulated, it needs to be free of the RLA.