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Delta plans no follow-on aircraft order anytime soon

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yeah I was ranting-and will continue. I will not be surprised if Delta offers "current Delta pilots a substantial pay raise and furlough protection in return for 100 seat scope". ME me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me-

go ahead and prove me wrong and I will think a little better of your pilot who love their flow back ideas
 
xjhawk said:
All you Delta guys who think you are flowing to Mesaba.....according to our union-when all but 108 of us were lied to-stabbed in the back and were not allowed to keep our promised flow like Compass was given-I say do F#$% yourself by thinking you can flow back to Mesaba screwing us even more after again being screwed by the union seniority list integration.

Yes I am pissed-not only did I lose a flow slot, but my good company was sold to a crappy one who is mismanaged with a bitter pilot group who now blames MEsaba for this......oh and then ALPA has such bad policies concerning merging seniority lists that it in essence gave one pilot group great gains in contract and seniority (colgan)-gave gains to the ultra senior mesaba pilots in seniority-while screwing the rest, and essentially is preventing may pinnacle FO's from upgrading for 5 years. AND NOW YOU WANT TO FLOW DOWN when there is threat of furloughs? Selfish busters you are- cancel my flow when you have the world at your feet and now this sort of talk-your moms must be proud
Click to expand...

This is exactly why I favor credit hour caps when pilots are furloughed instead of flowbacks. I'm not a fan of flowbacks.
Question - has there been any flowthrough up to Delta?

With the number of retirements coming at Delta, I don't see the likelihood of many/any furloughs. You generally need a pilot to be furloughed for something like 24 months for it to pay off and since age 65 retirements will kick into gear Dec 2012, there would be very little reason to furlough unless there's significant block hour reductions.
 
xjhawk said:
yeah I was ranting-and will continue. I will not be surprised if Delta offers "current Delta pilots a substantial pay raise and furlough protection in return for 100 seat scope". ME me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me-

go ahead and prove me wrong and I will think a little better of your pilot who love their flow back ideas
Click to expand...

They had a chance to do that already, when the joint contract was done with both groups. It didn't happen, so you are proven wrong.


Godspeed!


OYS
 
Sacha said:
You are not wrong. You are spot on.
Click to expand...

Please answer the question, were you Borman's spy at Eastern? Is that true? Why would you do that to your group? How was the Connie when you flew it there, btw?


Godspeed!


OYS
 
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Andy said:
Thanks. That's the answer I was expecting. Flowthroughs aren't free; it's not a one way street.
Click to expand...


Yes, quite a few Compass guys have come up, and something like 109 at Mesaba were asked, and some turned it down(?). There was no interview or psych, and they were given a class date.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
xjhawk said:
yeah I was ranting-and will continue. I will not be surprised if Delta offers "current Delta pilots a substantial pay raise and furlough protection in return for 100 seat scope". ME me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me-

go ahead and prove me wrong and I will think a little better of your pilot who love their flow back ideas
Click to expand...

As OYS stated, the previous chance for the company to gain in Scope came and went with the Joint Contract, which didn't allow any more 76 seaters (to the previous cap), and any larger aircraft. A rumor I had heard said that Delta also offered a large % increase in pay if Compass/Mesaba could get 100 seaters, which didn't happen, and then supposedly those two companies were sold. Don't know if that is true, but sounds like it could be. I think the vast majority of DL pilots won't budge on any Scope increases to the regionals, even for a lot more money. Some very senior pilots may not care, but 95% of the rest do care.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
xjhawk said:
All you Delta guys who think you are flowing to Mesaba.....according to our union-when all but 108 of us were lied to-stabbed in the back and were not allowed to keep our promised flow like Compass was given-I say do F#$% yourself by thinking you can flow back to Mesaba screwing us even more after again being screwed by the union seniority list integration.

Yes I am pissed-not only did I lose a flow slot, but my good company was sold to a crappy one who is mismanaged with a bitter pilot group who now blames MEsaba for this......oh and then ALPA has such bad policies concerning merging seniority lists that it in essence gave one pilot group great gains in contract and seniority (colgan)-gave gains to the ultra senior mesaba pilots in seniority-while screwing the rest, and essentially is preventing may pinnacle FO's from upgrading for 5 years. AND NOW YOU WANT TO FLOW DOWN when there is threat of furloughs? Selfish busters you are- cancel my flow when you have the world at your feet and now this sort of talk-your moms must be proud
Click to expand...

Oh man! I've totally forgot about this! The Mesaba flowback provisions! Can someone explain, now that Mesaba is all Pinnacle/Mesaba/Colgan with 3000 pilots, what EXACTLY does the Delta flowback mean for the new Pinnacle? As a Pinnacle or Colgan pilot, both of whom had no flowthrough ever, I better not see a single Delta pilot flow back and take our Captain seats, unless you flow here as a brand new FO on the bottom of the seniority list. Hey, it's only fair. If you'd given me a chance to flow, I could understand then. But both Pinnacle and Colgan had no dog in the Delta flowthrough/flowback arena, so why?
 
c'mon you two putzs, quit referring to one another and quit posting as soon as one of you putzs signs off, PUTZS! :rolleyes:
 
Flyer1015 said:
Oh man! I've totally forgot about this! The Mesaba flowback provisions! Can someone explain, now that Mesaba is all Pinnacle/Mesaba/Colgan with 3000 pilots, what EXACTLY does the Delta flowback mean for the new Pinnacle? As a Pinnacle or Colgan pilot, both of whom had no flowthrough ever, I better not see a single Delta pilot flow back and take our Captain seats, unless you flow here as a brand new FO on the bottom of the seniority list. Hey, it's only fair. If you'd given me a chance to flow, I could understand then. But both Pinnacle and Colgan had no dog in the Delta flowthrough/flowback arena, so why?
Click to expand...


Aren't you giving up and going to fly in the Sandpit in Qatar? Any flowbacks (I think it is equal number up, then an equal number allowed to flow back) you would ever see (very unlikely due to huge retirement numbers) would be your Captain, after you would be displaced yourself. Sorry, that's the deal. I'm sure you could mouth off to the guy, and he can tell you to do an additional walkaround, and personally de-ice the plane in Marquette.


Instead of Qatar, why don't you follow Freebud over to the Mekong Delta, and you guys can eat each other's Egg Rolls. Make sure you ask for the special sauce, too.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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I am disgusted and amazed at the arrogance the Delta guys show their brothers at Compass and Mesaba and Pinnacle and.......

GODSPEED!!

ALPA Brotherhood, Delta style.....
 
Last edited:
I agree with flyer 1015 - We had nothing to do with the Delta flow through with mesaba. I think it sucks that only a select few were allowed, I also think it really sucks for the 109th guy who was the cut off point. 108 is such a stupid number. Back to my point - now that we are a merged company if there is a flow back then it not only effects mesaba, but also colgan and pinnacle now too. I had heard that our union approached Delta's union about a possible situation to eagles with american or a possible flow through but it was turned down.
 
i fly boxes said:
I agree with flyer 1015 - We had nothing to do with the Delta flow through with mesaba. I think it sucks that only a select few were allowed, I also think it really sucks for the 109th guy who was the cut off point. 108 is such a stupid number. Back to my point - now that we are a merged company if there is a flow back then it not only effects mesaba, but also colgan and pinnacle now too. I had heard that our union approached Delta's union about a possible situation to eagles with american or a possible flow through but it was turned down.
Click to expand...

You hadn't merged with Mesaba yet. So, you would just throw out all agreements made prior to your merger? That would be against the law. What if you had agreements with engine suppliers, or mx facilities? All of those should have been thrown out? Sorry!


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Flow down Canceled

i fly boxes said:
I agree with flyer 1015 - We had nothing to do with the Delta flow through with mesaba. I think it sucks that only a select few were allowed, I also think it really sucks for the 109th guy who was the cut off point. 108 is such a stupid number. Back to my point - now that we are a merged company if there is a flow back then it not only effects mesaba, but also colgan and pinnacle now too. I had heard that our union approached Delta's union about a possible situation to eagles with american or a possible flow through but it was turned down.
Click to expand...

ALPA does not hire pilots. The flowthrough at Mesaba was worded very differently than Compass. The only reason it existed in the first place was because NWA purchased Mesaba. By doing so violated the NWA scope. MSA was to remain a "Category 2 Participating Feeder Carrier" in order to operate Avro replacements (CRJ900).

Once MSA was sold, it was once again a "Category 2 Participating Feeder Carrier" & thus the flowthrough agreement was vaporized. That's what was negotiated and was very clear to anyone who read it.

The flow up rights of 108 MSA pilots was protected. The flow down is gone. There will be no flow down of Delta Pilots to MSA or any other Pinnacle holdongs company.
 
OYS,

This doesn't sound good for you. After you get furloughed, what are you going to do?

GODSPEED!!
 
Explosive said:
ALPA does not hire pilots. The flowthrough at Mesaba was worded very differently than Compass. The only reason it existed in the first place was because NWA purchased Mesaba. By doing so violated the NWA scope. MSA was to remain a "Category 2 Participating Feeder Carrier" in order to operate Avro replacements (CRJ900).

Once MSA was sold, it was once again a "Category 2 Participating Feeder Carrier" & thus the flowthrough agreement was vaporized. That's what was negotiated and was very clear to anyone who read it.

The flow up rights of 108 MSA pilots was protected. The flow down is gone. There will be no flow down of Delta Pilots to MSA or any other Pinnacle holdongs company.
Click to expand...


I don't think that last part is a true statement. I do believe the flow downs are limited to 108 only.
 
Sacha said:
I am disgusted and amazed at the arrogance the Delta guys show their brothers at Compass and Mesaba and Pinnacle and.......

GODSPEED!!

ALPA Brotherhood, Delta style.....
Click to expand...

Maybe they should look to the benevolent SWAPA treatment of their Airtran brothers for guidance? Defending high paying mainline jobs from people doing it for a third of the wage is not arrogance.
 
I talked to a union rep and he said that the flow down at Mesaba is gone-never will happen. All you Nerds (Not-Not Ever Really Delta, but actual nerds from revenge of the nerds) on here who are bringing up the 108 pilots-that was a "gift" to our most senior pilots to keep our union leaders happy and to not fight for it anymore-thats my take anyway.
 
Sacha said:
OYS,

This doesn't sound good for you. After you get furloughed, what are you going to do?

GODSPEED!!
Click to expand...

Sasha,

Thanks to profits and huge retirement numbers, I doubt I would have to use that, but the Compass E175 flowdown is still in effect if needed. Those retirements alone will accelerate my career here upwards, while your future SLI will stunt yours, along with very few future retirements for you. You will be bored, dreaming of your Connie days at Eastern.



Godspeed!


OYS
 
xjhawk said:
I talked to a union rep and he said that the flow down at Mesaba is gone-never will happen. All you Nerds (Not-Not Ever Really Delta, but actual nerds from revenge of the nerds) on here who are bringing up the 108 pilots-that was a "gift" to our most senior pilots to keep our union leaders happy and to not fight for it anymore-thats my take anyway.
Click to expand...

Oh, too bad. The E175 is a nicer plane anyway, and my next plane hopefully will be the 757/767 on the next bid thanks to the 168 early out retirements that just happened. The next bid is next month.


Godspeed!


OYS
 
Freebrd said:
where Oys-Yo-Yo will seek employment when she gets furloughed :laugh:
Click to expand...

He'll be a checkairman at Air Mekong. Study up, Buttercup.
 
On Your Six said:
Oh, too bad. The E175 is a nicer plane anyway, and my next plane hopefully will be the 757/767 on the next bid thanks to the 168 early out retirements that just happened. The next bid is next month.


Godspeed!


OYS
Click to expand...

That's great news!! Good luck on the 757/767 award. I bet the international flying will be challenging, exciting, and there will be tons of time for culinary bliss. I certainly hope you have been there 12 years or more. At least you will get 6th year 737 SWA FO pay. BTW, I asked General Lee long ago what a DAL reserve pilot gets for min pay, what would that be?
 

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