Delta pilots want joint contract and parity

[FDJ2]

From the Delta MEC resolution AI 08-S09A passed on April 12, 2008:

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED the Delta MEC welcomes the Northwest pilots as partners in the building of the new merged airline and looks forward to working with the Northwest MEC to bring about the rapid completion of a new joint agreement to take effect on the closing of the corporate transaction providing immediate parity in rates of pay and further providing for a rapid completion of a fair and equitable integrated seniority list to take effect on the effective date of the new joint agreement....

 

[Wildmanny]

There you go!

See, y'all CAN get along.

WM

 

[Superpilot92]

Thanks for posting thats good info for us to chew on.

 

[PuffDriver]

From the Delta MEC resolution AI 08-S09A passed on April 12, 2008:

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED the Delta MEC welcomes the Northwest pilots as partners in the building of the new merged airline and looks forward to working with the Northwest MEC to bring about the rapid completion of a new joint agreement to take effect on the closing of the corporate transaction providing immediate parity in rates of pay and further providing for a rapid completion of a fair and equitable integrated seniority list to take effect on the effective date of the new joint agreement....

So much for that "under the bus" thing.


As an interesting note, something is starting to stir in la la land. We are getting 3.5% of the company, and was it 5 or 7 before? 7% initial raise taken down to 4? Details of the TA are starting to come out. Just to add fuel to the fire, the allocation of that 3.5% is not going to go per capita. It's going to be 1.75% per capita, and 1.75% seniority. Sooooooo, if the average worth is, say, 56 and the most senior 112K. That ain't flying too well with the guys getting less money also being the "low hanging fruit". I also find it interesting that the numbers have wiggle room now. Part of that trust but verify thing.

Friggin public math

 

[MJ42]

From the Delta MEC resolution AI 08-S09A passed on April 12, 2008:

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED the Delta MEC welcomes the Northwest pilots as partners in the building of the new merged airline and looks forward to working with the Northwest MEC to bring about the rapid completion of a new joint agreement to take effect on the closing of the corporate transaction providing immediate parity in rates of pay and further providing for a rapid completion of a fair and equitable integrated seniority list to take effect on the effective date of the new joint agreement....

This answers a big question. Good start. I'm already tired of the negativity from both sides that post on here.

Agree 100%, trust but verify is exactly right Puff.

 

[magrs]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but wouldn't it be something if both groups won, i.e pay raises across the board?

Let's get away from the pre-'88 wages and at least try to keep up with inflation!

Good luck to both sides, I hope and pray that if nothing else, this is where the integrity and restoration of the profession will begin.

Next up, APA and their 30.5%

I'll take 15-20%, but don't let management know!

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Remember, this "TA" that we have now is actually just an LOA as a holdover for the DL pilots until a joint agreement can be reached. It is only there so we don't get totally hosed if this thing drags out a long time.

I'm certainly looking for alot more in $$ in the joint contract.

 

[PuffDriver]

Remember, this "TA" that we have now is actually just an LOA as a holdover for the DL pilots until a joint agreement can be reached. It is only there so we don't get totally hosed if this thing drags out a long time.

I'm certainly looking for alot more in $$ in the joint contract.

Exactly the point of my post. This is something to springboard off of when we do the new joint contract. I have to say, however, that the allocation method gives me great pause. Giving ANY more of it to more senior pilots is just plain wrong, when we are taking this leap together-especially when the guys getting less are the low hanging fruit on the merger tree.

That one is going to get some serious discussion when I get ahold of somebody.

 

[~~~^~~~]

the allocation of that 3.5% is not going to go per capita. It's going to be 1.75% per capita, and 1.75% seniority.

How does one figure 1.75% * "seniority" ?

Guess they figured the junior guys would never vote for this anyway, so they might as well throw some cash at the top 50 + 1%.

Guess they figured out what to do with "relative seniority" :laugh:

 

[Monster Buck]

everyone gets equel shares of 50% of the money....then the most jun. gets pegged at 1 the most senior at 1.5, draw a line between and thats the slope for the divy of the remaining 50%.

 

[DTW320]

Sooooooo, if the average worth is, say, 80K then the most junior pilot will get 40K and the most senior 120K.

Dalpa's own published Q&A says that the most senior will get 1.4 times the most junior. Not 3 times as you are suggesting.

Not that it's any of my business.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Thanks DTW for clearing up what the D-MEC is telling their pilots.:laugh:

I think each side reads the other sides MEC Communications closer than their own pilots do.

 

[PuffDriver]

Thanks DTW for clearing up what the D-MEC is telling their pilots.:laugh:

I think each side reads the other sides MEC Communications closer than their own pilots do.

Damn public math, makes the point no less valid though.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas FDJ,

All well and good, but flowery MEC resolutions are rarely worth the paper they're printed on.

If the DAL MEC REALLY wants to make up some lost good will (and I call on the NWA MEC to do the same), why don't they publish their last "final offer" with respect to the SLI.

Then each of us can evaluate just who was being unreasonable. Oh, yea, why don't they publish some of those "scope changes" as well?

Nu

 

[d.fitz]

Heyas FDJ,

All well and good, but flowery MEC resolutions are rarely worth the paper they're printed on.

If the DAL MEC REALLY wants to make up some lost good will (and I call on the NWA MEC to do the same), why don't they publish their last "final offer" with respect to the SLI.

Then each of us can evaluate just who was being unreasonable. Oh, yea, why don't they publish some of those "scope changes" as well?

Nu

All that is well and good too. But why isn't our MEC publishing any of the SLI offers. I want to know exactly what we turned down.

 

[NuGuy]

All that is well and good too. But why isn't our MEC publishing any of the SLI offers. I want to know exactly what we turned down.

Agreed. Lets see what all the hub bub is about.

Oh yea, HEY DELTA GUYS, what is your limit on 51-70 seat RJs right now? Pre-TA?


Nu

 

[filejw]

Not to worry if the DALMEC doesn't help us I'm sure "BOB" will soon as it's a merged airline.LOL

 

[slapstick]

In Hauenstein we trust.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Heyas FDJ,

If the DAL MEC REALLY wants to make up some lost good will (and I call on the NWA MEC to do the same), why don't they publish their last "final offer" with respect to the SLI.

Nu

Howdy Nu:

It has been widely accounted for that the "final offer" was relative seniority. You already know this. Why do you ask again?

It is not prejudicial in any event.

BTW - Does anyone know if LOA19 goes down in flames, would it stop, or significantly impede, a merger?

 

[NuGuy]

Howdy Nu:

It has been widely accounted for that the "final offer" was relative seniority. You already know this. Why do you ask again?

It is not prejudicial in any event.

BTW - Does anyone know if LOA19 goes down in flames, would it stop, or significantly impede, a merger?

Heyas Fins,

No, we don't know this because no one has the exact wording of the offer, and all we have is the word of the brain trust here. Not good enough...lets see the actual language.

Besides, who cares if it's not prejudicial? I mean, if it was such a fair deal and all....

Now, how many of those 70 seaters can you fly under the current langauge?

Nu

 

[Bill Nelson]

It sounds to me like the NWA guys turned down an immediate 18% raise fighting for unreasonable seniority integration and the Delta guys decided this thing was moving forward with or without them so they made a deal with DAL management. Good move from my prospective.

NWA pilots will either get on board or get steam rolled by an arbitrator if they push it that far. Better to get while the getting is good than to act unreasonable (as NWA pilots have a history of doing) and end up like the USAIR guys.

Wake up America! (to quote Earl Pitts)

 

[~~~^~~~]

Now, how many of those 70 seaters can you fly under the current langauge?

Nu

I doubt there ever was any formal language to the SLI discussions, there was no need since there was no agreement. The DAL concept was simple and straight forward, relative seniority.

What is weird is that what your MEC reported is disputed by people with first hand knowledge. They think that your own negotiators were not playing completely straight with your MEC, not that it is any of my business. Just strange....

On your RJ question I think 200, but, the company is going to add all of your's and then there is a 3 RJ to 1 new mainline ratio at DAL (I think - it is late and it will have to be looked up again later - others have found online links to the PWA).

I don't like it either.... hope I'm wrong.

 

[Occam's Razor]

From the Delta MEC resolution AI 08-S09A passed on April 12, 2008:

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED the Delta MEC welcomes the Northwest pilots as partners in the building of the new merged airline and looks forward to working with the Northwest MEC to bring about the rapid completion of a new joint agreement to take effect on the closing of the corporate transaction providing immediate parity in rates of pay and further providing for a rapid completion of a fair and equitable integrated seniority list to take effect on the effective date of the new joint agreement....

Could you please post the actual language of the LOA regarding a "parity trigger"?

I've written enough MEC resolutions to understand this one. "...to bring about..." means "try", not "will".

I hear the words. I'm watching the feet.

 

[JAM-BRO]

So NWA guys wait 2-3 yrs for a pay raise... That is once again, real FAIR, when the new entity enjoys our profits/revenues... Great way to start!!!!

From the Delta MEC resolution AI 08-S09A passed on April 12, 2008:

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED the Delta MEC welcomes the Northwest pilots as partners in the building of the new merged airline and looks forward to working with the Northwest MEC to bring about the rapid completion of a new joint agreement to take effect on the closing of the corporate transaction providing immediate parity in rates of pay and further providing for a rapid completion of a fair and equitable integrated seniority list to take effect on the effective date of the new joint agreement....

 

[Occam's Razor]

So NWA guys wait 2-3 yrs for a pay raise... That is once again, real FAIR, when the new entity enjoys our profits/revenues... Great way to start!!!!

We could have SOC in 4 months. Anti-Trust was a tougher sell to the DoJ. This will be about 66% of the effort.

We could have a List within a month if both sides are willing to either:

1. Hunker-down and get it done.
2. Frame an expedited arbitration process.

All we need to do it is "want to".

Both sides will hunker-down for a week to flesh out options and strategy.

 

[~~~^~~~]

So NWA guys wait 2-3 yrs for a pay raise... That is once again, real FAIR, when the new entity enjoys our profits/revenues... Great way to start!!!!

I hear you.

 

[~~~^~~~]

All we need to do it is "want to".

Both sides will hunker-down for a week to flesh out options and strategy.

Is this a response to the Olive Branch that I heard went out today?

 

[Schwanker]

From the Delta MEC resolution AI 08-S09A passed on April 12, 2008:

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED the Delta MEC welcomes the Northwest pilots as partners in the building of the new merged airline and looks forward to working with the Northwest MEC to bring about the rapid completion of a new joint agreement to take effect on the closing of the corporate transaction providing immediate parity in rates of pay and further providing for a rapid completion of a fair and equitable integrated seniority list to take effect on the effective date of the new joint agreement....

100% BS and lip-service. DALPA has lost all faith with NWA guys. This BS is just a feeble attempt at saving face. Actions speak louder than words, and DALPA actions show them in bed with management in an attempt to screw over another pilot union. In fact, these words could have just as easily been printed by management. Sounds just like them. It will bite them back--guaranteed. Their weak a#$ excuses don't cut it-period.

We'll see how efficient this airline operates in the coming months if the BS doesn't get reversed ASAP. They complained about last summers staffing problem. I think we may be even leaner this summer. Not pretty.

DALPA, NWA pilots aren't your partners. You already F'd that one up! Save your welcomes for our EMT.

Schwanker

 

[~~~^~~~]

I do not understand the NWA gnashing of teeth. (especially after reading all of LOA 19, it isn't great and it is clearly designed as a short term fix to set a floor for a subsequent joint agreement) As you learn more, or as the LOA leaks out, I think you will agree this was much ado about nothing.

But still; how could the DAL MEC represent you to DAL management?

 

[JAM-BRO]

True statement, but is there willingness on BOTH sides?

You would think RA would push hard for this...

We could have SOC in 4 months. Anti-Trust was a tougher sell to the DoJ. This will be about 66% of the effort.

We could have a List within a month if both sides are willing to either:

1. Hunker-down and get it done.
2. Frame an expedited arbitration process.

All we need to do it is "want to".

Both sides will hunker-down for a week to flesh out options and strategy.