Delta pilots - Thanks for raising the bar

[waveflyer]

Gee wave....since YOU thought it was fine to go fly one yourself to further your goals, I guess all I can say is: Your Welcome!

As for the college kids, good...maybe we'll see that pilot shortage that's been prophesied for so long. That should drive compensation way up don't ya think?

Hey No voters at delta-This ^^^^^ is what you're dealing with-
So embedded in a culture of outsourcing he blames me and all of you that took an outsourced job for the problems with outsourcing- not his own vote.
DTW actually believes he did me a favor.

I already had achieved my goals by that time DTW- I took that job for health insurance - which is a goal I guess

 

[Scoot 11]

Hey No voters at delta-This ^^^^^ is what you're dealing with-
So embedded in a culture of outsourcing he blames me and all of you that took an outsourced job for the problems with outsourcing- not his own vote.
DTW actually believes he did me a favor.

I already had achieved my goals by that time DTW- I took that job for health insurance - which is a goal I guess

This is a prime example of a guy who flew one of those outsourced jobs, and and thought it was ok then. He then went out and bought his job at southwest cause he had to buy his job to get hired!

 

[redflyer65]

Scoot, put down the bong buddy.

You outsourced a job, like paying a guy to cut your lawn because it's 'beneath you', then you want to rip on the guy for taking that job? What kind of sense does that make?

Here's some news for you...


YOU OUTSOURCED THE JOB, HE DIDN'T!!

 

[Scoot 11]

Scoot, put down the bong buddy.

You outsourced a job, like paying a guy to cut your lawn because it's 'beneath you', then you want to rip on the guy for taking that job? What kind of sense does that make?

Here's some news for you...


YOU OUTSOURCED THE JOB, HE DIDN'T!!

Redflyer:
Get off wave's knob. He and you both bought your job, because that's all you could do. Wave took it a step further by taking that outsourced job he so despises, which not only makes him a pft troll, but a hypocrite.
hyp·o·crite

   [hip-uh-krit] Show IPA
noun 1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.

2. a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, especially one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.






You, on the other hand, are just a pay for training troll, obsessed with anything Delta.

 

[waveflyer]

Well, there's about 15,000 applicants for that PFT job-
But if that's all you have scooter- I think we all know how strong your argument is.
I've never condoned outsourcing- I simply was getting turned down by airlines (Jblu wouldn't interview me) bc I didn't have "glass time"- I'd flown large transport airplanes, but all steam gauges by luck and had the scarlet F on my shoulder-
I wanted to stay flying and the job was already outsourced- is it hypocritical- IMO somewhat- but not a lot- in fact as much as I did sellout a little- the fact that I flew in that world lends credibility-
Some of the strongest voices I've heard against outsourcing are from those who were from those companies or still there- bc we have had to live with the low pay, crap schedules, and fear of being downsized in the whipsaw market you created by voting the way you do.

Divide & conquer for a 20% raise.

So stay stuck on repeat scoot, just know you're dead wrong and dragging down the profession by all your ridiculous outsourcing.
To my generation and younger- you are the epitome of what's wrong with this profession- but keep thinking southwest is the problem

 

[redflyer65]

Scoot,

So instead of addressing the Delta outsourcing I discuss in the post above, the best you can muster is that Southwest sucks?

Is that all you really have here?

PS, we aren't even talking about Southwest here, we are talking about you ripping on someone for taking a job that YOU outsourced. As a matter of fact you have thousands of guys working at Delta that took the same outsourced jobs!

DALPA outsourcing was the single worst thing that happened to this industry for pilots. Every other CEO (expcept SW amazingly enough) started getting a wet dream when DALPA signed off on smaller jets in 92. The rest is a miserable history.

 

[St. Nic]

Scoot,

So instead of addressing the Delta outsourcing I discuss in the post above, the best you can muster is that Southwest sucks?

Is that all you really have here?

PS, we aren't even talking about Southwest here, we are talking about you ripping on someone for taking a job that YOU outsourced. As a matter of fact you have thousands of guys working at Delta that took the same outsourced jobs!

DALPA outsourcing was the single worst thing that happened to this industry for pilots. Every other CEO (expcept SW amazingly enough) started getting a wet dream when DALPA signed off on smaller jets in 92. The rest is a miserable history.

Agreed!

 

[Scoot 11]

Agreed!

Says the guy making Mesa wages.......

 

[Scoot 11]

Scoot,

So instead of addressing the Delta outsourcing I discuss in the post above, the best you can muster is that Southwest sucks?

No knob flyer, Delta sucks, you guys said so. Not that I really care what some PFT troll has to say.

Is that all you really have here?

Nope, got plenty more.

PS, we aren't even talking about Southwest here, we are talking about you ripping on someone for taking a job that YOU outsourced. As a matter of fact you have thousands of guys working at Delta that took the same outsourced jobs!

No sparky, we're talking about hypocrisy at its finest. Your man wave comes up with all kinds of excuses to accept a job he loathes so much, and can't just admit hypocrisy. I don't hear anyone besides you and your boyfriend yelling about outsourcing jobs they took.

DALPA outsourcing was the single worst thing that happened to this industry for pilots. Every other CEO (expcept SW amazingly enough) started getting a wet dream when DALPA signed off on smaller jets in 92. The rest is a miserable history.

Amazingly SWAPA.....Listen to yourself. Amazingly not every airline has pft, and didn't buy off on that. Then comes 9/11 and a host of bankruptcies that SWAPA amazingly had the bar lowered to. Add that on to age 65 which you ****************************** bags championed, and.....Awesome! You love birds are now f/o's for the next 25 years. If you're lucky, you might get to swing gear for a few select Air Tran pilots you didn't ******************** over in your merger of equal airlines......
Have a great day, and do try to keep up with your rhetoric. I see you've got 1 USAPA clown on his knees begging for some of what you give wave....

 

[waveflyer]

Classy

 

[redflyer65]

Kinda what I thought.

But in the end, he made my point for me.

 

[xjhawk]

okay idiots, and you know who you are. The vast majority of pilots flying "outsourced jobs" do not want to fly where we are. It is not our fault this crap of an industry is the way it is. When I made my plans, served on Active duty (Army) for 7 years to get the GI bill and save for flying, then went to school-the plan was to flight instruct-work at a regional for a couple/three/four years and then go to a National or Major airline. I have been stuck here for 9 years now and now I have to hear from IDIOTS that I am the problem for taking your jobs. Get a life you idiots. Why don't you go to your precious Flight managers and HR idiots who are coming up with plans to hire low time **************************************** right out of flight schools and bypass those of us with experience. Prime example is Delta who cancelled the flow for hundreds of Mesaba guys because they want to "select better candidates to be Delta pilots". How idiotic, we fly planes painted in Delta colors, Delta Passengers and are not allowed to say...."welcome aboard this flight operated by.....". All so they can make deals with flight schools to hire low time people!

If these unions (alpa and any other pilot group who has "outsourced flying") had any honor or sense of unity or fairness (but instead they are self serving mainly to the senior folk) they would grab those jobs back along with the pilots. I am just saying.....

 

[waveflyer]

So scoot-
Any chance we can make a wager on the crj-1000?
My bet is you have them outsourced before 2020

 

[Scoot 11]

So scoot-
Any chance we can make a wager on the crj-1000?
My bet is you have them outsourced before 2020

My wager is you don't find the DL pilot who nailed your wife to make you so bitter!

 

[waveflyer]

No wife man- and the girls I date are free to do whatever- bc so am I.
But good try.
Nope- the selling out is enough to justify my thoughts on delta.

So you don't think you guys will boil the frog and sell out 1000's by 2020??
Probably by 2017 or 2018-
But I'm sure PCL will come to your rescue and lay into me :
"they aren't 1000's!!! Well, they are, but they're scope limited to 85 seats! Mainline CAN'T fly 85 seats!"

 

[Scoot 11]

Ok, then it was your sister.I'm sure the men in your life are fine with what you do:blush:
No matter what happens, with your infatuation with Delta, I'm sure you'll be right along to tell the world just how smart you are, and how ********************ed up we are.

 

[waveflyer]

Wrong again
Not a hater- a career at delta is one of the best passenger flying careers in the world -
I just think this generation of DALPA retirees has failed in their leadership role from 1992- present.
Imagine that- baby boomers making entitled, short sighted, selfish decisions that ultimately hurt everyone including them.
Say it isn't so....

 

[waveflyer]

And as for the homophobic slam-
Don't ask, don't care. It's not a slam to me, -people are who they are and I want them to be free and comfortable with that- I just happen to be straight- so try again on that one too.
Maybe if you head down to the alma mater in Norman, some of my frat brothers might think its funny...
But probably not- generation thing, you know.

 

[DTW320]

Hey No voters at delta-This ^^^^^ is what you're dealing with-
So embedded in a culture of outsourcing he blames me and all of you that took an outsourced job for the problems with outsourcing- not his own vote.
DTW actually believes he did me a favor.

I already had achieved my goals by that time DTW- I took that job for health insurance - which is a goal I guess

Wave. I know that you seem to have a BIG problem following a logical argument, but let me remind you. YOU "thanked" dalpa for being the first to outsource jets and then posited (with nothing to back it up btw) that college kids are not following us into this career(guess you didn't want to get into the positive Economics 101 implications of that if it's true) Since you "thanked" me for that and since you availed yourself to a job at an "outsourced" company(the grand slam of hypocrisy), I logically said "You're Welcome". Get it?

I wasn't at delta in 92. I was flying for a regional. The majors wouldn't hire me with 1500 hours, so I flew for a regional, got a few thousand PIC and got hired. Outsourced, feed,...whatever. It worked like a charm for me as a stepping stone to the majors....all after 1992...not sure how..guess I (and thousands of others) were just "lucky" since 1992 is when the root of all evil began.

Delta now has block hour ratios with DCI that guarantee a higher % of system flying will be mainline. Now, and even more so with any future growth. Name another pilot group that has turned the tide on regional growth as a % of their company's system flying. Delta will hire as a direct result of that ratio. To those who are doing exactly what most of us (including wavey) did to get here: You're Welcome! It's really simple. Why a smart guy such as you doesn't get it is a mystery. Unless......

 

[redflyer65]

I fail to see the hipocrisy when someone takes an outsourced job. He didn't make the decision to outsource the job in the first place...DALPA did.

You say 'Name another group that turned the tide on regional growth' when you guys created this from the beginning? Wow. Now the pressure is squarely on AMR and UCAL for larger RJs.

DTW,

This is agreement is a ruse for even larger RJs down the road. As Wave stated, the CRJ 1000 is on the way when Delta throws out a combo....The 900s aren't economical and here's a payraise. I hope I'm wrong, but it doesn't look good. This agreement got you closer to larger RJs, plain and simple. Delta wanted out of the 50s, you just gave them a huge monetary gift to drop them....which they were going to do anyway! Leverage lost.

 

[waveflyer]

Dtw- I think you have my career timeline a bit skewed-
I too followed the career path- The difference is that while I was hired by my legacy in early 2000 after a 5 year turboprop gig and 1 year in transport charter, I was furloughed and my job replaced by large RJs. Within 8 months my family and I began our business, and after 18months cobra running out, and only expensive alternatives available, I needed insurance, a steady paycheck, and wanted to get back flying- I got myself current scrapping up odd flying jobs, and was lucky to get a good RJ job. Many of my peers with the scarlet F got turned down as those who were previously shunned by majors found themselves interviewing at regionals and taking out their venom on pilots who had nothing to do with their experience at the majors-
But this has little to do with my career as I've landed on my feet and don't need a flying income anymore (knock on wood, as things are volatile). I just simply disagree with the combination of outsourcing and seniority. The first subverts the latter.
The difference between 1992 and 2006 is that it was "feed" back then. And still mostly turboprops- the jets were a small scope threat in the eyes of most pilots. The mission of -900's isn't feed from rural towns- its supplemental on mainline routes. It's too big an airplane to do anything but.
The point of bringing up 1992, is that it should teach us how strategic mgmt is in the long term. It was feed in 1992- less than 15 years later, over 50% of domestic legacy departures were outsourced RJs.
50%+
That's an amazing number.
They laid the foundation- allowed us to get used to the idea of outsourcing and moved forward in their plan to employ less and less major airline pilots and get the job done by pilots chasing the carrot.

As for the next generation- would you recommend this career?
If you would, I think you're living in the past and need to update yourself on the economics.

 

[DTW320]

Nice job dodging the fact that this TA reduces DCI flying. As a % of system flying and as a number of airplanes. As has been said here before by many, not a perfect all at once solution, just like the non-immediate elimination of b-scale at NWA in the 1998 contract, but a step in the right direction. Re-read the first sentence. This TA causes a 25% reduction in DCI airframes and for the first time tied DCI flying to mainline by a fixed ratio. Mainline flying reduced? So must DCI (not required before). Mainline increases? So can DCI in accordance with the ratio BUT only until they hit the hard cap (no cap before). All the stuff you complain about regarding % of outsourcing is REDUCED in this TA. Like I said...It's really simple. And again, since you didn't answer, who else has turned the outsourcing tide? Apparently redflyer thinks that doesn't matter since long retired DAL pilots "started" this in 92. Brilliant logic there red...don't try to put out the fire in your back yard, because it was a relative who started the BBQ grill in the first place. That'll show'em. Just...Brilliant!

And the best you clowns can come up with is: "Well, umm, uhh...you guys will probably give relief on those caps at some undetermined point in the future". Sorry, but you're gonna have to come up with something better than that.

 

[DTW320]

I fail to see the hipocrisy when someone takes an outsourced job. He didn't make the decision to outsource the job in the first place...DALPA did.

You say 'Name another group that turned the tide on regional growth' when you guys created this from the beginning? Wow. Now the pressure is squarely on AMR and UCAL for larger RJs.

DTW,

This is agreement is a ruse for even larger RJs down the road. As Wave stated, the CRJ 1000 is on the way when Delta throws out a combo....The 900s aren't economical and here's a payraise. I hope I'm wrong, but it doesn't look good. This agreement got you closer to larger RJs, plain and simple. Delta wanted out of the 50s, you just gave them a huge monetary gift to drop them....which they were going to do anyway! Leverage lost.

I'll talk s-l-o-w for you so maybe you can get it. Taking an outsourced job is not hypocritical. Taking and outsourced job to further your personal goals/needs and THEN condemning outsourcing IS extremely hypocritical. YOU mentioned the example of hiring someone to mow your lawn becuase it's "beneath" you then ripping them for taking the job. You conveniently forgot to mention the part about the lawn guy bitching and moaning every minute he's there that it's wrong for the job to have been outsourced. If it's such an offensive situation, WHY ARE YOU HERE MOWING THE YARD YOU HYPOCRITE???

I assume you know that Delta opened with 86 seat RJ's and maintained that position for a long time during negotiations. And I'm sorry that your cerebral cortex is malfunctioning....no matter who, what , or why the outsourcing came to be in the past, you apparently are suggesting that the better course of action would be to NOT reverse the tide. Simply amazing that you are allowed in a cockpit with that level of reasoning ability. So, Yes.....please name another pilot group that has turned the tide on regional flying to the degree that this TA does. Thanks

 

[DTW320]

No wife man- and the girls I date are free to do whatever- bc so am I.

The "girls you date". Waaaahahahahahahaha!!! That's is a GOOD one flame!

I'd LOVE to see the girls who are OK with a "date" that consists of trolling aviation internet message boards. Hopefully you at least order in some good food and wine to have by the PC. Since ANY post directed at you gets answered by you within a few minutes, it seems to be a safe bet that you're not spending a lot of time out on the town with the ladies.

Take care. See ya next time I don't have ANYTHING else to do for a few minutes.

 

[redflyer65]

DTW,

I'll explain it to you a little slower this time...

You outsource a job (mowing the lawn).

A guy takes it, for whatever reason.

The guy mowing the lawn makes his way up the food chain and sees future outsourcing for his co-workers and those around him as bad. You know, dragging down the actual industry.

But your blaming him for trying to make the game better? That is ZERO hipocrisy dude. He's trying to be apart of the solution, meanwhile your okay with the continued outsourcing!!!

 

[redflyer65]

So, Yes.....please name another pilot group that has turned the tide on regional flying to the degree that this TA does. Thanks

Southwest.

Review what happened after SW bought Airtran with the Skywest MKE feed.

Zero RJs, Zero Props. No matter what the size. DALPA, not so much.

 

[FDJ2]

I fail to see the hipocrisy when someone takes an outsourced job. He didn't make the decision to outsource the job in the first place...DALPA did.

You say 'Name another group that turned the tide on regional growth' when you guys created this from the beginning? Wow. Now the pressure is squarely on AMR and UCAL for larger RJs.

DTW,

This is agreement is a ruse for even larger RJs down the road. As Wave stated, the CRJ 1000 is on the way when Delta throws out a combo....The 900s aren't economical and here's a payraise. I hope I'm wrong, but it doesn't look good. This agreement got you closer to larger RJs, plain and simple. Delta wanted out of the 50s, you just gave them a huge monetary gift to drop them....which they were going to do anyway! Leverage lost.

This agreement reduced the maximum number of 76-seat jets DAL could outsource from 255 down to 223.

The CRJ900 has been authorized at DCI since 2006. Since that time the Delta pilots have negotiated a JCBA and a new PWA and in neither agreement has the number of seats been increased.

Your suggestion that this agreement is a stepping stone to larger RJs, like the CRJ1000, is not at all supported by the facts.

 

[redflyer65]

This agreement reduced the maximum number of 76-seat jets DAL could outsource from 255 down to 223.

The CRJ900 has been authorized at DCI since 2006. Since that time the Delta pilots have negotiated a JCBA and a new PWA and in neither agreement has the number of seats been increased.

Your suggestion that this agreement is a stepping stone to larger RJs, like the CRJ1000, is not at all supported by the facts.

The next agreement WILL bring larger RJs. They have just been slowly turning the heat up on you guys. And you haven't even noticed. Everything is good right?

Just wait.

 

[waveflyer]

Fdj- do you really think that delta would have traded in every 70 seater they have for a -900?
You do know the 70 performs much better than the 90 and goes into mountain towns like Jackson?
It's unlikely financially they'd have traded in any 70 seaters, even more unlikely bc they need the 70 for performance and market size.
The battle over RJs is in large RJs. They're newer without the overhauls the 59's need. They're more efficient- with this fuel 70& up-
So the question is how many 70's AND 90's do you have now?
And why when there is unprecedented pressure on 50 seaters would you trade MORE -900's for less 50's??

That's like a dealership offering $50,000 for the Audi, and then countering with $60k

Way to negotiate for what your management wants.

 

[waveflyer]

And DTW- don't be jealous of my social life- contrary to your belief - I don't live on this site- check it a few times a day when I'm working the business- but good luck with that line-