Delta Pilots Begin Vote

[regionalcap]

I think there is too much talk about this LOA. Like it or not, it will probably pass. Let's focus on getting a good joint contract. Both sides need to put aside their differences and work on getting a solid contract. I'd gladly drink a :beer: with any NWA guy. Any idea when they will start negotiating?

 

[another cfii]

I'm pretty junior too... The furlough protection is just a bit prettier sounding garbage than what is already in there- and include my butt in there. So... blah blah.

Scope... it's the same thing as is currently had at both carriers- the only exception had to be made, ironically, for the NWA ERJ-175s.

Pay- well, it's something to hold us over if it becomes a long and drawn out thing. It's a bit better than our current contractual raises and we had dang well have a joint contract before then.

Equity- I can sell it the moment I get it... that is all that I care about, although it does tick me off how much more the senior guys are getting.


So what is the theme here? Money. The other stuff isn't any worse than the current contract... and it has some protections to make sure that our flying is protected if we end up having a joint operation while still under two different contracts.

I missed the roadshow, can anybody explain how the equity is gonna be divided among the ranks? I figure if it's evenly spread, it's about $25k for each of us.

 

[regionalcap]

I missed the roadshow, can anybody explain how the equity is gonna be divided among the ranks? I figure if it's evenly spread, it's about $25k for each of us.

The most senior guy will get 1.4 times what the most junior guy gets. It should be more than your figure. I read a news clip on yahoo yesterday that estimated a market cap of 15 billion (previously 17.7 billion). This would give the senior guy about 80,000 and the junior guy about 55,000. Roughly.

 

[General Lee]

The merger was announced April 14th. Anybody hired at Delta after that date will probably end up junior to every single NWA pilot if the lists actually end up getting integrated. This is a precedent from previous mergers. Usually the arbitrator doesn't even consider anyone hired after the merger date. This is just my opinion. NWA's last class was the first week of April.

I don't think it will happen like that. It will probably be merged after we actually merge the companies, by the end of the year possibly. If it takes months for you to agree to common sense, then you will be lower on the totem pole. I guess Anderson could say out loud "I want to merge with UPS by the year 2020.....". Would an arbitrator take that into account too? (the day he stated his intention to merge)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[nwaredtail]

I don't think it will happen like that. It will probably be merged after we actually merge the companies, by the end of the year possibly. If it takes months for you to agree to common sense, then you will be lower on the totem pole. I guess Anderson could say out loud "I want to merge with UPS by the year 2020.....". Would an arbitrator take that into account too? (the day he stated his intention to merge)


Bye Bye--General Lee

wow, another totally unrealistic, uneducated, untrue response from the General. Shocking. I guess every arbitration that has ever occurred will have no relevance on what happens at DAL/NWA

 

[General Lee]

wow, another totally unrealistic, uneducated, untrue response from the General. Shocking. I guess every arbitration that has ever occurred will have no relevance on what happens at DAL/NWA

How did Nicalau rule? Relative seniority. The top 500 guys at USAir did get the top spots, but they were the only ones flying INTL routes on widebodies. Well, we both have widebodies, and while you have 14 744s and some very old 742s, we have more widebodies total, and our 777 pays more than your 744 anyway. Oh wait, you have some orders on a plane that hasn't even flown yet.....We also have orders, on 777s which are bigger. Has any arbitration on a merger ever resulted in straight DOH? Nope. Guess what? Most likely it will be relative seniority, and I will be happy. (I am at about the 50% point) We also have more widebodies, better pay, we are acquiring you, and a new contract. It doesn't look great for you guys. Sorry. But hey, you say I AM THE ONE who is unrealistic and uneducated. Riiiight. Time for you to keep saying that and then look at yourself in the mirror.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[aircowboy]

The General would love relative seniority as it would benefit all of the Delta guys by allowing them to take advantage of all of our upcoming retirements. Keep dreaming General.

 

[General Lee]

The General would love relative seniority as it would benefit all of the Delta guys by allowing them to take advantage of all of our upcoming retirements. Keep dreaming General.

What is great is how every NWA guy loves to say that they will all leave at age 60 too. Riiiiight. The reason we lost 2000 senior pilots is because they left for their pension. At the same time, we kept most of our work rules. How did NWA do? You kept your frozen pension, and lost most of your rules. So, we merge, you get our rules, and we DON'T get your pension. Seem fair yet? Also, if you get our rules concerning ultra long haul flying, your current rule about 1 Captain flying with 3 FOs will go to 2 Captains and 2 FOs (our rules)----and look at all of the INSTANT upgrades---probably all Ex Republic guys. Wow, that will be fun on the 744----the Repulic guy is probably senior to the NWA Captain anyway.(but hasn't been allowed to bid the 744 thanks to lack of slots----until now....) Hillarity to ensue.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FBN0223]

delete

 

[Superpilot92]

Oh sweet another one of "those" threads uke:

 

[FBN0223]

You're right!!! Fell into the trap of all the merger(we got acquired) crap. Our guys will get this figured out soon enough and GL can buy the first round or two.....

 

[flyboy006]

?

The merger was announced April 14th. Anybody hired at Delta after that date will probably end up junior to every single NWA pilot if the lists actually end up getting integrated. This is a precedent from previous mergers. Usually the arbitrator doesn't even consider anyone hired after the merger date. This is just my opinion. NWA's last class was the first week of April.

At face value, I guess it makes sense that if you were not on property prior to when it was announced, you wouldnt be part of the whole mix up and that you would end up on the bottom.. But what do I know about this stuff... I am a newbee myself...who knows how this all works..

 

[Fly4hire]

There is nothing unreasonable about straight relative seniority. It is an extremely viable position, unless you are a NWA pilot who thinks that you should get some kind of credit for possible retirements, a substandard contract from several different vantage points, and "premium widebody" flying which pays the same as 757 domestic. Why does looking at past mergers give me an "ego"?

I've now seen your relative/dynamic seniority proposals in about 5 different variation - they all give a disproportional windfall -not just your 20% size difference - in all scenarios going forward 5, 10, 15 yrs. Yeah I know you guys like the day 2 snapshot, but that's the only one that looks even remotely, and even then not much, reasonable.

Thanks for unifying the NWA pilot group though.

 

[zonker]

Then you obviously dont have the LOA paperwork with the real truth...so...GO AWAY.

:laugh:
Is it possible that I might know someone who does have it? And that they sent me a copy?

 

[DTW320]

...and how many times have you used those idiotic words.."..you guys are throwing us under the bus!!"??

Ummm...Zero? Use the search feature. Works great with vBulletin. Thanks for playing!

 

[dbrownie]

So, are we going to hire another 1000 pilots at Delta before you guys get your act together and agree to relative seniority (either through your own ability or the likely award by an arbitrator)? Great. My relative seniority is really shooting straight up.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General;

So the future 1000 new hire pilot slots would be

senior to us? Is this what happened with Pan Am?

Just asking, now I am confused.

If this is the case it does not seem reasonable to

me......

DB

 

[737 Pylt]

Oh sweet another one of "those" threads uke:

Exactly.....What is it that Occam said, something about a playground having more maturity than some of these threads!?!

737

 

[General Lee]

General;

So the future 1000 new hire pilot slots would be

senior to us? Is this what happened with Pan Am?

Just asking, now I am confused.

If this is the case it does not seem reasonable to

me......

DB

It may or may not work that way. If there isn't seniority integration until the actual transaction takes place later this year, then the arbitrator may look at that as a place to start. I have not seen anything stating that the day we announced our intention of a merger would be "the day" to set our integration tables to. If you read something like that, then I would like to see it. We are still growing this year, and I think we will have some more classes in NOV or DEC, so there still is a chance of more people flowing in. When it comes to crunch time, I bet both of our MECs will be pushing for that. The bottom USAir guy had 17 years when they went to arbitration, and he ended up 2 from the bottom at their integration. As far as Pan Am, well, we acquired some of their A310s and 727s. Some of the pilots flying those planes came on over, and had to stay on them seat locked for a certain time. They were blended into the seniority list, but not DOH. I think this case of ours is a lot different.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JAM-BRO]

GEN

16 747-400s, not 14. Rumor is we might get 4 or 5 more at a steal because Boeing owes NWA money for the 787 delays....

How did Nicalau rule? Relative seniority. The top 500 guys at USAir did get the top spots, but they were the only ones flying INTL routes on widebodies. Well, we both have widebodies, and while you have 14 744s and some very old 742s, we have more widebodies total, and our 777 pays more than your 744 anyway. Oh wait, you have some orders on a plane that hasn't even flown yet.....We also have orders, on 777s which are bigger. Has any arbitration on a merger ever resulted in straight DOH? Nope. Guess what? Most likely it will be relative seniority, and I will be happy. (I am at about the 50% point) We also have more widebodies, better pay, we are acquiring you, and a new contract. It doesn't look great for you guys. Sorry. But hey, you say I AM THE ONE who is unrealistic and uneducated. Riiiight. Time for you to keep saying that and then look at yourself in the mirror.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[skystud25]

At face value, I guess it makes sense that if you were not on property prior to when it was announced, you wouldnt be part of the whole mix up and that you would end up on the bottom.. But what do I know about this stuff... I am a newbee myself...who knows how this all works..

word from the Delta MEC from a newbie who just went through orientation and met with them for the afternoon was that all classes up through and including the May 5 class would be treated as on property employees and would be treated the same as the guys and gals hired last year when they started hiring again. This policy wasn't a slam dunk supposedly, there were some who wanted to cut off the last few classes but they stressed to the newbies that there were people in the MEC fighting for them even before they were on property to include them in the SLI, current contract, LOA 19 if it ever becomes policy, etc. I'm no expert but that's the info I was given.