Delta Pilots Begin Vote

[aircowboy]

Ford and Harrison will be toasting this victory. Foolish that is all I can say.

 

[aircowboy]

It you really believe this is the "floor" and management will negotiate something better you need to change the brand you are smoking. By voting yes you are saying" this is plenty till 2012."

 

[JohnQ]

It you really believe this is the "floor" and management will negotiate something better you need to change the brand you are smoking.

This is indeed the floor--it is absolutely the minimum the DAL pilots will get! Again, it is insurance against a long drawn-out scenario that would preclude any contractual gains. I'm not sure how you can't see that--it is right in front of your face.

By voting yes you are saying "this is plenty till 2012."

Using your logic, voting it down would be saying "we actually want far LESS than what you were offering with LOA 19."

Hard to see how that is a good thing.

And in the midst of $120/bbl oil and several recent BKs and liquidations in our industry, if you honestly think we could shoot this down and get even more in the near future...well someone needs to check the brand of puff, but I don't think it is me!

We CAN get more...but only with a JOINT contract; but this LOA will be the basis from which we negotiate it. If we negotiate a joint contract from the basis of our existing contracts as they are currently written, it will NOT be as good as it will eventually be with LOA 19 as the floor. It is the efficiencies of a combined pilot group that will enable the economic pie to get even larger, thus the newer joint contract more lucrative for all of us than LOA 19 ever could be just for the DAL guys.

Remember, LOA 19 doesn't take effect until the DCC (Date of Corporate Closing) and we don't want it to take effect at all! The joint contract will (hopefully) supersede it.

I truly don't see us shooting down LOA 19 so as to get another standalone DAL-only LOA that is even more lucrative--isn't going to happen.

And in any case, I thought some of the sentiment was that we should DECLINE this LOA so as to earn less?...somehow that is seen as a good thing. (?)

 

[zonker]

Looks like we have management plants cheerleading this deal.

The floor is where your careers are going after you allow 255 70 seaters on the property.

 

[aircowboy]

You are allowing management to divide us from the start. You are playing right along with their game.

 

[JohnQ]

You are allowing management to divide us from the start. You are playing right along with their game.

No we are not. You need to take a step back. When you are looking at all this two years from now, with your massively improved contract and pay rates (and improved for me as well) I think you will realize that the whole deal was very cleverly done.

Or you can be like this guy...recently I flew with a guy who told me a story about a former Western guy. This guy was the #1 guy on the MD-11 out of ATL, and in the previous year, with lots of overtime, had made nearly $500,000! He was going to make nearly $300,000 a year in retirement!

And he bitched every second of a 3-day 27 hour trip to Narita about how "ALPA screwed me in the merger."

At some point, if you want to believe something bad enough (like aforementioned M11 captain), you will, no matter how firmly the facts are beating you upside the head.

 

[PuffDriver]

Really? And what makes you the authority, your apparent ego? Moak walked out, now he will have to lower the expectations of the group in order to present a reasonable offer to an arbitrator. These are not my words and concepts mind you. Think "big dogs".

I don't think you know nearly as much as you think you do. You have no idea what an arbitrator will rule. NWA is your only hope of weathering the upcoming storm. Better start sweet talking us bubba.

There is nothing unreasonable about straight relative seniority. It is an extremely viable position, unless you are a NWA pilot who thinks that you should get some kind of credit for possible retirements, a substandard contract from several different vantage points, and "premium widebody" flying which pays the same as 757 domestic. Why does looking at past mergers give me an "ego"?

As far as NWA "saving" us, puulleeaassee. A look at the last quarter shows the trend. It will get worse with time. Neither carrier will be out of BK before long. Delta is better positioned for the downturn, as we have a larger international presence. None of it matters. The merger IS going to happen. Delta pilots might be able to stop it, NWA pilots cannot stop it. My suggestion is to get onboard with a reasonable SLI or get cracking with your self doom.

 

[PuffDriver]

Looks like we have management plants cheerleading this deal.

The floor is where your careers are going after you allow 255 70 seaters on the property.

I guess when you really have no excuse as to your MECs behavior, we suddenly have to resort to the "management plant" theory.

The purpose of the LOA is simple, to allow the merger to go forward. Also, it provides insurance that the NWA pilot group decides to pull little stunts to start getting in the way of the merger, delay tactics, going on vacation again, not showing up prepared again, etc. If they choose this course, it allows the Delta pilots increases in their compensation package. Hopefully, it will never be used.

 

[slapstick]

ALPA rep mentioned another purpose of the LOA is to keep Delta pilots in Delta-painted planes in the near term (should the SLI get drawn out). It would prevent them from using less-paid NWA guys to fly our 757's, for example. Is it true that US Airways shifted the AWA airbuses over to be flown by East guys because they have cheaper rates?

 

[zonker]

I guess when you really have no excuse as to your MECs behavior, we suddenly have to resort to the "management plant" theory.

The purpose of the LOA is simple, to allow the merger to go forward. Also, it provides insurance that the NWA pilot group decides to pull little stunts to start getting in the way of the merger, delay tactics, going on vacation again, not showing up prepared again, etc. If they choose this course, it allows the Delta pilots increases in their compensation package. Hopefully, it will never be used.

I don't work for NWA.

But any idiot who signs an LOA giving away that much flying to the lowest bidder deserves exactly what they're going to get. Walking papers in five years.

 

[aircowboy]

Those "substandard rates" were agreed to to save the pensions. What kind of pension do you have puffdaddy? Oh wait you dont.

 

[Occam's Razor]

It appears the "You're a poopy-head!" immaturity has spread to this thread too.

Think I'll go hang out at a Pre-School playground. I could use the elevated discourse.

 

[JAM-BRO]

Do you think having 1000 phantom pilots, who haven't been hired yet by DAL, is reasonable?

Moak walked out because he had made a resonable offer, and it was declined.

 

[General Lee]

Do you think having 1000 phantom pilots, who haven't been hired yet by DAL, is reasonable?

So, are we going to hire another 1000 pilots at Delta before you guys get your act together and agree to relative seniority (either through your own ability or the likely award by an arbitrator)? Great. My relative seniority is really shooting straight up.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Really? And what makes you the authority, your apparent ego? Moak walked out, now he will have to lower the expectations of the group in order to present a reasonable offer to an arbitrator. These are not my words and concepts mind you. Think "big dogs".

I don't think you know nearly as much as you think you do. You have no idea what an arbitrator will rule. NWA is your only hope of weathering the upcoming storm. Better start sweet talking us bubba.

This really is laughable. Your entitlement issues mirror the Easties of USAir. Wow.


Bye Bye--General Lee