Delta Pilots Begin Vote

[dbrownie]

I got this off a union web site.....

I have not heard how Delta guys feel about this. If

it was me the raise would be nice but a short term

gain with the potential for years of bad blood would

not be worth it (in my opinion). Mgt would love to

get "help" from the pilots. I have seen this before

as most of you have.


It really feels like

a slap in the face to me. Granted I am a NWA

guy I look at this from a different light.



Personally, I look forward to not

flying for Nwa mgt.

DB



Delta Pilots Begin Vote On Contract Easing Northwest Deal - AP
For management, these contract negotiations would mean more flexibility in
terms of the potential merger with Northwest Airlines.
May 1, 2008

ATLANTA (AP) -- Delta pilots are voting on changes to their contract that
would give them pay raises, an equity stake and other benefits, but would
give management more leeway as part of a proposed combination with Northwest
Airlines.

Voting starts Thursday and runs through May 14th.

The contract would cover 7,403 pilots at Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines.
Northwest's (NWA, Fortune 500) 5,000 pilots are not part of the agreement.

Delta (DAL, Fortune 500) has extended its existing collective bargaining
agreement with pilots through the end of 2012. The revised contract provides
the Delta pilots a 3.5% equity stake in the new company and other
enhancements.

In return, Delta pilots would allow the company to place the Delta code and
brand on Northwest flights and permit the company to retain Northwest's
large stake in Midwest Airlines, while maintaining their separate
operational status.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Yep, I would venture to guess that it will pass by a good margin. Most feel that given the environment that we are in, it is something. Not much but a start.
Some do not feel this way, but I get the impression that it is the minority. I could be wrong, but some of the "No" became undecided after the road shows.

 

[dbrownie]

Yep, I would venture to guess that it will pass by a good margin. Most feel that given the environment that we are in, it is something. Not much but a start.
Some do not feel this way, but I get the impression that it is the minority. I could be wrong, but some of the "No" became undecided after the road shows.

Do you think the bump in pay is the selling point?

Bla, Bla, Bla, raise, bla, bla....?

That is understandable at least.

DB

 

[Max Powers]

I think they are "thinking" well this thing is going through with or without a "yes" vote so might as well get a few bucks from it and try to smooth out some bumpy spots. NWA pilots are at their pinnacle (excuse the pun) in regard to renegotiation leverage I would advise to settle in some way shape or form or get really bent over......

I'm just an outside observer so don't shoot me.

 

[nwaredtail]

It will easily pass. Think about it. Why would Moak want to separate the contract from the SLI? Pass the now lower contract improvements thanks to Moak walking out and then when the SLI comes out that is way worse than he promised, the merger committee can pass it without much trouble.

Well played Richard!!!

 

[PuffDriver]

It will easily pass. Think about it. Why would Moak want to separate the contract from the SLI? Pass the now lower contract improvements thanks to Moak walking out and then when the SLI comes out that is way worse than he promised, the merger committee can pass it without much trouble.

Well played Richard!!!

Not really. First, i voted yes, and i hope that it never comes to fruition.

Next, this is merely just a step in the process. it protects us from an unreasonable NWA group who have this history of overplaying their hand. A joint contract is going to be the next step. That has been agreed upon. I hope we knock it out of the park. If one side or another decides that it is going to play stalemate, we get a token.

Finally, you seem to have the confidence that the SLI is going to work out "in your favor". It IS genius to have the joint contract take care of initially, because then it won't turn into an AWA/USAir fiasco where the combination gets held hostage because one group does not like the looks of the list.

What is being set up here is just the opposite of what you say. You are misinterpreting the facts--spinning if you will. You are setting yourself up for a fall.

 

[nwaredtail]

Not really. First, i voted yes, and i hope that it never comes to fruition.

Next, this is merely just a step in the process. it protects us from an unreasonable NWA group who have this history of overplaying their hand. A joint contract is going to be the next step. That has been agreed upon. I hope we knock it out of the park. If one side or another decides that it is going to play stalemate, we get a token.

Finally, you seem to have the confidence that the SLI is going to work out "in your favor". It IS genius to have the joint contract take care of initially, because then it won't turn into an AWA/USAir fiasco where the combination gets held hostage because one group does not like the looks of the list.

What is being set up here is just the opposite of what you say. You are misinterpreting the facts--spinning if you will. You are setting yourself up for a fall.

Really? And what makes you the authority, your apparent ego? Moak walked out, now he will have to lower the expectations of the group in order to present a reasonable offer to an arbitrator. These are not my words and concepts mind you. Think "big dogs".

I don't think you know nearly as much as you think you do. You have no idea what an arbitrator will rule. NWA is your only hope of weathering the upcoming storm. Better start sweet talking us bubba.

 

[dbrownie]

Next, this is merely just a step in the process. it protects us from an unreasonable NWA group who have this history of overplaying their hand.

Driver;

How does this protect you from a nwa group? Mgt

will attemt to "bring you onboard" with some extra

pay/equity. They might just as quickly turn on you.

I have seen this happen by R. Anderson!

Can't blame you for taking any extra cash where

you can, I am just tying to pay the bills!

Please don't lump us all under a "group" I am

very suspect of our union leadership looking out for

their own interests, you also

should be of yours.....

DB

 

[dbrownie]

You have no idea what an arbitrator will rule. NWA is your only hope of weathering the upcoming storm. Better start sweet talking us bubba.

redtail;

Neither do we.... The Delta pilots are not our

enemy. They will be our co-workers very soon.

Mgt is trying to stir this up and get us focusing on

hating each other instead of them.

This is a classic mgt tactic!!!!!

Remember Anderson doing this at nwa? I do.

We would be just as leary and concerned if we

had the tables turned.

DB

 

[ironspud]

Didn't G Lee say he was going to vote against it?

 

[aircowboy]

If any of you Delta guys vote yes in this you are playing right into Ford and Harrisons Game. Your VP of HR was the founder of the greatest union busting firm in the country. Dont underestimate these SOBs. This LOA is about divide and conquer. Dont be fools please. Vote NO! We are much stronger standing shoulder to shoulder.

 

[aircowboy]

You are locking in an agreement that will last four more years and barely keep up with inflation. Think about it.... You are undercutting Alaska, Continental, and American who are all trying to negotiate pre BK pay. If you play into managements hands on this thing then dont expect anything to change until at least 2012.

 

[JohnQ]

If any of you Delta guys vote yes in this you are playing right into Ford and Harrisons Game. Your VP of HR was the founder of the greatest union busting firm in the country. Dont underestimate these SOBs. This LOA is about divide and conquer. Dont be fools please. Vote NO! We are much stronger standing shoulder to shoulder.

You should accept the fact that this agreement will pass at least 75/25 (perhaps higher) and it SHOULD.

LOA 19 is strictly insurance for the DAL pilots against the lunacy happening over at USAir. If the NWA guys want to drag out the whole merger/joint contract/SLI scenario for years, then we are assured of getting something, unlike the two groups over at LCC who are getting NOTHING.

We do NOT want LOA 19 to take effect, because if it does not, then that will mean we have a joint contract that applies to the entire combined group and is more lucrative than LOA 19 is to begin with.

We do not WANT the NWA guys to be paid one cent less than us...but right now you have your own contract, we have ours. Should we actually tell management "sure you can pay us less than even you are willing to pay, all so we can be paid as little as the NWA guys are now"?

Let me ask you this. Do you expect us to actually take a pay CUT so as to "be the same?" I don't think so.

The LOA is NOT about "divide and conquer." It IS about getting contractual improvements--which the NWA guys will get soon enough, and preferably at the same time as the DAL guys!--in the midst of about the worst possible airline economic environment.

LOA 19 will be the floor from which a joint contract is negotiated. If we shoot it down (which we won't) you actually would see that as a good thing? It is good that pilots have to negotiate from a much disadvantaged economic starting point? I don't get it.

The only thing the NWA pilots should be upset about is that LOA 19 wasn't even richer--that would have raised the floor from which we negotiate the joint contract even more.

 

[slapstick]

blame management? shouldn't you also blame the NWA MEC for not negotiating constructively, or for going on vacation right before the merger announcement?
Or will you blame the DL MEC for trying to throw the NWA guys under the bus and conspire with the company to screw them? Which side do you believe? Do you root for your team regardless?

I'm convinced that neither side is getting a clear picture.

 

[michael707767]

Really? And what makes you the authority, your apparent ego? Moak walked out, now he will have to lower the expectations of the group in order to present a reasonable offer to an arbitrator.

Moak walked out because he had made a resonable offer, and it was declined.

 

[aircowboy]

Ford and Harrison will be toasting this victory. Foolish that is all I can say.

 

[aircowboy]

It you really believe this is the "floor" and management will negotiate something better you need to change the brand you are smoking. By voting yes you are saying" this is plenty till 2012."

 

[JohnQ]

It you really believe this is the "floor" and management will negotiate something better you need to change the brand you are smoking.

This is indeed the floor--it is absolutely the minimum the DAL pilots will get! Again, it is insurance against a long drawn-out scenario that would preclude any contractual gains. I'm not sure how you can't see that--it is right in front of your face.

By voting yes you are saying "this is plenty till 2012."

Using your logic, voting it down would be saying "we actually want far LESS than what you were offering with LOA 19."

Hard to see how that is a good thing.

And in the midst of $120/bbl oil and several recent BKs and liquidations in our industry, if you honestly think we could shoot this down and get even more in the near future...well someone needs to check the brand of puff, but I don't think it is me!

We CAN get more...but only with a JOINT contract; but this LOA will be the basis from which we negotiate it. If we negotiate a joint contract from the basis of our existing contracts as they are currently written, it will NOT be as good as it will eventually be with LOA 19 as the floor. It is the efficiencies of a combined pilot group that will enable the economic pie to get even larger, thus the newer joint contract more lucrative for all of us than LOA 19 ever could be just for the DAL guys.

Remember, LOA 19 doesn't take effect until the DCC (Date of Corporate Closing) and we don't want it to take effect at all! The joint contract will (hopefully) supersede it.

I truly don't see us shooting down LOA 19 so as to get another standalone DAL-only LOA that is even more lucrative--isn't going to happen.

And in any case, I thought some of the sentiment was that we should DECLINE this LOA so as to earn less?...somehow that is seen as a good thing. (?)

 

[zonker]

Looks like we have management plants cheerleading this deal.

The floor is where your careers are going after you allow 255 70 seaters on the property.

 

[aircowboy]

You are allowing management to divide us from the start. You are playing right along with their game.