Delta Pilots Association-Yes!!!

[waveflyer]

Those regional guys wouldn't have a job at all if it wasn't for outsourcing, and therefore be unqualified to apply at a major. You can't have your cake (Comair academy grad to RJ pilot career path allowed by outsourcing) and eat it too. (major airline job openings limited by outsourcing)

That's why it's funny to me when RJ guys bellyache about how the mainline guys voted away scope, reducing their ability to move up. It's how you got your job in the first place, dummy.

A truly ignorant post.

A big +1 for each of the previous comments on this post. You're why DALPA is so unrespected and hated in the industry. You sell out, then blame those who you sold out. Nice. I'd have been more than happy to cap my regional career at a 30seat turboprop.
As a legacy pilot, who returned to the regionals to fly the rj's that you sold out while I was on the street, this mindset is particularly offensive. There are thousands doing their 3rd tours at the regionals after 9/11 furloughs and financial meltdown furloughs. Did I mention, truly F^CKING IGNORANT?

There's zero excuse for you phukers raising scope to 90-seaters in 07-
(as if there was one to let any jet off the property.)

Here's the line you idiots need to get. If the company wants to buy 1000 Beech Baron's and fly them under the delta flag: DALPA pilots need to fly them.
And all other variations.

Think you can handle that you ignorant sellouts?
Thank god you have new blood in there to educate you on the damage you've done to the whole industry.

 

[jynxyjericho]

Those regional guys wouldn't have a job at all if it wasn't for outsourcing, and therefore be unqualified to apply at a major. You can't have your cake (Comair academy grad to RJ pilot career path allowed by outsourcing) and eat it too. (major airline job openings limited by outsourcing)

That's why it's funny to me when RJ guys bellyache about how the mainline guys voted away scope, reducing their ability to move up. It's how you got your job in the first place, dummy.

Obvious Troll is Obvious

 

[Andy]

ALPA is a sinking ship. I think it would be a great move to go in-house, all great reasons. Good luck.

He forgot to include the alpo push poll that gave them 'justification' to push for age 65. Once they had minimal cover, alpo went to Rep Mica (behind closed doors) who was bottling up age 65 legislation in subcommittee and got him to release it. In short order, age 65 became the law of the land. All thanks to alpo.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

And you were there in the room Andy??

Whatever Jackhole....

 

[BoilerUP]

Obvious Troll is Obvious

Yeah, no doubt..

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showpost.php?p=1918886&postcount=6

 

[71driver]

The DPA is a miserable failure. It's taken them a year to get a few thousand cards, and under the law, the cards expire after a year. So, those cards you collected at the beginning are about to start expiring, and then you have to get new cards from the same people again, let alone convincing new lemmings to go along with this crazy scheme. You'll never get the 50% you need just to hold an election, let alone actually win an election. You should end the silliness and focus on getting a new contract.

When you respond in defense of ALPA (T.O.) you need to sign with the title of your position with ALPA, to NOT do so is disingenuous.

I can say as a former TWA Pilot, after I heard 3 1/2 hours of closing arguments from ALPA's attorney (in the recent lawsuit TWA vs ALPA) on how they provided support for the former TWA Pilots, DPA is worth the effort. The jury, Judge and everyone in the courtroom struggled to stay awake as ALPA's Attorney hopelessly rambled on trying to put together some series of events that showed their support for TWA Pilots, and as you may know, the jury was unconvinced ( as was I and anybody with half a brain would be sitting in that courtroom) and brought back a unanimous decision in favor of the TWA Pilots. I hope Delta Pilots are successful in getting out from under ALPA. ALPA does what's best for ALPA, if your needs are deemed valid by ALPA then you'll get great support.........if not....be careful and get all correspondence in writing.

 

[knowlimits]

no point

 

[71driver]

no point

The point is ALPA MAY or MAY NOT be there for you when they are most needed, i.e. a merger.........while an in-house Union WILL! TWA Pilots paid dues for 70 years but ALPA felt it wasn't worth the fight (in a jury's opinion) to support TWA during the American merger.........but thanks for reminding me why I stopped posting...classic!

 

[INIT REF]

I think you guys either read things into my post that weren't there or I wrote it in a way that worked some people up. I'll try to clarify. For the record, I've never voted yes for any TA or contract that allowed any relaxation of scope.

Since Wave posted his mini-resume I'll post mine.

In 1988 I was flying a 19 seat turboprop for a commuter airline. (They were called that back then, so don't get upset)
In 2011 I'm working for a legacy carrier.
In between I've flown for 3 121 carriers, 1 ACMI, 1 part 91 and 1 overseas carrier.
Furloughed for 4 years and 6 mos.

I don't think I need a lesson from you, Wave, or anyone else on this board who earned their ATP after 9/11 about scope, regionals vs mainline or the state of the industry.

Mainline pilots, under pressure from their employers and, unfortunately their negotiating committees, allowed contract flying to creep from 0 to 76 seats. So where are we now? The Metro that I flew over 20 years ago was an entry level job. Now the RJs are the entry level job. I agree with everyone who thinks that scope relaxation is a terrible thing. I was furloughed because of it. More accurately, I was replaced because of it. Replaced by guys flying RJs right out of the Comair academy. Who now are mad because the job they were happy to take has now limited their ability to go to mainline.

Cake - eat = can't have.

I'm not bashing regionals, or regional pilots. Sorry if I gave that impression. I was one, and still remember it well. And above all, I'm not justifying APA and ALPA for allowing scope relaxation. I hate it as much or more than anyone who disagreed with my post. But you have to see the irony when regional pilots are pissed at mainline guys because there aren't any job openings. You've already gotten it. Now deal with it and hope, like I do, mainline takes those planes back and you get a number.

Lastly, Wave, I thought everything at SWA was all chocolate-coated awesomeness. Why do you feel you have to police the threads about the legacies? Still kind of miss being at UAL? And I agree about the Baron comment. I've got 600 hours in one. Get 'em on the certificate, keep 'em on the certificate. Let the Millennials fly those as entry level mainline jobs.

 

[waveflyer]

We have the same conclusions and many of the same career "experiences"- just different conclusions. I think you have forgotten leverage and what it's like to be young and dream and fight for the career. It is unrealistic to think the young, new and naive, without any organization to represent them, much less vote- will be the defenders of the profession.

Unions must lead the young. And what we've seen from ALPA is blaming them while over and over paying off the senior and screwing the young- sorry- I think your perspective is ignorant and have no problem lecturing you- ESPECIALLY you, bc your experiences should have taught you better.

Scope issues come from the top.

 

[INIT REF]

OK Michael Corleone. I've been in and out of ALPA for over 15 years, and been an LEC vice chairman. I've done what I can at the volunteer/rep level to combat the erosion of our careers, now I'm just a line pilot who votes. I agree with you that ALPA has been corrupted by senior guys who sold out the junior guys for pay.

In my opinion, ALPA can't serve two masters and maybe another labor group (or a division of the current one) would serve the regionals and the mainline pilots better.

How would you fix the problem? Require all flying of any airline's passengers be done by pilots on the same seniority list? I'm all for it. Require all a/c flying an airline's passengers be on their certificate? Absolutely. But that ship has sailed. How do we get it back?

Your posts in this thread show an obvious distaste for ALPA, but you say that the young and naive need an organization to represent them. What's your solution, if not ALPA?

You say my perspective is ignorant. Fine. That's your right. I say my perspective is reality. The big question is, besides pound out post number 4563, what are you going to do about it? What are we all going to do about it?

I call my reps and try to help direct them, and vote 'no' for any increase in contract flying.

Maybe you can have a sit-down with the heads of the 5 families and work it out.

 

[waveflyer]

Yet in 2006, DALPA voted to allow 90-seaters into their delta connection.
Key word- voted. I'm not an alpa hater- I think most of it's problems come from within individual groups. What I think is ignorant is your blaming of kids out of college who just want to fly and get to a major like we all did-- who have no vote on what that career path would be.
Sorry, but its hypocritical, to vote jets off the property and then be militantly pissed when pilots take the only job available. Again: leverage. You're asking pilots to give up currency, and possibly their career, and not feed their family when major airline pilots had to give in FIRST.
It makes zero sense. This debate we're having is not about what to do now. I went to swa - that's how I handled it. What you have to do is convince your pilots that they will have to make scope pullback a priority. That the exclusion/disenfranchisement of pilots in the same brand has done more to pull down their wages than a thousand Virgin Americas. make them understand that regional pilots will continue to raise wages as best they can, but will never have the leverage bc of their short term contract status. They can be drawn down (comair), while others are built up (skywest)- who's next when skywest is too expensive? Great lakes? Cape air?
As for me, I make sure military background/ and old school turboprop regional pilots know the damage that outsourcing to this level has done. SWA seems to get it, and it looks like DALPA is getting enough new blood, and have enough furloughs back who were forced to fly at regionals that they are starting to get it. I'm hopeful this new blood can effect change, but fear the baby boomers greed still has the numbers.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Hey Init....Can't see wave's usual stupidity since I am taking advantage of that great Ignore feature but quit wasting bandwidth on that waste of skin.

He's a SWA F/O who thinks he knows everything now......

 

[Dizel8]

Actually, waves post was pretty good!