Delta-Northwest Deal at Risk

[ultrarunner]

..Most NWA guys will retire at 60 or shortly after. If "career expectations" are part of a merger scenario this has to be taken into account.

Basing and integration on when pilots "MIGHT" retire?

Hmmm....I don't think so, IMO.

 

[Cessna340]

When NWA/Republic merged, their were 20 year fences put up to protect the "career expectations" of the NWA pilots. Essentially keeping Republic pilots off the the NWA widebodies their entire career.

IMHO that would be the solution to the seniority dillema. Put up fences so both pilot groups realize their career expectations, essentially blocking the other pilot group from flying their aircraft.

That's great, but I'm 32 and have another 32 years flying for the big D. So if you want your fences then they need to be long enough to see me to the END of my career. A fair blend of the lists is best in my opinion. If you guys need the top 400 for the 747 fine. But then you guys also need the bottom 1000 for the dc9 and 319s. JMHO.

 

[tomgoodman]

Outrageous demand?

One of the people close to the talks said a small group of Northwest seniority list pilot negotiators want thousands of young Delta pilots to go to the bottom of the combined seniority list as part of agreeing to a deal on seniority. The person said that was a major hang-up.

That could also backfire. Delta pilots have been known to dump pensions.
If true at all, it's probably a "throw-away" demand -- designed to be traded off for something better, like a lump-sum buyout.

 

[Noserider76]

Why do you think that DOH wouldn't be fair, at least for the majority of the seniority lists.

Just one look at what similar seniority holds at both companies will answer that. The bottom line is that no group should be harmed or receive a windfall after this. You really have to take a snapshot of the companies at this point then make the decisions. What is your upgrade time at this point? You can't project what a company might have done in the future or how many pilots might retire early.

If you can hold DC-9 capt in DTW before the merger, that's where you should be slotted. If you can hold 767 FO LAX, that's where you go. Software programs available can project your career very well. Lastly, temporary fences around bases to protect the person's current quality of life.

If anyone's looking at this thinking, "whoa I might be able to move to XXXX and hold XXXX after this is done", they're the one's who need a reality check. The only reasonable way to do it will result in everyone's lives being similar to the way they are now when all is said and done.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I am 33 and I do not think that there is any way to protect what we THINK our career progression might have been.
There is no way to do that. The best case scenario is a fair ratio with some adequate fences, and maybe a buy off of the top 500-2000 NWA pilots.
My question is if they have a frozen A plan, do they get our full B plan as well. I would think so. The way I see it, this merger will help them out monetarily. More so than a DAL pilot. They will have two retirements, our work rules and pay. I would hope that the ratio would be adjusted for that. But you always shoot for the moon.

 

[kngarthur]

From AP

Delta and Northwest don't need a labor agreement between their pilots unions before announcing a combination, but having one in place now could help them speed up the integration of the two carriers down the line.

One of the people close to the talks said a small group of Northwest seniority list pilot negotiators want thousands of young Delta pilots to go to the bottom of the combined seniority list as part of agreeing to a deal on seniority. The person said that was a major hang-up.(YA THINK???) A spokesman for the Northwest pilots union, Greg Rizzuto, did not immediately return a call and a page Tuesday night to his cell phone seeking comment.



Let's hope this is all worked out fairly......What do you think Nu? Maybe they are right since our bottom couple THOUSAND pilots are all YOUNG and recently graduated from Embry Riddle.... You need to call Greg Rizzuto and straighten him out....


Bye Bye--General Lee

I think DOH would be the most fair.

 

[nwaredtail]

It is true that they do not have to bring the seniority to a vote. Only compensation issues, unless section 6 is opened.
The question is will they not let the rank-and-file vote on this?

Timeline is too fast for Memrat. Believe me!

 

[~~~^~~~]

If anyone's looking at this thinking, "whoa I might be able to move to XXXX and hold XXXX after this is done", they're the one's who need a reality check. The only reasonable way to do it will result in everyone's lives being similar to the way they are now when all is said and done.

Excellent post.

 

[General Lee]

Jetflyer is right on the money.

Delta had a recent rash of retirements which they want concessions for and that makes sense. But, NWA is going to have the same thing soon and we want to take advantage of that. If NWA gives up concessions to the younger Detla pilots, for above mentioned, then they would get to take advantage of their big retirements and ours, while the younger NWA pilots would get neither. That does not seem right.

Sure, that makes sense. You are also bringing planes to the table that will likely be parked sooner than later, and that includes the 68 larger DC9s. You have no replacement order for those, except E175s for Compass. Your only outstanding order I believe is the 787 order, which is being delayed constantly. None of your hubs are desireable to anyone of our pilots, unless they commute from there, unlike our warmer hubs to the south, which sound like heaven to your commuters. But hey, if you want to keep your current management and go forward, then that is up to your negotiators, who sound like Easties from USAir (if the reports are right). Let's hope for fair and balanced...


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I think DOH would be the most fair.

Nah, a percentage merger is more fair. If you are in the top 5% of one company, you should be in the top 5% of a merged company, if both companies are equal. That isn't the case of a Jetblue who started 9 years ago, but one of equal companies. Your old senior Captains are thinking our senior Captains are spring chickens who must be in their early 40s......That really is not the case......

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Jmoney]

Tool!!!!!

Sure, that makes sense. You are also bringing planes to the table that will likely be parked sooner than later, and that includes the 68 larger DC9s. You have no replacement order for those, except E175s for Compass. Your only outstanding order I believe is the 787 order, which is being delayed constantly. None of your hubs are desireable to anyone of our pilots, unless they commute from there, unlike our warmer hubs to the south, which sound like heaven to your commuters. But hey, if you want to keep your current management and go forward, then that is up to your negotiators, who sound like Easties from USAir (if the reports are right). Let's hope for fair and balanced...


Bye Bye--General Lee

Can anyone here take this idiot seriously anymore? I mean, honestly, anyone who comes here under two identities multiple times daily, just to stroke his ego......Something like 15,000 posts-all about his ego?
-Truly pathetic....

General-maybe you should just erect a little shrine to your ego in the corner of your basement-visit that little shrine twelve times daily and pray to your ego-just leave all the normal people alone!

 

[Cessna340]

Nah, a percentage merger is more fair. If you are in the top 5% of one company, you should be in the top 5% of a merged company, if both companies are equal. That isn't the case of a Jetblue who started 9 years ago, but one of equal companies. Your old senior Captains are thinking our senior Captains are spring chickens who must be in their early 40s......That really is not the case......

Bye Bye--General Lee

You are on the right track and that is why in this merger relative % before and after is NOT fair. If NWA and DAL had the same % of wide to narrow then maybe, but that is not the case.

If we at DAL get the same % after as before then I just got F-ed. My post expectations to fly a wide body will be reduced if my relative position stays the same.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Remember that DAL management will more than likely be the ones at the helm. They will order more wide bodies in the coming years. That will be good for all. I do agree, but is about ego(wide body) or career earnings. I know than they do go hand in hand, but, you must remember that both sides must go for it.

 

[Cessna340]

Remember that DAL management will more than likely be the ones at the helm. They will order more wide bodies in the coming years. That will be good for all. I do agree, but is about ego(wide body) or career earnings. I know than they do go hand in hand, but, you must remember that both sides must go for it.

Working for DAL for the last 6.8 years has made several things very clear to me. One is never believe any promise of future growth or aircraft orders. Yet it amazes me how a pilot will bite at that one again and again. Another is never fall for the "union brotherhood" crap. They are not brothers and will eat their young every chance they are given. The I've got mine and make me whole crowd could not be larger at the Big D... JMHO

 

[737 Pylt]

Can anyone here take this idiot seriously anymore? I mean, honestly, anyone who comes here under two identities multiple times daily, just to stroke his ego......

Seems you're pretty good at stroking. Kind of like that description with the landing gear and the "stroke" of the wrist! Keep up the good work!

Something like 15,000 posts-all about his ego?
-Truly pathetic....

You mean kind of like you, jerk406 who is banned for now, and tanker clown.....You need help bad!

General-maybe you should just erect a little shrine to your ego in the corner of your basement-visit that little shrine twelve times daily and pray to your ego-just leave all the normal people alone!

Anyone notice that while jerk406 and tanker clown were banned this little prick showed up with more of the same useless posts! Hey jerk406, tanker clown, and whoever else you are posting as, get yourself some serious help, and for the love of all things, get back on that prozac!
Now go and get the colonel some coffee!

737