Delta Jumpseat Policy Question

[Ty Webb]

Well, I have to say that Delta has always been very good to me J/Seating out of ATL when our own flights are full or too long of a wait, and tonight was no exception.

The first Delta guy offered to ride on a pass, and, then, after I was seated in business class, another Delta pilot got on board as well, apparently also deciding to ride on a pass to allow me to get home.

Thanks, guys . . . . it was appreciated!

 

[Russ]

I don't mean to sound as if I've received the short end from D when I JS. Sometimes however having less than a true recip agreement is trying when you are trying to get where your going knowing the other guy would suceed if it was on your airline.

 

[General Lee]

Russ,


Glad to see you are up to date on the DFW closing. There also aren't too many DFW based Skywest pilots, although a few are probably based there on reserve. I tried to erase the "SLC based pilots" part due to the fact that any jet base probably flies part of their trips on the Delta side. But, there is a problem with us allowing every one of your pilots on any of our jumpseats up front, and you guys not reciprocating. It is a double standard for sure. The reason I brought this up is because you like to preach to the chior that your crap don't stink, and then you can't see this huge gaping hole in your own procedures. Our pilots usually don't ask your pilots which airline you have been flying for during the last trip---because if we did and you just flew a trip for United---there might have been a chance that you couldn't allow a Delta pilot up front with you----and at the same time asking for a ride from us. We don't do that---and you guys do. Quit bit ching about our procedure of 1 or 2 jumpseaters depending on the plane. Your procedure isn't a good one either. Have a great night.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Russ]

Yup, could be better but its a heck of a sight better than Deltas. I can carry 50 D JS'ers on a UA flight. How many SkyWest JS'ers can you carry on a D flight?

No program is not without room for improvement, some simply are in greater need than others. I hope you don't find some level of equivalence in the pratfalls of our comparative systems, D is much more in need of overhaul. I understand much is out of the hands of the pilots. That is your out to blame management and move on.

"preach to the chior that your crap don't stink"

Refresh my memory if you would...when and where?

"Quit bit ching about our procedure of 1 or 2 jumpseaters depending on the plane"

Aye aye Admiral...but not without a parting shot. I won't complain as long as I'm occupying one of those seats. If I'm the third guy at the gate and the plane is otherwise wide open I might be a bit torqued off.

Enjoy your evening.

 

[General Lee]

Russ,

Ah, I had to come back for this one. You ask how many Skywest jumpseaters can go on our flights? Can't you guys write passes or use your pass cards now on our flights? If you could, which you can according to my Skywest friend there in SLC, you wouldn't need more than one jumpseat in the cockpit---because there would be open seats in the back! HA! I got you. We can't do that on United flights, but you can do it on either United or Delta, and any of your pilots can sit in any of our cockpits, but we can't sit in your United RJ cockpits. Sounds to me like your jumpseat policy is the one that needs to be fixed first.....If you are the third guy at the gate and there is a seat open in the back and two jumpseaters up front (in a 764), then you would use your pass card and get on.


Ty,

You guys have been great to us also. I have said it before, but one of your guys let me in the cockpit before 9-11 while he sat in the stew jumpseat. That was very nice.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SizzleChest]

What is even more strange with AA's jumpseat is that American Connection CHQ has D6U while American Connection Transtates only has D6L.... both AAC carriers but according to the focus page, CHQ is unlimited but TSA is not..... hmmmmmm

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

You guys have been great to us also. I have said it before, but one of your guys let me in the cockpit before 9-11 while he sat in the stew jumpseat. That was very nice.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Yeah, but he had the legs for it . . . .

Seriously, I have sat on that seat to free up seats in the cabin, too. It's a lousy seat, to be sure, sandwiched between the lavs and the engines, but I think most of our guys would do it, certainly the commuters would!

 

[rogerroger]

General, Why didn't u guys negotiate unlimited jumpseats with your concession package. the company took 1 billion a year from you guys without giving you squat. surely giving you guys unlimited jumpseats would have been very fair, considering what they took from you. maybe D pilots just don't really give a !!#@$!

 

[aa73]

What is even more strange with AA's jumpseat is that American Connection CHQ has D6U while American Connection Transtates only has D6L.... both AAC carriers but according to the focus page, CHQ is unlimited but TSA is not..... hmmmmmm

That is really wierd.... but it really doesn't matter because if there are open seats, more than one American Connection pilot can write a pass. No need to jumpseat, am I right?

 

[Russ]

OK, general. Obvious we both are biased towards our respective systems. A better, impartial measure would be what someone who doesn't work for either of us says. A SWA guy tries to JS on a SkyWest flight and on a DAL flight. Multiple JS'ers waiting, wide open in the back of both aircraft. Who's system do you think he/she is going to think is superior?

 

[General Lee]

Russ,

I was under the impression that we had changed that in the last TA---and MAYBE we have. I haven't gotten a copy of the full TA yet, but I will have to check into it. I thought I saw that we were going to allow unlimited jumpseaters (I may be wrong), and I know I saw something about CASS and something with AA and Southwest initially. So, if a Southwest guy came up and looked at both of our procedures, he would side with me because Delta is working on a cockpit jumpseat with AA and Southwest initially. There you have it, I win again.


As far as unlimited jumpseats on our flights, I would love FDJ2 or someone else at Delta to chime in and tell me if we did try to get them.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Russ]

And until its implemented, if ever it is, I win.

You have enough disclaimers in there, yet you claim victory. White man speak with forked tongue.

 

[General Lee]

Russ,


Let's not get racial here. Next thing you will tell me is that I can't "jump." Your jumpseat policy has such large gaps in it you could drive a Mack truck through it. I love how your airline is selective in which airplanes we can fly in the cockpit, and we are not towards any of your pilots. That sounds unfair. My captains don't ask "which" Skywest subsidiary you guys fly for---they allow everyone the right to sit up front. You guys do NOT reciprocate. Sure, you may say you do, but that isn't what the United ticket counter guy says in SFO or DEN. That is ridiculous, and it should be looked into. Instead you try to slam us while not improving your own procedure. Talk about a fork toothed tongue. I believe we did ask for and probably got unlimited jumpseats, but that will have to be confirmed. When dealing with large pay cuts, productivity cuts, vacation cuts, and other large hurdles---please excuse us for not getting everything you needed for the jumpseat. We did get some gains, and hopefully we did get unlimited jumps. We shall see.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Russ]

Until CASS is up and running,do you honestly expect UAL to have a real time ability to verify DAL pilot employment to let you up front? We don't run the show at many UA stations. What makes you think your entitled to the UA JS? You dont do any work for UA, however a SkyWest pilot goes between systems frequently and this is why we can. You sound a bit jealous. As said earlier, till its implemented, I win.

 

[General Lee]

Russ,


We are looking at who's jumpseat procedure is better, and you just admitted that we Delta pilots cannot get on half of your flights due to gate agents. We allow every one of your pilots to sit in our cockpit, and you cannot offer the same due to logistical problems that could be fixed by your pilot group giving a memo to the gate agents requesting them to contact you directly if a Delta guy shows up and requests one. (This would be only if a United guy isn't requesting it) A simple memo. But, you again can't see that. I would absolutely say that our procedure gives you guys a better chance at a seat up front than your procedure does, and therefore, yet again, I win. It's all about having the opportunity to jumpseat, and you guys have better access to ours than we do to yours. So, quit bit ching, and FIX YOUR JUMPSEAT PROCEDURES.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Russ]

I somehow memorize the list of DAL pilots before every flight so I know on a real time basis who is employed, who's furloughed, who's fired when I'm flying through a UAL run station. They can get me all the notes they want but I have no way to verify your real time employment status. What by the way makes you think you have any entitlement to the JS when we are flying for the competition(UA)?
I fly passengers for both, you don't. Ergo, my argument is stronger than yours and I still win.

So, until your alledged unlimited JS'er program goes through, you lose.

 

[General Lee]

Russ,

You can't call your dispatcher? That sounds like a hassle, but so is allowing everyone of your guys on our planes with a smile apparently. You can't seem to fathom that your system is unfair. We don't provide a hassle, you do. I was told by one of your guys in SMF (as he was jumpseating nonstop to ATL) to ask the gate agent to talk to the captain who then needed to call a dispatcher. I said that seemed like a hassle, and he replied, "well yes it is, but do it as early as you can." He then went back and sat in one of our comfy first class seats free to ATL. (This was prior to you guys getting the PPR cards) Nice. I think your system is lame, and guarantees nothing, while ours can get any one of your guys a seat upfront in the cockpit. Game, set, match. I win.


Bye Bye--General Lee

PS--Furloughed pilots, retired pilots, etc don't have their badges. You didn't know that? Who do you let on your airplanes?

 

[Russ]

I just took the time to call dispatch and asked them if they could verify real time employment status and the answer was no.


"This was prior to you guys getting the PPR cards"

Oh really. We are not issued the PPR cards, at least in the credit card form as I led to believe others have. Again your system is in need of an overhaul. We have to call on the phone and do any changes. It makes it a royal pain to run from the full SAN flight over to the open LAX one. Your agents too busy to help and I get left behind as there is already a JS'er. That was the final experience I had JS'ing on DAL prior to domocile change. I lost that day, but it goes to show that I have won the argument.
Again, ask a SWA, Alaska, USair, FEDEX, UPS, etc who's system is better. I've hauled 7 UPS JS'ers from ORD to work about a month ago. That has only been topped by me by 9 different types from LAX to SAN. That aint gonna happen on DAL. You lose.

 

[trip]

General SKYW has allways taken the high road when it comes to jumpseats, and we have taken unlimited jumpseaters for as long as I can remember. As far as verifying your enployment over the phone with disp. this was O.K. until TSA got wind of it then they promptley put a stop to it. I dont see how you can say our policy is unfair for DL guys? Do you have an axe that needs sharpening?

 

[General Lee]

Trip,


Not really, although I find it unfair to our West Coast pilots that need to commute when Skywest only has United Express flights(SAN--LAX, FAT--LAX, PSP-LAX etc). Those same guys that can't let our LA based guys into the Untied Express cockpits later ask for a ride back to SLC in our jumpseats. Sounds a bit unfair, eh? And the Skywest guys CAN sit in ours regardless. Can you not see the double standard? I live in ATL and don't use Skywest hardly at all, but I have heard from a few Delta captains I have flown with that lived in San Diego about this.


The whole reason I started this is because Russ came on and bitc hed about our jumpseat policy, when infact Skywest's isn't perfect either. Had he not complained about ours, which we are attempting to fix, then I wouldn't have said any of this. When people complain, they had better make sure first that their program is PERFECT.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Russ,


We are talking about cockpit jumpseats. I think it is just groovy that you took 7 UPS'rs to Louisville. Awesome. Bravo. Sweet. Anyway, when it comes down to it, if the plane was full, none of them would have gone. Now, the problem here is the cockpit jumpseat, which any of your pilots CAN fly in on our planes. Yup, it doesn't matter if your guy is an IAH E120 Capt, or an ORD based FO that flies mainly for United. All they have to do is come up to the gate and fill out a form. We don't ask. Now, can you say the same? How do the Continental pilots handle your IAH pilots? I believe they only allow IAH based pilots into their cockpits, and only if they have an IAH badge. Is that true? Should we do the same? We can't get into the cockpit of your UAL planes when it is full in the back, but any of your guys can get into ours. HMMMMMMMMM. Can you see this yet? Are you having problems?

As far as you having to call for seats and not getting an actual PPR card yet, I would say that you have an improvement over the past. We still can't get a seat upfront of your UAL or CAL planes WHEN THE BACK IS FULL. I win.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Russ]

Admiral

DAL pilots compose a small minority of the pilot work force with JS privleges. When measured by everyone else, SkyWest has a far better JS policy.
SkyWest has room for improvement alright, not as much as Delta however. Ask 10 guys who work for neither of us and ask who has a better policy. The answer is I win, you don't.

I have answered your questions, now answer mine, not as a DAL pilot with that bias, if you were a SWA pilot (SWA guys, don't kill me) who, today has a better JS policy. Again that's today, not off in some far off land of a contract you just signed but today.

Second, Why do you think you should have access to the UA side of SkyWest? Do you not understand that UAL has no way to verify employment? Do you understand that I have no quick way of doing it either?

If you don't answer these questions, you lose and I win.

As far as the IAH operation, I honestly have no idea how it works.

 

[On Your Six]

I just took the time to call dispatch and asked them if they could verify real time employment status and the answer was no.


"This was prior to you guys getting the PPR cards"

Oh really. We are not issued the PPR cards, at least in the credit card form as I led to believe others have. Again your system is in need of an overhaul. We have to call on the phone and do any changes. It makes it a royal pain to run from the full SAN flight over to the open LAX one. Your agents too busy to help and I get left behind as there is already a JS'er. That was the final experience I had JS'ing on DAL prior to domocile change. I lost that day, but it goes to show that I have won the argument.
Again, ask a SWA, Alaska, USair, FEDEX, UPS, etc who's system is better. I've hauled 7 UPS JS'ers from ORD to work about a month ago. That has only been topped by me by 9 different types from LAX to SAN. That aint gonna happen on DAL. You lose.

Russ,

You're full of yourself... I agree with the General. Before furlough when I was commuting, I did not find Skywest that great in terms of jumpseat access.

 

[Russ]

What were the circumstances? DAL pilot on a UA flight?

 

[Dizel8]

General says: "So, quit bit ching, and FIX YOUR JUMPSEAT PROCEDURES."

Yep General, let us know when you reciprocate with unlimited to all the carriers that let DAL pilots and F/A's on in unlimited quantities.

 

[General Lee]

Dizel8,


Thanks for coming into the fray. You know that we pilots do not control the flight attendant jumpseats, and we just got our own jumpseats in '96. As far as unlimited jumpseats, I believe we did bargain for that and I will check into that. We gave them a billion a year for 5 years, so I hope so. But, we have stated that we will get CASS. Have you guys started that program yet? Maybe you have.



Russ,

Again, you haven't addressed my question----is it fair to Skywest and Delta jumpseaters that we cannot sit in every one of your Skywest jumpseats (in the cockpit), while any one of your pilots from any base flying any feed for any airline (UA, CO) can sit in our cockpit? That is the crux of my argument. I know that you guys can provide unlimited jumpseats in the back, and I can use my PPR card to sit in the back too without asking you. My problem (or beef) is with the cockpit---since a lot of your flights are full (you have smaller aircraft).


Ok, so I will answer your questions so I can win. If I were a SW pilot, I would think your deal is better currently, until we get that program set up (with AA and SW initially) to verify employment. Then our program would be preferable. Second, why should we get the jumpseat on the United side? Well, I would think any United pilot should get that seat first, since you are providing feed for them. I can understand that. ASA and Comair pilots get our seat first--since our company owns them, and then other DCI carriers get it next. But, if there is no United guy present, then I would think that we should be allowed in your United RJ cockpit if the back is full. Calling your dispatcher should have done the trick--since they probably have a computer that could verify employment. If not, then why should we allow a guy in DEN commuting home to SLC a ride when he just finished a bunch of United legs? Is that a double standard? I think it is. Answer my questions or I win. Tell me why it isn't a double standard. Are we just being super duper nice?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[wil]

Russ- I think you owe the General a round at the "Boar's Nest". If Skywest is providing feed for UA and DAL ( a fingercuff airline if you will ) then Delta (and us wholly owned) should have access to the cockpit no matter the paint scheme and vice versa. Cheers, Wil

 

[Heavy Set]

Russ- I think you owe the General a round at the "Boar's Nest". If Skywest is providing feed for UA and DAL ( a fingercuff airline if you will ) then Delta (and us wholly owned) should have access to the cockpit no matter the paint scheme and vice versa. Cheers, Wil

I agree with Wil and the General on this one.

 

[trip]

I along with the majority of SKYW pilots agree that is way it should be (cockpit seat no matter the paint) but until the program is in place its not allowed. In the mean time we welcome all and as many as seats permit, free of charge.

 

[Dizel8]

General says: "But, we have stated that we will get CASS. Have you guys started that program yet? Maybe you have."

Apparently the system is up and awaiting certification from the FAA or the TSA, whoever is in charge of it. They, the federal powers that be, were going to stop the trials and only allow the carriers previously certified to continue, however, I guess cooler heads have prevailed and it is supposed to be moving again.

However, in the absence of that, you can still utilize the F/A jumpseats, sadly not first class, but it gets you there and it sure beats another night away from home.