Delta is in talks with SkyWest to sell one or both of its regional airlines.

[ATR-DRIVR]

4%? If you believe that I have some waterfront property to sell you just outside Vegas. So if ASA just stopped flying for 1 day, it would only be a "4%" disruption in service and loss of revenue?

 

[storminpilot]

Skywest will operate the airlines separately. Why integrate them? It casuses a lot of problems and then if Skywest chooses to take ASA or Comair public they can later.

 

[bvt1151]

With Skywest pilots at least considering unionizing, CMR or ASA would push them over the edge.

Skywest, meet ALPA.

ALPA, Skywest.

 

[Visceral]

Kinda what I was thinking. From what I recall, FedEx was non-union until they acquired the unionized Flying Tigers. Seems to have worked there.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Talk to some of the Flying Tiger guys and let me know what they say....

 

[sleepy]

My guess is that Skywest would keep ASA and or Comair seperate companies. They will slowly transfer assets from ASA and Comair to Skywest (that is, if ASA and Comair pilots don't agree to lower their wages and benefits to Skywest levels), allowing the Skywest pilots to fly the routes formerly flown by ASA and Comar pilots in their former aircraft. Eventually, ASA and Comair will just disappear (along with ALPA representation and union contracts).

I hope I am wrong, but it looks bad for ASA and Comair. Of course, this could just be another ploy by DAL management and DALPA to scare the ASA into a substandard contract.

The Comair pilots have already blinked, so they have demonstrated to management that they will probably lower themselves to Skywest standards to save their jobs.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Stormin is right!

I agree that they would keep it seperate. The one thing that does not make sense is that Delta will immediately pay more for DCI service for that respective carrier. The good news would be that the remaining carrier would more than likely get most of the new upcomming growth.

But! It would most likely be ASA. We are already colocated with Skywest, our cost structure is more in line with theirs, and Delta paid less for us than Comair. Our value is probably less than Comairs (if there is a value that has been set). This would be VERY problematic in the event that Skywest management tries to merge the lists. You know that the Skywest doods will only go for a staple. I am not sure what ALPA could do in this case even with successorship clauses.

Surplus??? You could help on this one.

 

[catIIIc]

How do you know that we would only go for a staple. Unfortunately it will not be up to us, our mangement will tell us how it will happen. We will have no say in any of this nor will Comair or ASA. I say DOH with fences, so you guys can't have my seat in ORD and I can't get yours in ATL,CVG. Good luck to us all.

 

[FDJ2]

I am not sure what ALPA could do in this case even with successorship clauses.

Well isn't that what successorship clauses are all about? If the language is strong and air tight, it will be complied with. What specific language is in the ASA/CMR PWAs for such a liklihood. Maybe someone could post it.

 

[bvt1151]

B. Successorship

1. The company will require any successor resulting from the transfer of the ownership or control of all or substantially all of the equity securities or assets of the Company (a "successorship transaction) to recognize the Association as the representative of the pilots, to employ the pilots on the seniority list in accordance with the provisions of this Agreement and to assume to be bound by the Agreement.

2. In the event of a successorship transaction in which the successor is an air carrier or any person or entity that owns or controls or is owned or controlled by an air carrier which results in an operational merger, the Company will require the successor to agree to provide the Company's pilots with a fair and equitable seniority integration as providd in Sections 3 and 13 of the Labor Protective Provisions specified by the CAB in the Allegheny-Mohawk merger, except that such seniority integration will be governed by the Associations Merger Policy if both pilot groups are represented by the Association.



I don't have the LOA in front of me, but it has some further successorship language.

 

[AviatorTx]

What I don't get is this. What happens to the seniority list when a non-union airline purchases a union one?

No flame bait, I just have no idea what would happen.

Also, why couldn't ASA and Comair do what ExpressJet when they were sold off from CO?

Someone just posted a successorship clause right before this post. If this is for CMR, ASA or both, you are covered. If an airline does not have this, there could be trouble.

Lacking a successorship clause, it depends on whether or not the company's are "operationally integrated". This is unlikely. Odds are things will remain quite the same. If they are integated, CMR and ASA guys are screwed. This is the worse case scenario. Skywest can do what they want. At least they will finally be union...

With no integration, all are screwed to some degree. Can you say whipsaw???

XJT did NOTHING when we were sold off from CAL. The capacity purchase agreement was set up as part of the IPO. It did not come afterwards.

This is one more reason why SCOPE even at the small jet level is such an important issue. The XJT scope clause guarantees us fair and equitable seniority integration with ANYONE that buys us and integrates the operations.

Good luck to all of my ALPA bro's at CMR and ASA. I wish you the best.

 

[FL000]

This is from ASA's contract:

D. Successorship
The provisions of this Agreement shall be binding upon any successor or merged company or companies unless or until changed in accordance with the provisions of the Railway Labor Act, as amended.





E. Merger Protection
1. If the Company acquires a carrier whose pilots are represented by the Association, the pilots of the Company and the pilots of the acquired carrier will each operate pursuant to their collective bargaining agreement or terms and conditions of employment with their respective seniority lists until the first day of the first month following:

a. conclusion of negotiation of only such provision(s), if any, as may be necessary to cover such acquired carriers’ flying under this Agreement, and

b. integration of the seniority lists of the respective pilot groups. Such seniority integration shall be governed by the Association’s Merger Policies. There will be no “system flush” as a result of seniority integration.

2. If the Company acquires a carrier whose pilots are not represented by the Association, the pilots of the Company and the pilots of the acquired carrier will each operate pursuant to their own collective bargaining agreement or terms and conditions of employment, with their respective seniority lists until the first day of the first month following:

a. conclusion of negotiation of only such provision(s), if any, as may be necessary to cover such acquired carrier’s flying under this Agreement, and

b. integration of the seniority lists of the respective pilot groups. Such seniority integration will be accomplished in a fair and equitable manner, including, where applicable, negotiations between the Company and the representatives of the pilot groups affected. There will be no “system flush” as a result of seniority integration. In the event of failure to reach a negotiated resolution, the seniority integration dispute will be resolved as provided in Sections 3 and 13 of the Labor Protective Provisions specified by the Civil Aeronautics Board in the Allegheny-Mohawk Merger.

3. Upon the announcement of any transaction that is intended to result in the consolidation of the Company with another carrier that affects the seniority rights of pilots on the Seniority List, the parties will meet promptly to discuss the appropriate steps to be taken consistent with this Agreement, e.g., to negotiate an appropriate fence agreement and to implement a seniority integration process as provided for in paragraph E.1. or E.2., above.

4. During the period between the announcement of any transaction described in paragraph E. and the conclusion of the process as provided therein, no pilot who was on the Seniority List and who had completed his probationary period as of the effective date of this Agreement will be furloughed as a result of such transaction.

F. Any grievance filed by the Association alleging a violation of Section 1 shall, at the Association’s option, bypass the initial steps of the grievance procedure and be submitted, heard and resolved through binding arbitration on an expedited basis directly before the System Board of Adjustment. The dispute shall be heard no later than thirty (30) days following the submission to the System Board of Adjustment and decided no later than sixty (60) days after submission, unless the parties agree otherwise in writing.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

The Comair pilots have already blinked, so they have demonstrated to management that they will probably lower themselves to Skywest standards to save their jobs.

Very ironically stated by somebody who probably PFT'd.

 

[rjcap]

I'm all for it !!

Sell us.

 

[Splert]

Has anyone listened to the call? What was the SkyWest VP's entire remarks?

 

[Medeco]

Yes, Skywest reps were in ATL recently taking in an overall look at the ASA operation.


Then they saw the FA's and promptly left on the first available flight to SLC.

Medeco

 

[SouthTex]

General Lee? Dfw?

What? What about the RJ debacle in DFW? We had to shut that base down it was getting sooo costly. And now our RJs are competing on some routes against Airtran. How has Indy Air done in that arena? Thanks for saving our A$$---we wrote down your worth ($1.9 billion) in the last quarter.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

first of all, didn't you get the memo from management. The reason they closed the dfw base is because DELTA was sucking wind out there. If anything ASA Skywest and Comair helped relieved the pile of money you guys loved to burn out there. General lee, it is not like you to lie about facts of your own airline. Usually your pretty accurate. STAY THAT WAY!

 

[RichO]

It would be a huge step up in the FA arena, neverless, since Skywest is non-union, would they just tell the Skywest pilot group to once again suck it up and integrate all pilot groups via hire date. In return, Skywest pilots would become ALPA and their pay rates would move up to the Comair level. Therefore giving something to all the groups to keep them happy, or am I smoking something here......

 

[SSDD]

My hunch is that it won't be Comair. But with all the wholier than thou $h1t that some of them write on these boards, I'd love to see them become part of one of those "scumbag portfolio carriers" that they so despise.

Swwweeeet.

 

[Mexicankingair]

You can listen to the actual comments at http://www.wsw.com/webcast/rjii05/skyw/ you have to register but its free. The comments come at the end of the presentation. It sounds like the offer for comair/ASA has been on the table for some time. He says that SKYW is NOT really interested in the deal and that they are not interested in growing their 50 seat fleet.

I wouldn't lose to much sleep over this one.....

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I'll bet Brian Bedford would be interested in a large CRJ operator...for the right price...

 

[FDJ2]

He says that SKYW is NOT really interested in the deal and that they are not interested in growing their 50 seat fleet.

When did he say that? I listened to the call and on several occassions he stated that acquisitions were one of the possible avenues for growth after '05 and that Skywest was well positioned to take advantage of an acquisition opportunity. Within the first two minutes of the conference call he stated that consolitadion was a probability in the regional industry. He didn't rule it out at all. While Skywest may prefer internal growth, Skywest is still in the bidding for work game and therefore is in no position to dictate the terms. If DAL puts ASA/CMR up for sale and targets growth opportunities for the purchaser, then the growth will go to whoever acquires one or both of the subsidiaries. Skywest isn't the only game in town, I'm sure CHQ and Mesa are looking closely at it too, and I'm sure that Skywest has a vested interest in not stagnating while its competitors in the fee for departure world gobble up the largest RJ system in the industry.

 

[acarpe3448]

If Shywest has to take the Comair pilots, they will be getting the short end of the stick.

 

[uba757]

Getting the short-end of the stick is seems much better than getting an A$$ H--E like you. If you want finish the second word. Just my opinion. Uba757

 

[doh]

Oh okay, I'll take the hook. Why are they getting the short end of the stick? Please, oh wise one, be specific.

 

[uba757]

FD12

He made those comments on the question and answer segment at the end of the presentatoin. I believe the last 3 minutes. Uba757

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Hey,
Jerry A. has on several occasions said to me "we don't buy airlines, we buy assets" This follows the plan of keeping the longivity of the workforce low.
If this nightmare were to happen expect to be gven a "preferential interview" so you can have the opportunity to start working your way up the payscale from 1st year pay. Remember if this does happen, SKYW couldn't care less if you came over at 1st year pay, there are plenty of starry eyed cfi types who would give their left nut(or ovary) for a chance to fly a shiny(or not) RJ.(see left of this post on the ads, FMS training&Regional Jet standards certification $2995, 800 ALL-ATPS. I hope this does not happen, because there will be no happy campers on either side of the deal.
PBR

 

[av8tor4239]

Talk to some of the Flying Tiger guys and let me know what they say....

When Fed Ex purchased Flying Tigers in 1989, they took the two Senority list, compiled them by Date of Hire, then cut the whole thing into four sections. Those four sections were then cut into 1/2. they Merged 1a with 2a and merged 3a with 4a. Then merged 1b with 2b etc. Some guys made senority, and some guys lost up to 7 years of sr. For example.. a 1978 hire at Tigers had an adjusted hire date of 1985..

That is how it worked..

 

[SSDD]

Jerry A. has said a lot of things...Its one thing to BS for internal consumption, and another thing to act on the national stage. You can not dismatle an operation bigger than your own, and expect to survive.

 

[CheckandSet]

Hey,
Jerry A. has on several occasions said to me "we don't buy airlines, we buy assets" This follows the plan of keeping the longivity of the workforce low.
If this nightmare were to happen expect to be gven a "preferential interview" so you can have the opportunity to start working your way up the payscale from 1st year pay. Remember if this does happen, SKYW couldn't care less if you came over at 1st year pay, there are plenty of starry eyed cfi types who would give their left nut(or ovary) for a chance to fly a shiny(or not) RJ.(see left of this post on the ads, FMS training&Regional Jet standards certification $2995, 800 ALL-ATPS. I hope this does not happen, because there will be no happy campers on either side of the deal.
PBR

I've heared the same thing from Big Jerry myself!