Delta in SEA?

[General Lee]

i would imagine it would be the same type of merger that happened with NW. ratio SLI with regards to type of equipment. actually, it is pretty easy to interpolate the result based on the current DAL/NW SLI results. however, that math problem is above my pay grade!!

i would think that DAL would want AK as a strategic move to protect feed for the Asia ops. AMR could cripple DAL's Asia ops by purchasing AK.

the other option is to grow north/south mainline ops on top of AK's routes which seems HIGHLY unlikely.

the codeshare is nice for now, but wouldn't allow me to sleep at night if i were DAL CEO. i would be really worried about AMR buying AK.

Ratios would be the same format (not exactly the same numbers----now there are 12,434 pilots on one side, and 1505 on the other), but no plug and play with retirements.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

If Delta buys Alaska, would Alaska pilots get retro? Is their any precedence for a company being bought while in contract negotiations past the amendable date?

Doubt it. If you were included in our joint contract, at that time you would receive current rates probably. I doubt retro would be included. That is your deal now.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Clippy... it is what it is. 274 pull and plugs is effectively 548 pilots. Bloch was trying to look forward 10 years and awarded you the benefit of your attrition now. Of course by then Delta's attrition will be in its wave, but Delta guys will be below the FNWA.

If you were a young NWA pilot, you did VERY well. Older NWA pretty much got status quo, with the benefit of being able to shop better equipment and bases (for the most part).

If the economy didn't wipe out my plans B, C and D, I'd have resigned from DAL after the result. However, the economy being what it is, I'm grateful to lose 5 seats and my base to remain actively employed.

Going from a line holder on the 767 to DC9 B does sting a little when you compare it to Delta's stand alone plans. Nothing I can do about it.

Not bitter, but at the same time, I'm not going to lie and make happy talk. It is what it is.

Fins,

You do have to remember that they did have 200 guys go before DCC, and that was not included in the final numbers. That was a bonus for us. Also, I don't really think you will have to go to the DC9 anytime soon. I would think no bump and flush could keep you on the MD88 in ATL if you wanted it. There are probably some guys that would commute to DTW or MSP to stay on the 757 if there was a flood of guys leaving those bases for ATL. I see an FMS in your future at least.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

General, if SD'd comments about moving about half the MD88 fleet North is true, 2001 hires and up will be lucky to stay in Atlanta. The only hope is to bid the DC9 (if it comes South).

 

[clippyrip]

Clippy... it is what it is. 274 pull and plugs is effectively 548 pilots.

That is some fuzzy math.

If you were a young NWA pilot, you did VERY well.

I don't wan't to get back into this again for the eleventy billionth time but let me tell you about how "VERY well" this young FNWA pilot did. I start off at 1% behind, bottom out out at 10% behind, to never fully recover with a finish at 2% behind. So much for relative seniority and the young NWA pilots did "VERY well".

 

[General Lee]

General, if SD'd comments about moving about half the MD88 fleet North is true, 2001 hires and up will be lucky to stay in Atlanta. The only hope is to bid the DC9 (if it comes South).

SD said that? Half? I see us getting some more MD90s and maybe moving them up there, but I doubt we would reduce seat numbers in ATL when competing with Airtran. I know DC9s will go on some of their routes to compete, but the MD88s will still be around in mass. I guess we will have to see. Just remember, after 9-11 a lot of people were disrupted, but they all got back to where they wanted to be in due time. This isn't about DL trying to make your life tougher, it is about being flexible in this industry.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FBN0223]

the codeshare is nice for now, but wouldn't allow me to sleep at night if i were DAL CEO. i would be really worried about AMR buying AK.

I believe that NWA had "first right of refusal" should Alaska put itself up for sale. That's is what I had heard around NATCO, but I never did see the actual documentation. In any case, if such right existed, would it be transferable to Delta?

I do know the RA thinks highly of Alaska. When he was back at NWA, there were hints of him wanting to merge NW and AK. I don't think at the time Alaska was interested.

BTW, Alaska is one great airline. I've ridden the jumpseat several times and the crews are always very cool.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Clippy, are you mid-seniority?

What if you adjust for equipment?

I am NOT saying you are wrong, but your outcome is quite different than the charts I've been looking at, particularly when adjusted for bidding power (equipment & pay).

 

[NuGuy]

Best I can tell, there was NO regard for type of equipment, hence about 60% of the airline is out of position for their seniority on the combined list. I can look for the quotes if you need them, but Bloch broke new ground in using future attrition as a present day equity and effectively disregarded current day status quo.

However, Delta's rather large displacement bid is correcting a lot of this, prior to the Northwest pilots being able to use their 10 year seniority adjustment to shop the Delta positions.

If Alaska got the same integration methodology the NWA pilots got (Bloch liked to see different colors mixed throughout the list) expect quite a few 737 to Whale and 777 bids.

Heyas Fins,

You are correct. Both sides lost on the SLI to some degree.

NWA took the hit in expected attrition. We lost about 1/2 the total number of "pull out" pilots expected in three years in only six months.

The DAL guys, the junior most especially, got killed by the lack of a fence.

Both sides would have immensely benefited from a complete, airtight fence for five years.

And this was between two fairly similar carriers.

The only thing a "ratio by equipment" does, like what the general suggested, is protect the senior at the carrier with "better" positions (they are already in the "good positions"), and provide a windfall to the senior at the "smaller" carrier (who will be able to "bid up" almost immediately).

The junior at the smaller carrier benefits because now they have an improved career pathway.

It's the junior at the larger carrier that gets totally hosed. They get a pile of guys dumped into the "career pathway" that had absolutely zero expectation beyond NB Captain. In this case, you'd have a dilution of the attrition that NWA brought, along with the diluted WB positions that DL brought. Lose/lose/lose for the junior NW/DL guys.

Ironically, the NWA/Republic merger may provide the solution. Dissimilar carriers, so ratio/DOH merger, then a TALL 20 year fence.

Nu

 

[~~~^~~~]

SD said that?....it is about being flexible in this industry.

Bye Bye--General Lee

I think the point was increasing the MD88's flexibility by using it where it could hit both coasts. Our hope is the DC9 would backfill. Have not heard anything about moving the baby bus South.

It's business and Delta probably doesn't like the award either due to the amount of training that is the likely result of all the bidding once airplanes move, but it doesn't matter, it is what it is.

It will be sure be interesting to see what happens with the 757/767/ER fleet, although (like 9/11) it will be the better part of a decade before us junior folks enjoy the QOL we had in the summer of 2008.