Delta Cuts

[Tanker Clown]

Congrats Monster Buck. If I were you I'd look into a back up. Looks like they are just finding out about a recession. Anderson must stick his head in the sand like Bush.

 

[andyd]

I finally get it!!
I have been on these boards for years and always hated the negativity and bickering about whose better, who knows what is really going on.....and I now just figered it out. Its not just people being mean...its jealousy. Not about that someone else is at an airline that you want to be at, but they are at an airline and are HAPPY, HOPEFUL and trying to look at the bright side because they finally got to the pilot job they always wanted and are sick of the negativity and just want to be happy about it. But that is it exactly it, someone else is jealous about them being happy and it makes them feel better to say anything to bring them down. Misery loves company and jealousy rearing its ugly head, two sayings that sum up 95% of this board.

I am one that just got hired at Delta and can't wait to go to class. I pray they still keep going. Its been a long journey to get here, even if I get furloughed day one, I still will show up to class and take the recall years later. Thanks to the people that provide the other 5 percent, the info is helpful.

MB, you hit the proverbial nail on the head! One of the most accurate post's I've ever read on here. Again congrat's on getting on board, everything will work out in the end.....depsite the naysayers and doom and gloomers/sky is falling clowns on FI.

 

[PuffDriver]

I finally get it!!
I have been on these boards for years and always hated the negativity and bickering about whose better, who knows what is really going on.....and I now just figered it out. Its not just people being mean...its jealousy. Not about that someone else is at an airline that you want to be at, but they are at an airline and are HAPPY, HOPEFUL and trying to look at the bright side because they finally got to the pilot job they always wanted and are sick of the negativity and just want to be happy about it. But that is it exactly it, someone else is jealous about them being happy and it makes them feel better to say anything to bring them down. Misery loves company and jealousy rearing its ugly head, two sayings that sum up 95% of this board.

I am one that just got hired at Delta and can't wait to go to class. I pray they still keep going. Its been a long journey to get here, even if I get furloughed day one, I still will show up to class and take the recall years later. Thanks to the people that provide the other 5 percent, the info is helpful.

Nice post. FWIW, Delta runs a leadership class for new captains after they have been on the line for 3-6 months. A class yesterday was told by RA and SD that we would probably hire 100 more this year.

 

[Gunfighter]

If I were a new hire in one of these Delta classes I'd keep my resume updated.

That is some of the best advice I've seen here. Fortunately the new hires already have an updated resume, just add Delta and presto, all done. Updating your resume should be an annual (or more frequent) event, just like life insurance review, retirement fund review, etc. It's just good sense to have a current resume no matter what your seniority or airline.

 

[Smacktard]

So much for the death of the RJ at Delta. 5 pages and I haven't seen a word or retraction from all the 'experts' in here about the small reduction of DCI flying...

 

[ifly4food]

So much for the death of the RJ at Delta. 5 pages and I haven't seen a word or retraction from all the 'experts' in here about the small reduction of DCI flying...

Yep. ASA gaining 4 CRJ-200s. So much for the death of the RJ.

 

[Truckdriver]

Yep. ASA gaining 4 CRJ-200s. So much for the death of the RJ.

Didn't they say they were cutting 25 RJ's? That will be a very small cut compared to what they lopp off when they push this merger through.

 

[Gunfighter]

Didn't they say they were cutting 25 RJ's? That will be a very small cut compared to what they lopp off when they push this merger through.

You are correct. 25 RJs was just a practice swing. Ask the guys in MSP or DTW what the Paul Bunyan axe looks like, because that's the one RA will start swinging at the RJs if this merger happens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bunyan_(lumberjack)

 

[Tanker Clown]

So much for G.L.'s prediction that there wouldn't be any jobs cut in a merger. It was seamless with "little overlap." Man...the merger hasn't even happened and the blood is already starting to flow.

 

[On Your Six]

So much for G.L.'s prediction that there wouldn't be any jobs cut in a merger. It was seamless with "little overlap." Man...the merger hasn't even happened and the blood is already starting to flow.

Have there been any mainline pilot cuts? Not that I know of. The only cuts you should be worried about are the paper cuts you get at your desk.

 

[General Lee]

Have there been any mainline pilot cuts? Not that I know of. The only cuts you should be worried about are the paper cuts you get at your desk.

Oh TankerClown, you just got OWNED..... When is your next pee break? Make sure you file those reports first Gomer Pile...


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Yep. ASA gaining 4 CRJ-200s. So much for the death of the RJ.

Aren't they taking flying from Mesa/Freedom for intra FLA? There will be cuts in other RJ operators probably.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[eaglefly]

So much for G.L.'s prediction that there wouldn't be any jobs cut in a merger. It was seamless with "little overlap." Man...the merger hasn't even happened and the blood is already starting to flow.

Yeah, for NWA guys it was the smart move.

Cowtowing to the greed of the DAL MEC would've put a lot of them on the street. DAL ALPA doesn't want a neutral arbitrator involved becasue they don't want neutrality. A neutral party would have had difficulty with DAL ALPA's paternalistic dictation and might have gone more fair.

Another thought too;

Should shareholders and executives proceed anyway with the merger, it WILL end up in arbitration where the NWA guys have a much better liklihood of a fair intigration then the take-it-or-leave-it ramjob offered by Father DALPA.

Again, good job guys..........you could have been another TWA.

 

[General Lee]

Yeah, for NWA guys it was the smart move.

Cowtowing to the greed of the DAL MEC would've put a lot of them on the street. DAL ALPA doesn't want a neutral arbitrator involved becasue they don't want neutrality. A neutral party would have had difficulty with DAL ALPA's paternalistic dictation and might have gone more fair.

Another thought too;

Should shareholders and executives proceed anyway with the merger, it WILL end up in arbitration where the NWA guys have a much better liklihood of a fair intigration then the take-it-or-leave-it ramjob offered by Father DALPA.

Again, good job guys..........you could have been another TWA.

So genius, why do they keep coming back for more? Explain that? And Arbitration will be good to people who want DOH or something close? Riiiight. Ask the "East Infection" Easties at USAir about that one. Relative seniority ruled, and that is what we want. Sorry, but we are a bigger airline and we won't have the bottom 2,000 pilots all Delta. Nah. So, which AT7 base did you pick? MIA or SJU?

Northwest pilots want merger with Delta


Minneapolis / St. Paul Business Journal - by Carissa Wyant Staff Writer

Union leaders for Northwest Airlines pilots are hoping to keep a merger deal between the carrier and Delta Air Lines alive, according toa report in the Star Tribune.
Atlanta-based Delta (NYSE: DAL) has been in merger talks with Eagan-based Northwest Airlines Corp. (NYSE: NWA), though negotiations have stumbled in recent weeks over the issue of integrating pilot seniority lists.
Union officials for Northwest pilots sent a memo to pilots late Tuesday, saying that "expedited arbitration" could be a way to bring about a merger, the Star Tribune reported.
Tuesday, the Business Journal reported that Delta Air Lines Inc., in an effort to stave off rising fuel costs from hurting business, will cut up to 2,000 jobs , reduce domestic flights, and add more international routes.
Delta also said Tuesday it will try to stay open to the idea of merging with another airline.

[email protected] | (612) 288-2108




Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PuffDriver]

Yeah, for NWA guys it was the smart move.

Cowtowing to the greed of the DAL MEC would've put a lot of them on the street. DAL ALPA doesn't want a neutral arbitrator involved becasue they don't want neutrality. A neutral party would have had difficulty with DAL ALPA's paternalistic dictation and might have gone more fair.

Another thought too;

Should shareholders and executives proceed anyway with the merger, it WILL end up in arbitration where the NWA guys have a much better liklihood of a fair intigration then the take-it-or-leave-it ramjob offered by Father DALPA.

Again, good job guys..........you could have been another TWA.

Stick to your little EMB son. Delta doesn't want arbitration as it will seal the deal, NWA will get creamed in arbitration to the likes of the very list Delta is proposing, and there will be another USAPA on our hands--after the companies have committed to the merger.

The greed of the Delta MEC is simply explained:

NWA pilots make significantly less money for similar equipment and in less gauge equipment.

The NWA pilots would get much larger raises

The NWA pilots get much better work rules

The NWA pilots get a larger increase in their DC

The NWA pilots keep their hard frozen DB

The NWA pilots get MORE access than DALs increased access to wide body flying

The DAL pilots get smaller raises

The DAL pilots gain little or no work rules

The DAL pilots get less of an increase in DC

The DAL pilots have no DB

The DAL pilots get less greater access to wide body flying



Meanwhile, the DAL MEC proposes a relative seniority list, which an arbitrator recently favored, in order to keep the career expectations on track. Yeah their greedy all right. Whatever. It's moot. Both sides have said unacceptable, and that's that. Problem is that NWA keeps calling, and asking where we have been.

 

[DTW320]

Delta doesn't want arbitration as it will seal the deal, NWA will get creamed in arbitration to the likes of the very list Delta is proposing

Thanks Puff. Couldn't have said it better. There you have it folks....from the lips of a DAL pilot: NWA pilots would be "creamed" by the SLI proposed by DALPA.

And we should have fallen all over ourselves to sign.....riiiiiiightttt...

DTW320
Frozen A plan + 19% Targeted DC

 

[PuffDriver]

Thanks Puff. Couldn't have said it better. There you have it folks....from the lips of a DAL pilot: NWA pilots would be "creamed" by the SLI proposed by DALPA.

And we should have fallen all over ourselves to sign.....riiiiiiightttt...

DTW320
Frozen A plan + 19% Targeted DC

No doubt, you are a junior NWA pilot. Otherwise, you may have actually read what I wrote.

The NWA pilots get the benefits of this merger in the form of retained DB, a greater increase in DC, more wide body flying, greater increases in pay, greater strides in work rules. In exchange, the NWA pilots do not get DOH.

In arbitration, the deal is sealed. Recent arbitration results favor the position of the Delta pilots.

Once agreed in binding arbitration, the companies agree to merge.

If we are left with a USAir type of integration, what is to stop the NWA pilots from pulling a USAPA type play when the arbitration does not go their way, thus tubing the new company before it hardly gets off of the ground.

In short, you would lose in arbitration. The DAL MEC as well as Delta fears that you will pull a USAPA and doom the company after it is already committed to the merger.

You don't get it both ways. You get more pay, more retirement, better work rules, better bases, more wide bodies, and a better financial career under the Delta pilots SLI. You MEC has chosen the unknown. Yet they keep calling "ugly girl" to see if she wants to dance. Maybe even though she is ugly, she is good in bed, which is what it is really all about anyway.

I had the same A plan, which is nothing more than a promise to pay. I chose the known quantity, and got my A plan in my hot little hands.

 

[DTW320]

No doubt, you are a junior NWA pilot. Think Again PuffDaddy!Otherwise, you may have actually read what I wrote. Oh, I certainly did read it. I loved the part where you said NWA pilots would get the Delta SLI in arbitration and that it = getting creamed.

The NWA pilots get the benefits of this merger in the form of retained DB,Doesn't favor us....you got a better deal in the BK claim & $650m note.....according to you anyway. a greater increase in DC,I'm getting 19% now and many others are getting more...do I get to keep that at DAL? more wide body flying,wow...767300ER's that have fewer seats than our 330's and even our 757-300's and pay....You guessed it! 10% more than our 757....just like every other a/c comparison...BFD greater increases in pay, greater strides in work rules. In exchange, the NWA pilots do not get DOH.Never asked for/suggested DOH. You should really try checking some facts first.

In arbitration, the deal is sealed. Recent arbitration results favor the position of the Delta pilots.Then why is Moak so scared of it? Should be a slam dunk for you.

Once agreed in binding arbitration, the companies agree to merge.

If we are left with a USAir type of integration, what is to stop the NWA pilots from pulling a USAPA type play when the arbitration does not go their way, thus tubing the new company before it hardly gets off of the ground. You're really reaching now, but what else can you do?

In short, you would lose in arbitration. The DAL MEC as well as Delta fears that you will pull a USAPA and doom the company after it is already committed to the merger. You should wish that pilots have that kind of control over a Fortune 100 company.

You don't get it both ways.Oooh, sounds familar.. You get more pay, more retirement, better work rules, better bases, more wide bodies, and a better financial career under the Delta pilots SLI. You MEC has chosen the unknown. No, the unknown is how long the $ enhancements would last.Probably as long as the furlough protection agreed to by both sides lasted. The KNOWN is that the lousy seniority # that the DAL SLI yields would be forever. Yet they keep calling "ugly girl" to see if she wants to dance. Maybe even though she is ugly, she is good in bed, which is what it is really all about anyway. OK PuffDaddy, I admit it, you lost me there. Are we talking about your personal life or what?

I had the same A plan, which is nothing more than a promise to pay. I chose the known quantity, and got my A plan in my hot little hands.Precisely!!So please tell me why you Deltoids keep saying that you need/deserve some SLI credit for the fact that we still have our pensions and you don't. Talk about how you can't have it both ways! I've said it before and never got an answer: Which is it? Were you made whole and then some by the claim sale and $650m note or were you screwed and need SLI compensation for it? The deltoids here are saying both things. Seems disingenuous to say the least.

Seeya Puffy

 

[scarlet]

Told you last Saturday the cuts were coming....before released...

BK court coming again, for alot of airlines .. just hold on.....dam* my source is good.....

 

[f9driver]

General, you will still be spouting "International" as you go "glub, glub, glub" down for the third time. Int'l has NOT saved your bacon yet and as a former Pan Amer, I can assure you, it will probably won't.
This is a very tenuous theory you often repeat. Where are the results? Running from domestic routes and SWA is not a viable business plan. Besides, SWA has some problems of their own. ggg.

 

[Tanker Clown]

I thought things worked out well for Pan Am.....

 

[General Lee]

General, you will still be spouting "International" as you go "glub, glub, glub" down for the third time. Int'l has NOT saved your bacon yet and as a former Pan Amer, I can assure you, it will probably won't.
This is a very tenuous theory you often repeat. Where are the results? Running from domestic routes and SWA is not a viable business plan. Besides, SWA has some problems of their own. ggg.

Pan Am had no feed at the end, which really did end their run. You know that. You can't only be an INTL carrier in the US, thanks to better funded INTL airlines that don't depend on the US Dollar. These days, it is better to have a mix of flying, to bring in those INTL currencies that can save your bacon. Most of our passengers on INTL flights are foreigners, capitalizing on the weaker dollar, and they do buy their tickets in foreign currancies that day by day hold their value over the dollar. That can help.

I like how you assert your point: "as a former Pan Amer, I can ASSURE YOU, it will PROBABLY won't." Now, I don't really know what that actually means, but if you are sure of something, you don't add a "probably" to the end of it.

As far as domestic goes, Southwest is lucky that it has it's hedges. If it did not, it would be making more drastic cuts, like other domestic only airlines, like Frontier. Today they completed the sale of 4 Airbus planes to a Russian airline. Domestic only airlines, without huge hedges, really do need a mix of INTL and DOM flying to bring home the bacon. I am not saying we aren't selling our planes (I think it said temporarily parking), but we have the ability to bring in a bit more revenue and move planes to places that can have a chance and bringing in better yeilds. Some airlines, like NWA, do not have the ability to do that thanks to having mostly older DC9s in the domestic fleet. We have a lot of 757s and 767s used in domestic flying that can go eleswhere if needed thanks to the range ability.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tanker Clown]

Pan Am had no feed at the end, which really did end their run. You know that. You can't only be an INTL carrier in the US, thanks to better funded INTL airlines that don't depend on the US Dollar. These days, it is better to have a mix of flying, to bring in those INTL currencies that can save your bacon. Most of our passengers on INTL flights are foreigners, capitalizing on the weaker dollar, and they do buy their tickets in foreign currancies that day by day hold their value over the dollar. That can help.

I like how you assert your point: "as a former Pan Amer, I can ASSURE YOU, it will PROBABLY won't." Now, I don't really know what that actually means, but if you are sure of something, you don't add a "probably" to the end of it.

As far as domestic goes, Southwest is lucky that it has it's hedges. If it did not, it would be making more drastic cuts, like other domestic only airlines, like Frontier. Today they completed the sale of 4 Airbus planes to a Russian airline. Domestic only airlines, without huge hedges, really do need a mix of INTL and DOM flying to bring home the bacon.


Bye Bye--General Lee

That international plan sure didn't help Delta from losing money last quarter. After watching Delta for the last few years though, I kinda think that losing money is their business plan. And, when you can't figure out how to increase revenue, get concessions from the employee groups.

 

[General Lee]

Told you last Saturday the cuts were coming....before released...

BK court coming again, for alot of airlines .. just hold on.....dam* my source is good.....

BK court coming AGAIN? Really? If the ones who went through BK did not clean their cobbwebs correctly, then maybe. Most of the ones who went through BK have an advantage over the ones who did not. One airline in particular MIGHT fall into the category that you are talking about, but your prognostications are basic. Someone will win the Superbowl next year too.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tanker Clown]

BK court coming AGAIN? Really? If the ones who went through BK did not clean their cobbwebs correctly, then maybe. Most of the ones who went through BK have an advantage over the ones who did not. One airline in particular MIGHT fall into the category that you are talking about, but your prognostications are basic. Someone will win the Superbowl next year too.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Keep posting sh!tty numbers like you did last quarter and you guys will be right back in Ch 11. How many quarters like that can you have before you have to cry "uncle?"

 

[PuffDriver]

The NWA pilots get the benefits of this merger in the form of retained DB,Doesn't favor us....you got a better deal in the BK claim & $650m note.....according to you anyway.


How exciting. First, let's agree that the deal is dead and the point is moot. The incentives are off of the table as far as I've been told. Fact. You have a DB. Fact, we don't. We are not going to be brought up to par with your DB. As a result, we are more senior for our age. The DB is a wash with our retirements.


I'm getting 19% now and many others are getting more...do I get to keep that at DAL?

To target you to 50% FAE? That means that you are getting more while somebody else junior to you is getting less. That B scale mentality has been fought and beaten at DAL. You would have been merging with a group that takes care of the whole list.

Here is a question, do you get to keep all of that in BK?

more wide body flying,wow...767300ER's that have fewer seats than our 330's and even our 757-300's and pay....You guessed it! 10% more than our 757....just like every other a/c comparison

You like to try and minimize this, but there are 28 more international aircraft in our fleet, and our pay and work rules are better. Cloud it how you like in order to attempt to avoid it.

BFD greater increases in pay, greater strides in work rules.


Yeah, BFD. Whatever. It's all about money and quality of life in this biz. Let's just gloss over that 19% raise, and the immeasurable betterment of work rules. BFD. Right

In exchange, the NWA pilots do not get DOH.Never asked for/suggested DOH. You should really try checking some facts first.


Correct. You tried for worse than DOH. I was being nice.

Then why is Moak so scared of it? Should be a slam dunk for you.

Not scared of it. Buying time. Negotiating position of the Delta pilots will only get better as time goes on.


No, the unknown is how long the $ enhancements would last.Probably as long as the furlough protection agreed to by both sides lasted. The KNOWN is that the lousy seniority # that the DAL SLI yields would be forever.

Let me put it to you this way. If the incentives would be removed from the combined carrier, it would have been an environment which will treat you much worse as a stand alone entity. What else is KNOWN is that every NWA pilot would have been better off financially with a Delta implemented seniority list. The numbers don't lie.

This is such a bad deal for you. Why does the NWA MEC chase us so? Can't seem to get a good answer for that one.

 

[JoeMerchant]

This is like PID II.....who's got the popcorn.......

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Serious question. I keep hearing how superior your workrules and contract is, could you guys please give some examples/comparisons for us?? I also keep hearing about the 30% pay raises we would have gotton, but maybe my math is wrong. I make 139/hr as a 320 capt. and your 737ng pays 154/hr according to apc. Now that is an 11% raise. Now as far as the raises going forward, those were to be given to all, not just the nw pilots. I have not seen any details of what the combined contract would have looked like. The good things we have are bstg(bid scheduled trip guarantee) basically get paid for the line you bid regardless xcelations, our sick leave cap of 1200 hrs(lots of us have more than that) our call in honest(commuter policy) reserve guarantee of 75 hours. These are just some off the top of my head. Don't get me wrong, lots not to like but I bet the same is true at all airlines(even before our little trip thru ch11) So, if anyone has any comparisons btw our contracts that show how 3rd world our contract is to deltas please tell.

The NWA pilots get the benefits of this merger in the form of retained DB,Doesn't favor us....you got a better deal in the BK claim & $650m note.....according to you anyway.


How exciting. First, let's agree that the deal is dead and the point is moot. The incentives are off of the table as far as I've been told. Fact. You have a DB. Fact, we don't. We are not going to be brought up to par with your DB. As a result, we are more senior for our age. The DB is a wash with our retirements.


I'm getting 19% now and many others are getting more...do I get to keep that at DAL?

To target you to 50% FAE? That means that you are getting more while somebody else junior to you is getting less. That B scale mentality has been fought and beaten at DAL. You would have been merging with a group that takes care of the whole list.

Here is a question, do you get to keep all of that in BK?

more wide body flying,wow...767300ER's that have fewer seats than our 330's and even our 757-300's and pay....You guessed it! 10% more than our 757....just like every other a/c comparison

You like to try and minimize this, but there are 28 more international aircraft in our fleet, and our pay and work rules are better. Cloud it how you like in order to attempt to avoid it.

BFD greater increases in pay, greater strides in work rules.


Yeah, BFD. Whatever. It's all about money and quality of life in this biz. Let's just gloss over that 19% raise, and the immeasurable betterment of work rules. BFD. Right

In exchange, the NWA pilots do not get DOH.Never asked for/suggested DOH. You should really try checking some facts first.


Correct. You tried for worse than DOH. I was being nice.

Then why is Moak so scared of it? Should be a slam dunk for you.

Not scared of it. Buying time. Negotiating position of the Delta pilots will only get better as time goes on.


No, the unknown is how long the $ enhancements would last.Probably as long as the furlough protection agreed to by both sides lasted. The KNOWN is that the lousy seniority # that the DAL SLI yields would be forever.

Let me put it to you this way. If the incentives would be removed from the combined carrier, it would have been an environment which will treat you much worse as a stand alone entity. What else is KNOWN is that every NWA pilot would have been better off financially with a Delta implemented seniority list. The numbers don't lie.

This is such a bad deal for you. Why does the NWA MEC chase us so? Can't seem to get a good answer for that one.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

If you work for Jet Blue, I seriously doubt you heard that at your indoc.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

They told us we would be "hundredaires".

Still waiting on that to work out for me.

 

[DTW320]

The NWA pilots get the benefits of this merger in the form of retained DB,Doesn't favor us....you got a better deal in the BK claim & $650m note.....according to you anyway.


How exciting. First, let's agree that the deal is dead and the point is moot. No, first we would have to agree that you have never explained the blatant duplicity of your position on your DB plan vs your claim sale/$650m note.The incentives are off of the table as far as I've been told. Fact. You have a DB. Fact, we don't. Fact: You and every other deltoid here says your replacement retirement bennies have /will exceed the value of the lost DB, yet you want some kind of credit anyway!We are not going to be brought up to par with your DB.Right...you're going to exceed it if the posts here are to be believed. As a result, we are more senior for our age. The DB is a wash with our retirements.


I'm getting 19% now and many others are getting more...do I get to keep that at DAL?

To target you to 50% FAE? That means that you are getting more while somebody else junior to you is getting less. That B scale mentality has been fought and beaten at DAL. You would have been merging with a group that takes care of the whole list.Wow. Pretty stunning lack of understanding there dude...junior/senior to me does not solely determine if they get more or less% than me. Its a combo of seniority/age and age at DOH. Someone junior to me but the same age actually gets more % than me because he has a smaller A fund. Get it? The folks getting 0% are the really senior folks who's frozen A-plan already exceed 50% FAE.Finally, please explain how everyone being equally brought to 50% FAE represents a Bscale to you?!?!

Here is a question, do you get to keep all of that in BK? The DC Plan? You bet your Ass we do. It's in the 401k. Fully vested in our own accounts from day 1.

more wide body flying,wow...767300ER's that have fewer seats than our 330's and even our 757-300's and pay....You guessed it! 10% more than our 757....just like every other a/c comparison

You like to try and minimize this, but there are 28 more international aircraft in our fleet, and our pay and work rules are better. Cloud it how you like in order to attempt to avoid it.

BFD greater increases in pay, greater strides in work rules.


Yeah, BFD. Whatever. It's all about money and quality of life in this biz. Let's just gloss over that 19% raise, and the immeasurable betterment of work rules. BFD. Right. It's all about money....right up until the announcement of furloughs and opening of contracts. Meanwhile the seniority is forever. Simple concept that you guys can't seem to understand. And, as others have said, please provide the "secret details of these vastly greater work rules. I have a copy of both contracts. Do you?

In exchange, the NWA pilots do not get DOH.Never asked for/suggested DOH. You should really try checking some facts first.


Correct. You tried for worse than DOH. I was being nice. Total BS and if you believe THAT, then it seriously calls into question any credibility you had.

Then why is Moak so scared of it? Should be a slam dunk for you.

Not scared of it. Buying time. Negotiating position of the Delta pilots will only get better as time goes on. Riiiiight....have you seen your financial/debt numbers? How about your cash on hand as a multiple of monthly expenses?


No, the unknown is how long the $ enhancements would last.Probably as long as the furlough protection agreed to by both sides lasted. The KNOWN is that the lousy seniority # that the DAL SLI yields would be forever.

Let me put it to you this way. If the incentives would be removed from the combined carrier, it would have been an environment which will treat you much worse as a stand alone entity. What else is KNOWN is that every NWA pilot would have been better off financially with a Delta implemented seniority list. The numbers don't lie. No, but apparently DALPA does. Why, oh why, do you guys always go back to money and never want to talk about seniority? Hmmmm?

This is such a bad deal for you. Why does the NWA MEC chase us so? Can't seem to get a good answer for that one.Because it hasn't happened. Maybe you should actually read our MEC's take on this. If a deal is inevitable, the 2 sides should keep talking. That's all we have said. Nothing being chased by anyone. Call your Rep and find out.

Take Care Puffy.