Delta Connection Pilots - Shot Across The Bow

[ASACAPT]

Here is the latest from the pilots at ASA and Comair. This is the link from the ASA/Comair add in today's (Thursday 02/01) USA Today.

Standby for more in other media venues.

http://www.dcipilots.com/

 

[thebest]

How again does alpa help?

 

[Hawkster54]

Good for them! The general public needs to know how little the pilots make. It may hurt their sex lives a bit, but in the long run mgmt may be forced to deal with the gen. public's fear of flying. It's a long shot, but it's a step in the right direction.

 

[suupah]

we are doing this all wrong. we need the poor bastard CFI's to refuse to take the jobs. Of course the problem with taht is that 19k a y ear is a huge pay raise for the average starving cfi

 

[sweptback]

Here's a copy of the ad that ran today. With all the cancellations today in Atlanta it looks like it was timed well!

http://dcipilots.com/comair_USA_Today.htm

 

[STREAKS]

we are doing this all wrong. we need the poor bastard CFI's to refuse to take the jobs. Of course the problem with taht is that 19k a y ear is a huge pay raise for the average starving cfi

I made more money instructing compared to my first job (regional). Shame on me indeed! Oh and it wasn't 19K it was more like 12K the first year.

Yeah, everyone has to start somewhere, I just didn't have the boobs or the proper contacts that would get me a bizjet job with 400 hours back in 2000.
Nor did I have the boobs/contacts in 2002 with 2000 hours. So off to the regionals I went. I'm sure many of you were/are in the same position.

 

[1st Overnite]

Great ad in USA Today. I hope things work out for the best for you guys.

It is amazing how people think all pilots make big $$$$. Most don't realize how little you make starting out.

 

[blueridge71]

Good for them! The general public needs to know how little the pilots make.

Making them aware is one thing. Making them care is another.

 

[SSDD]

The public doesn't care. Cheap fares is all they're concerned with. I'll bet there will be a few people who'll come to the conclusion that if they were paid less, then maybe DL could offer even cheaper fares.

 

[1st Overnite]

The public doesn't care. Cheap fares is all they're concerned with. I'll bet there will be a few people who'll come to the conclusion that if they were paid less, then maybe DL could offer even cheaper fares

Sad, but probably true.

 

[V-1]

Pilot pay was but a small part of the message conveyed by this ad. The more powerful and prominent message was this:

"If you buy a ticket on Delta, you're running a higher than normal risk of flight cancellation due to lack of crewmembers."

Sure, ticket price is a large factor in a purchase for most people. I suggest that actually getting where you're buying the ticket to is probably a higher priority. This message plants the seed of an idea to sprout during the buying decision that Delta may not be the most reliable option for travel.

I also belive the ad does a great job shining a spotlight on the fact that despite all the years and effort Delta has made to create a seamless brand experience, the reality is not what the average customer perceives. Most passengers would likely be surprised to learn that they're not flying on a "Delta" aircraft, with "Delta" pilots, after all.

I submit that the next ad produced should show an Ipod-wearing, backpack toting, plywood "sleeping board" carrying, zit-faced, eighteen-year-old "pilot mill" graduate with 500 hours total time grinning from ear to ear.

The caption will read:

"Last week I was learning to fly this." (holding up picture of Cessna 172)

"Now I'm flying your family and friends around for Delta Airlines in that! It's so cool!" (points to CRJ in background).

 

[suupah]

well in the end most of our bargaining power is a matter of supply and demand. this summer when the hiring crunch hits and there just aren't many pilots around the ball will finally be in our court

 

[flyer172r]

well in the end most of our bargaining power is a matter of supply and demand. this summer when the hiring crunch hits and there just aren't many pilots around the ball will finally be in our court

No, it won't. All it will mean is that the airlines will lower their minimums even lower than they already are.

 

[CFIT]

Why would the public give a damn about the lack of pilots or 19K a year?

How ALPA thinks this type of stuff helps is beyond me.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

Sure the flying public may be unaware of the wages of first officers in the regionals, but they could care less as long as they get a cheap ticket.

The only way the public will care is if their flights are cancelled or delayed. No picketing, full page ads, or any other propaganda will work.

I don't understand how other unions (teachers, bus drivers, electricians) can call for immediate work stopages and are able to have their demands evaluated. If we were to try that it would be "illegal".

WTF ALPA?

 

[relief tube]

good ad, except the 30% reference.

either say 30% of delta connection..or come up with the percentage of all delta flights if thats what you're going to say (think it'd be somewhere around 16%)

a little misleading..an asterisk cheapens up the effect

 

[sweptback]

good ad, except the 30% reference.

either say 30% of delta connection..or come up with the percentage of all delta flights if thats what you're going to say (think it'd be somewhere around 16%)

a little misleading..an asterisk cheapens up the effect

Um, it is 30% of Delta block hours. That's the point.

 

[ReverseSensing]

I don't understand how other unions (teachers, bus drivers, electricians) can call for immediate work stopages and are able to have their demands evaluated. If we were to try that it would be "illegal".

WTF ALPA?

I'm assuming this is a rhetorical question, and that you do understand the difference: Railway Labor Act.

Teachers', bus drivers' and electricians' contracts are NOT subject to it.

If we really wanted to have leverage as unionized pilots, we'd be trying to get rid of the RLA. As long as we're subject to it, and management has the 1113C process to exploit while in bankruptcy, management isn't afraid of our collective will because we are effectively emasculated.

Course, without the RLA, we'd be playing with a loaded gun, and we'd better know how to handle it.

 

[geardown]

http://www.local12.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=14923


Stories like this may help the public get a little educated. ALPA is certainly behind it.

 

[pilotnbr1]

Even if the public doesn't care at least they will be educated enough to not cosign a 100k plus loan for their pilot wannabe kid. The more potential pilots steer clear of this career could potentially be good for us and give us some real leverage.

 

[imacdog]

good ad, except the 30% reference.

either say 30% of delta connection..or come up with the percentage of all delta flights if thats what you're going to say (think it'd be somewhere around 16%)

a little misleading..an asterisk cheapens up the effect

If you had read the asterisk at the bottom you could wouldn't have felt misled. Where did you get 16% from?

 

[suupah]

http://www.local12.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=14923


Stories like this may help the public get a little educated. ALPA is certainly behind it.

what struck me is the vast difference between the top earners and the bottom earners. that gap should be narrowed.

22000-108000 per year. shouldn't that be more like 45-75 per year?

 

[HelloNewman]

lol I was laughing my tail off when I saw that ad in the USA TODAY. What a waste of time. Each and every one of us has volunatrily accepted the terms we work under, except comair and mesaba. So that is what your dues go to? "Educating" the public on "how little" we make when we all voluntarily accept the jobs? Basically its saying yea we accepted the job but now we are complaining. All that shows is that decisions were not thought out very carefully.

The ad also left out what the pay scales are after the first year. If I was an ALPA member i would be pissed off. A full page ad in the usa today is not cheap. What a waste of your dues. Sorry guys but thats many thousands of dollars that could have been used somewhere else. You should all be very upset about this. Oh ya btw no thanks on ALPA at SkyWest.

 

[AV8700]

what struck me is the vast difference between the top earners and the bottom earners. that gap should be narrowed.

22000-108000 per year. shouldn't that be more like 45-75 per year?

No, but I would like to know how many of those top earners (which the company will point out) are management pilots.

 

[AV8700]

lol I was laughing my tail off when I saw that ad in the USA TODAY. What a waste of time. Each and every one of us has volunatrily accepted the terms we work under, except comair and mesaba. So that is what your dues go to? "Educating" the public on "how little" we make when we all voluntarily accept the jobs? Basically its saying yea we accepted the job but now we are complaining. All that shows is that decisions were not thought out very carefully.

The ad also left out what the pay scales are after the first year. If I was an ALPA member i would be pissed off. A full page ad in the usa today is not cheap. What a waste of your dues. Sorry guys but thats many thousands of dollars that could have been used somewhere else. You should all be very upset about this. Oh ya btw no thanks on ALPA at SkyWest.

Tell us Newman. What should a 50, 70 and 90 Captain make? Say he/she is at 8 years.

 

[G2T]

lol I was laughing my tail off when I saw that ad in the USA TODAY. What a waste of time. Each and every one of us has volunatrily accepted the terms we work under, except comair and mesaba. So that is what your dues go to? "Educating" the public on "how little" we make when we all voluntarily accept the jobs? Basically its saying yea we accepted the job but now we are complaining. All that shows is that decisions were not thought out very carefully.

The ad also left out what the pay scales are after the first year. If I was an ALPA member i would be pissed off. A full page ad in the usa today is not cheap. What a waste of your dues. Sorry guys but thats many thousands of dollars that could have been used somewhere else. You should all be very upset about this. Oh ya btw no thanks on ALPA at SkyWest.

This is one of the most ignorant posts I've read in a long time. You don't think the regional airlines have been affected by the troubles of their mainline parents? A majority of places have taken big hits on payrates/workrules during this last downswing in the industry. Just because you weren't there to see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[FDJ2]

If we really wanted to have leverage as unionized pilots, we'd be trying to get rid of the RLA. As long as we're subject to it, and management has the 1113C process to exploit while in bankruptcy, management isn't afraid of our collective will because we are effectively emasculated.

That requires political action. Support the ALPA-PAC.

 

[goodto50meters]

lol I was laughing my tail off when I saw that ad in the USA TODAY. What a waste of time. Each and every one of us has volunatrily accepted the terms we work under, except comair and mesaba. So that is what your dues go to? "Educating" the public on "how little" we make when we all voluntarily accept the jobs? Basically its saying yea we accepted the job but now we are complaining. All that shows is that decisions were not thought out very carefully.

The ad also left out what the pay scales are after the first year. If I was an ALPA member i would be pissed off. A full page ad in the usa today is not cheap. What a waste of your dues. Sorry guys but thats many thousands of dollars that could have been used somewhere else. You should all be very upset about this. Oh ya btw no thanks on ALPA at SkyWest.

Get out of the breakroom and go back to your office Brad.

 

[HelloNewman]

Tell us Newman. What should a 50, 70 and 90 Captain make? Say he/she is at 8 years.

That decision is up to each individual pilot group. I can assure you that at SkyWest we think we do just fine. Look at APC for our pay rates and there is your answer. Well for our pilot group anyway. You see each pilot group votes in what they think is fair. If the pilot group thinks it is a fair wage then that is what they should make. Remember work rules, etc all come into play besides a payrate. You have to think outside of the box for these issues.

 

[HelloNewman]

That requires political action. Support the ALPA-PAC.

Wow that says a lot right there. Basically you have to pay even more money to get something done. Sign me up, NOT!