Delta Connection Flying - 100 Aircraft Reduction

[Speedtape]

IF General was KING, instead of General: Suppose DALPA recaptured all RJ flying through the General's, I mean King's royal decree! Would costs go down? NO, in the short and the long run, costs would go UP^^^^^^! Any 5th grader knows that!

Under the same scenario, would DALPA's leverage to improve Heavy Jet pay and rates increase with all those RJ and RJ replacement pilots on the list? Does it present a diluted dilema in negotiation efforts and leverage?

Does it work better the way it is today, versus the pipe dream?

From a non-complexed observation and somewhat objective perspective: It is far better for the Mainline Pilots to allow, but control, outsourcing through proper scope relief so their Company can maximize revenue and profits in that arena. This creates better financial opportunities in negotiating higher pay rates and benefits for the Mainline Heavy and Big airplane pilot working agreement. This strategy makes the DALPA pilots more money in the long run. It also makes them defacto business partners with Management. Proper and controlled Scope Relief is the equivalent of selling off small franchise rights or small licensing agreements. It creates far more opportunity to move Mainline large aircraft pay and benefits ^^^^^Up!

Think about it!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The DC-9-3xs I flew usually burned about 3.5 per hour, perside, at FL 350 (with -9 engines).
The DC-9-34F I have been flying lately (-17 engines) burns 4.0 per hour, per side at FL 270/280 (non-RVSM).

 

[asayankee]

Hi!

The DC-9-3xs I flew usually burned about 3.5 per hour, perside, at FL 350 (with -9 engines).
The DC-9-34F I have been flying lately (-17 engines) burns 4.0 per hour, per side at FL 270/280 (non-RVSM).

A CRJ900 burns about 1700-1800 pph per side in the mid/high 30's doing Mach .80

 

[JumpersAway]

We see it the same way.

As for you last:
It I am misguided, then I am glad to hear that. I know who is where in the pecking order. My only question is do they desire to move on? At that level that question needs to be raised by those that vote for their reps. Maybe it does not matter but it did to me.

Once again, not all ATL pilots from DAL are on the same mind. The only difference in you and me is I am here and you are there. I had 10 years there, and enjoyed it. There is a lot that needs fixing, but that is not a pilot issue. That is a corporate issue.

The reasons that I left besides the obvious were simple. I saw the ASA DCI FFD Air Service agreement and knew for a fact that a lot was going to change in the next 10 years. Most of it would not be good. The regional explosion had a good run, but I saw the pendulum swinging the other way.

Good or bad, one thing you guys need to realize is that D-ALPA continually brings in the DCI MEC's to discuss strategy. IMHO, that is one of LM's strongest suits. I may not like the means or some of the ideas, but he understand that to restore the profession it cannot be a mainline exclusive campaign. It take everyone, you, me, them and us.

What I want is a pipe dream, and realize that. I want what you state. A Delta pilot flying every Delta coded flight. I would further like to see all pilots flying Delta passengers brought in to the fold. I know reality would dictate that a pre-nup would have to be agreed to prior to a push for this. I also know that the DCI carriers involved would need to agree on a seniority agreement before it came to mainline to work on the DCI mainline agreement*. I know just how tall of an order that is. (Pref-ALPA carriers only, but that is me)

The only solution is with a unified front, and I know that includes you. It has not worked the other way, has it? Does that clear up my position?


**CRJ567, I get tired saying this stuff to you.

I am also a realist and realize that the reality is that the easiest solution is to keep the cost up at DCI in an effort to starve the motivation for said flying. In that process the flying would return to mainline. As many say over here. We have the rates for the jets.

It has also been rumored that Mesaba's 900 rates will be more than those that are in our Current PWA. What do you think that means?

* It has been argued that the SLI of DCI would have to be All WO carriers or all DCI ALPA carriers for it to gain traction, and that we could not do it one by one.

ACL- wisely said. I agree with you that for our best strategy to work, the mainline pilots and DCI pilots would need to work together in towards an unprecedented measure. However, I'm afraid that our own self established social classes prohibit this- i.e. one unified brand of flying. Simple truth is that anything less than a staple or merge is a complete waste of time, effort, resources, and most of all, money. Unfortunately, all I can do is stand here and shake my head at the current state of mainline/regional cooperation towards bettering this career.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Jumpers. I am all for looking at a staple/merge again. I think it will serve us wisely. Convince the correct people to dump the bad blood.

 

[CFIT]

ACL65, while it's all a good idea, it's somewhat unrealistic. The possibility of the legacy Delta ALPA head and the DCI combined ALPA head, and SkyWest Pres coming to an agreement would be very unlikely, management would likely stir pot just enough to have all of us turn against each other.

ALPA doesn't care unless dues income were to drop.

The FFD snenario will just change the rules, management, it seems, is always a step ahead, ALPA is just reactionary. Sad but true.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I bet that SKW would become ALPA real quick if it meant a DAL number. (Heck even a flow through agreement)

 

[i fly boxes]

I bet that SKW would become ALPA real quick if it meant a DAL number. (Heck even a flow through agreement)

ACL - how would you propose a flow through with regionals that fly for more than just Delta?

 

[wms]

Flow through will not happen. There has never been a good one.

 

[OneBadLT123]

I just want to give a shout out to all my Saab friends. As I look at the fleet slowly being axed 15 at a time, I see the seniority list getting shorter and shorter. Lots of good friends flying/flew the Saabs and I wish them all the best.

Good luck guys!

 

[Blade Runner]

Flow through will not happen. There has never been a good one.

The XJ flow through is much better than most.

 

[Superpilot92]

Flow through will not happen. There has never been a good one.

Mesaba started to flow guys up to NWA when we were hiring, then the merger happened. We're about to see the flow start working in the upward movement in the next 6-12 months.

 

[JumpersAway]

Flow through will not happen. There has never been a good one.

Agreed- no flow through intrest here.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I do not like flows. The rest longevity, kind of work on the way up and never work on the way down. AMR is proving that they have issues working on the way up to. They are a poor substitute for unity.

The correct answer is the most difficult to achieve. It would take two or three very lengthy steps to combine all of the groups. That said, all would have to be willing. A prenup of DCI being stapled would have to be agreed to for the mainline to look at it, the DCI's would have to agree on some sort of integration prior to the stapling to the bottom of the list, and the company who controls the list would have to agree to it.
I beleive that it is possible, but not probably for one list.

To more specifically answer your question, airlines that are not ALPA would have to decide to remain independent or join ALPA to be included, and airlines flying for multiple carriers would have a tough go at it. The ugly truth is that the WO probably would be the ones integrated first, followed by the regionals that only few for DAL. In the end it is a pipe dream.

IMHO, the way the trend is going these day is to a smaller DCI footprint and with that more mainline. If that trend continues I doubt that the power people would think the effort was worth the return. Unity is important, but some see pulling the flying up as all the unity that is needed.

Like I said, lots of work would need to happen for this to make it off the ground.