Delta Chp 11 today? 8/7/2004

[NuGuy]

I don't get the reference...

Sorry, my bad, I thought more people would get it.

Anyway, when CNN first fired up in 1980-81 or so, Ted Turner said it would broadcast until the end of the Earth.

Urban legend has it that there is a taped message from Ted, locked up and stashed away at CNN HQ, to be played in the event of the apocolypse or other some such event.

Nu

 

[vc10]

God, if they're going to do it, at least wait until we dump the Dojets!!@!@#!@@!#$$@#!@!#$@!$#%@!#%~@#

FLYI retains responsibility for the DoJets in the event Delta defaults. No one has more interest in keeping Delta out of bankruptcy than FLYI.

 

[701EV]

God, if they're going to do it, at least wait until we dump the Dojets!!@!@#!@@!#$$@#!@!#$@!$#%@!#%~@#

For what it's worth, I heard from an ACA guy that Delta could get out of the Dojet deal because, Delta's credit rating was below a B rating. With it now at a C+ or somthing like that. That would nix the carry over deal on the leases. We shall see.

701EV

 

[Patriot328]

For what it's worth, I heard from an ACA guy that Delta could get out of the Dojet deal because, Delta's credit rating was below a B rating. With it now at a C+ or somthing like that. That would nix the carry over deal on the leases. We shall see.

701EV

I've heard that,too. We've also been told by one of our VPs that Delta is taking them, and that the credit rating does not matter.


We shall see, indeed...(?)

 

[skydraulic]

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?siteid=yhoo&dist=yhooquotenews&guid=%7B5BB42057-76C1-4B02-B3A6-7B97D1503CC4%7D

Sounds like a threat to me.

 

[House_X]

I've heard that,too. We've also been told by one of our VPs that Delta is taking them, and that the credit rating does not matter.


We shall see, indeed...(?)

I'm willing to bet that Delta is going to do everything humanly and non-humanly possible to dump the Dorniers on us. And you can also bet they are going to do it at the last minute when the clock strikes 12 on November 2nd.

I don't see any financial incentive for Delta to take the jets...I hope the peeps in IAD don't assume that Delta is going to take them...we need a back-up plan to sell these jets or we're F#$Ked...

 

[Bat]

Latest News on Delta

Delta Air harshens Chapter 11 warning
Airline says it will file unless it can cut substantial costs

By Matt Andrejczak, CBS.MarketWatch.com
Last Update: 1:24 PM ET Aug. 9, 2004 SAN FRANCISCO (CBS.MW) - Delta Air Lines, in one of its strongest worded statements to date, warned Monday it will file for bankruptcy if it cannot drastically slash its costs soon.

The nation's third-largest airline also said its cash reserves are dwindling faster than anticipated due to weaker margins and soaring fuel costs.

"If we cannot make substantial progress in the near term toward achieving a competitive cost structure ... we will need to seek to restructure our costs under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code," Delta said in its quarterly Securities and Exchange Commission filing.

Atlanta-based Delta (DAL: news, chart, profile) first raised the possibility of bankruptcy proceedings at the end of the first quarter.

Delta, which has one of the industry's highest operating cost structures, has accumulated $5.6 billion in losses since 2001. In the latest quarter, it lost $1.96 billion.

It is facing surging fuel costs and stiff competition from low-fare carriers such as AirTran Holdings (AAI: news, chart, profile), Southwest Airlines (LUV: news, chart, profile) and JetBlue Airways (JBLU: news, chart, profile).

To avoid filing for bankruptcy protection, Delta wants $1.02 billion in annual wage, pension and productivity concessions from its pilots. Delta's pilots union has offered to give up between $655 million and $705 million in pay cuts.

"We believe that this approximately $1 billion in annual pilot cost savings, in addition to significant cost reductions from other stakeholder groups, is essential for us to compete successfully," Delta said in the filing.

Delta further warned that its $2 billion of cash reserves will continue to dwindle in 2004 at the same rate they did in the first six months of this year. The airline began the year with $2.7 billion in cash. By year-end, its cash on hand would be $1.3 billion.

Delta, which cannot raise capital on reasonable terms, said lower-than-expected yields on U.S. flights and soaring fuel prices have significantly lowered prior cash flow projections. As a result, the airline said it cannot pay certain obligations with cash flow from operations.

The airline projects 2004 fuel costs will be about $680 million higher than in 2003.

Shares of Delta, which are trading at historic lows, lost 8 cents to $4.03 in midday trading.


Matt Andrejczak is a reporter for CBS.MarketWatch.com in San Francisco.

 

[Snakum]

Just what you guys need ... another Major abrogating existing employee contracts and it's financial responsibilities to retired employees. Hope it doesn't happen.

And for the Deltoids who flew the MD88 from RDU to ATL, and the 76 from ATL to JAX today ... thanks for getting Ms. Snakum there safely (And early, too! ).

Minh

 

[jetflyer]

I just hope Grinstein and the rest of his incompetent cronies can do whatever is necessary to keep Delta from full liquidation. Even with severe wage cost cuts from ALL stakeholders, this company is sitting on a very sizable crippling debt.

The 20+ billion in debt is something the low cost carriers don't have. The interest payments on the debt alone put Delta at a competitive disadvantage even AFTER robbing people's pay.

My point is that ALL DELTA EMPLOYEES could be paid comparable Jet Blue LIKE wages and Delta would still make much less money than Jet Blue because of PENSION OBLIGATIONS and DEBT INTEREST PAYMENTS. IN ADDITION Delta also has no FUEL HEDGING.

I too am betting there will be a Delta Chapter 11 filing even if there are sizable wage concessions.

Delta Chapter 11 advantages:
1) Severe wage concessions from ALL employees, yes even ASA and Comair employees if Delta approaches Chapter 7.
2) Would not have to recall pilots
3) DEBT refinancing at better rates saving Millions
4) Make it hard for ASA pilots to get a raise
5) Get rid of Scope restrictions and could increase PROFITABLE 70 seater flying
6) Dump the 30 Dojets in Independence Air's laps??(I've heard this is a possibility)
7) The more CASH Delta has going into bankruptcy the better the chance of Delta surviving BANKRUPTCY.

Let's all pray that Delta survives its problems. There are many lives depending dearly on the survival of DELTA including mine.

Jetflyer

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I doubt you will see a filing before Greenjeans has had a chance to present his restructuring ideas. I would think he would then give creditors and other stakeholders 30 days to make a final offer before taking the company to 11 sometime in early Oct.

One analyst predicts Delta will still have $1.3 Billion at the end of the year.

But fuel costs may suck that down to $1 Billion. I predict bankruptcy in '05.




http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?source=blq/yhoo&siteid=yhoo&dist=yhoo&guid=%7B5BB42057%2D76C1%2D4B02%2DB3A6%2D7B97D1503CC4%7D

 

[Palerider957]

Delta Chapter 11 advantages:
"1) Severe wage concessions from ALL employees, yes even ASA and Comair employees if Delta approaches Chapter 7."

Yeah, lets really pi.ss off ASA as their contract talks come to a head and cruise to a potential strike. While we're at it, let's stir the pot at Comair who is heading back to sec. 6....hey they don't have the nerve to strike, right?? Besides, those pesky RJ's cost too much and don't bring in any revenue.


"Let's all pray that Delta survives its problems. There are many lives depending dearly on the survival of DELTA including mine. "

Agreed.

 

[drag]

Delta Chapter 11 advantages:
1) Severe wage concessions from ALL employees, yes even ASA and Comair employees if Delta approaches Chapter 7.
Why would it take an approach to Chapter 7 for ASA/CMR to take cuts? The cuts will come to ASA/CMR w/in weeks of Chapter 11

2) Would not have to recall pilots
Why? What if they need more?

3) DEBT refinancing at better rates saving Millions
And costing millions.

4) Make it hard for ASA pilots to get a raise
Raise?? Are you serious? Get ready for a pay/beny cut. An ASA pilot will wish they worked Trans States.

5) Get rid of Scope restrictions and could increase PROFITABLE 70 seater flying
You mean give all 70 seaters to contractors? That make DAL profitable? That's the answer to this mess? How about this....DAL pilots fly the 70 seater at CMR 50 seat wages/beny's. CMR/ASA could have the 50 seater w/ a 30% pay/beny cut. Impossible?? Get ready.

6) Dump the 30 Dojets in Independence Air's laps??(I've heard this is a possibility)
Indy? Won't matter much. They'll be bankrupt in early 05.

7) The more CASH Delta has going into banruptcy the better the chance of Delta surviving BANKRUPTCY.
You mean the more money lawyers make.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Not without a very bloody fight! We really don't have that much to lose anyway.

 

[flaps30]

funny thing...

how the mainliners are dying for ASA and Comair to take pay cuts. Don't you think it would just further managements cause. Why do you think they want unlimited 70 seaters?
Seems to me mainline should use some of its limited ammo to merge the WOs, stop the outsource and get every DAL/ASA/CMR pilot on the same team.

 

[drag]

Not without a very bloody fight! We really don't have that much to lose anyway.

Unfortunately for ASA/CMR, DAL learned their lesson from the CMR strike. The routes are so overlapped that an ASA strike wouldn't hurt too bad. ASA could be spun off easily. The aircraft could go to the next undercutter. Trans States, Mesa, Piedmont, the list goes on. I have no doubt that other RJ operators would gladly replace ASA/CMR..........and the pilots would show up in a heart beat. In fact, just as mainline routes have been replaced w/ RJs, other RJ providers will start underbidding their "brothers." The race to the bottom is on. I figure ASA/CMR could take a 50% paycut and could easily replace the pilots who chose to quit/strike. Maybe even pay for their own training.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

pack sand.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Not without a very bloody fight! We really don't have that much to lose anyway.

Unfortunately for ASA/CMR, DAL learned their lesson from the CMR strike. The routes are so overlapped that an ASA strike wouldn't hurt too bad. ASA could be spun off easily. The aircraft could go to the next undercutter. Trans States, Mesa, Piedmont, the list goes on. I have no doubt that other RJ operators would gladly replace ASA/CMR..........and the pilots would show up in a heart beat. In fact, just as mainline routes have been replaced w/ RJs, other RJ providers will start underbidding their "brothers." The race to the bottom is on. I figure ASA/CMR could take a 50% paycut and could easily replace the pilots who chose to quit/strike. Maybe even pay for their own training.

You almost sound giddy about it. Be careful what you wish for! There is an awful lot of glass in your house too fella!

 

[drag]

I assure you I'm not giddy. I find it sad and pathetic. My glass house has already been hit. Although I landed safely at another airline while on furlough, I've begun moving into other fields as back up income. If you're at an RJ provider and want a family with a reasonable lifestyle, I strongly suggest looking at other options. This job won't cut it longterm provided it stays in this situation. And the current condition appears to be getting worse. I hope I'm wrong, I really do.

 

[G4G5]

http://news.morningstar.com/news/DJ/M08/D09/200408091723DOWJONESDJONLINE000662.html

 

[XRMEFLYER]

I assure you I'm not giddy. I find it sad and pathetic. My glass house has already been hit. Although I landed safely at another airline while on furlough, I've begun moving into other fields as back up income. If you're at an RJ provider and want a family with a reasonable lifestyle, I strongly suggest looking at other options. This job won't cut it longterm provided it stays in this situation. And the current condition appears to be getting worse. I hope I'm wrong, I really do.

I hope so too!