Delta and the DC-9s

[xjhawk]

trying to compare new pilots to old pilots is like comparing apples to oranges. This is just my observation ofcourse. When an intern at NWA NATCO I was able to sit in on and train in the 320 program. When given an opportunity to fly the SIM I found it very cool but a little too automated since I was used to a Seneca. But during those first training lessons one of the DC-9 pilots just could not get the hang of it and required a lot of extra training. Their excuse? "I never flew glass before." My response at the time was, "I never flew anything bigger than a Seneca and I was doing fine." I had 240 hours at the time. Most found the 320 easy to pick up as the training was excellent. Then there was the stories of the NATCO flows that has a hard time with the DC-9. My only excuse for anyone not being able to go back to steam gauges is that their training was not tailored towards it. WHen I was leaving flight instructing they were taking the ADF out of the instrument packages of the the planes and installing GArmin ????. Pretty cool stuff and very modern. I assume the same thing is happening now with the steam type gauges as the schools get the newer modern glass in their trainers. I was not liking that our ADF's were being taken out of the planes since I knew that in my interviews they might test those skills. I am giving them an excuse, there are just reasons. They have every opportunity to find a way to train on their skills before getting hired somewhere. But I must say, that I know I will be pretty rusty if many more years go by with not flying round dials as it looks like I will be in CRJ's for many more years. I will hope that all that time in the Saab and as a FI will come back to me quick! Lets not create more barriers between us in our profession. I can assure you that most pilots flying in the regionals would rather be at a mainline carrrier flying anything.

 

[Superpilot92]

trying to compare new pilots to old pilots is like comparing apples to oranges. This is just my observation ofcourse. When an intern at NWA NATCO I was able to sit in on and train in the 320 program. When given an opportunity to fly the SIM I found it very cool but a little too automated since I was used to a Seneca. But during those first training lessons one of the DC-9 pilots just could not get the hang of it and required a lot of extra training. Their excuse? "I never flew glass before." My response at the time was, "I never flew anything bigger than a Seneca and I was doing fine." I had 240 hours at the time. Most found the 320 easy to pick up as the training was excellent. Then there was the stories of the NATCO flows that has a hard time with the DC-9. My only excuse for anyone not being able to go back to steam gauges is that their training was not tailored towards it. WHen I was leaving flight instructing they were taking the ADF out of the instrument packages of the the planes and installing GArmin ????. Pretty cool stuff and very modern. I assume the same thing is happening now with the steam type gauges as the schools get the newer modern glass in their trainers. I was not liking that our ADF's were being taken out of the planes since I knew that in my interviews they might test those skills. I am giving them an excuse, there are just reasons. They have every opportunity to find a way to train on their skills before getting hired somewhere. But I must say, that I know I will be pretty rusty if many more years go by with not flying round dials as it looks like I will be in CRJ's for many more years. I will hope that all that time in the Saab and as a FI will come back to me quick! Lets not create more barriers between us in our profession. I can assure you that most pilots flying in the regionals would rather be at a mainline carrrier flying anything.

I went from round dials to ERJ then to DC9 to A320 to DC9 and back to A320. I didnt find either transition "hard". Going from glass to round dials was more of an adjustment but it was actually pretty fun. Long live the Diesel -9 :beer:

 

[DYLIN]

Simple Motch

1 training event for a new hire at DAL

1 Event for the CA leaving Compass or Mesaba

1 Event for a new hire first officer at Compass or Mesaba.

And to complement ACL's response here, the cost of an upgrade at Compass is nil.

The new hire training is setup to cover 90% of it. People go back for a sim ride and a short class but the PIC type is done in the beginning.

Going back to new hire training, they have to pay for their own accomodations. I think we can all agree that is ridiculous but until the new contract in a couple years, it keeps the cost of a Compass new hire very low.

So, yes, three training events for a flow, but more like 2, and when you consider the cost of the first one, almost more like 1.5. Then when you consider the savings of a pilot on 3-4 year pay in the left seat gone, and upgrading one who's only on year 2-3 pay, and then filling his spot with someone who's on 1-2 year pay, it's cheap.

 

[DrewBlows]

And to complement ACL's response here, the cost of an upgrade at Compass is nil.

The new hire training is setup to cover 90% of it. People go back for a sim ride and a short class but the PIC type is done in the beginning.

Going back to new hire training, they have to pay for their own accomodations. I think we can all agree that is ridiculous but until the new contract in a couple years, it keeps the cost of a Compass new hire very low.

So, yes, three training events for a flow, but more like 2, and when you consider the cost of the first one, almost more like 1.5. Then when you consider the savings of a pilot on 3-4 year pay in the left seat gone, and upgrading one who's only on year 2-3 pay, and then filling his spot with someone who's on 1-2 year pay, it's cheap.

I'll go a step further and guess (that's all anyone's opinion here is anyway) that the flow that is set up at Compass (maybe Mesaba too, but I don't know much about that) is less expensive than hiring off the street over the long run.

The FO that replaces the CA is at a lower pay scale and the new hire that replaces the FO is at new hire pay which supplements the training cost. In addition a working flow reduces attrition to other airlines.

Over the long run Compass is less likely to incur legacy costs that other more mature regionals are experiencing. I'm not passing judgment one way or another, simply stating my opinion on the finances of the Compass flow agreement. Delta would likely save a lot of money if it only hired flows (including Comair), but there are a lot of reasons why that's not a great idea.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Don't forget the cost to interview and perform the background checks. It is also a great way to to fire up the hiring cog when they only want a few ppl.

 

[FATboy]

Last week I flew 9966 DC9-30 to Pinal for retirement. NW/DAL FAA told me that the DC9-30/40 will be pulled into retirement by Sep, leaving the DC9-50 to continue flying. The DC9-50 will receive the "wedge" tail retrofit along with the aerodynamic fairings from the Boeing 717. This is expected to increase fuel efficiency by up to 5% according to Boeing engineering.

Pinal in Mirana has many aircraft there, along with a long row, nose to tail of NWA DC9 -10,30 and 40's stored there. At one point in time, NWA flew 197 DC9's.

I flew one back from Pinal on the 6th of March after sitting there 1 week. They said it had some more cycles left on it and would probably use it as a spare.