Delta and Freedom

[General Lee]

How would Ornstein bail DAL out?

If DL does go to Chap 11 (and I know you already think so but our leaders don't at this time, and they have the numbers and plans) they could be a potential investor, just like they would have with USAir. It is nice to have friends (AMEX, CECAS, MESA, and others) with deep pockets. Just hypothisizing chief. In the meantime, we are trying to cut costs and currently need some money to get us to the point where our budget cuts start actually helping the bottomline. Palumbo says we will have cut $3 billion a year by the end of this year, and we are on our way to $5 billion a year. Not bad, but we need to get there first....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[rptrain]

It is nice to have friends (...MESA...).....

with friends like these, who needs enemies?

 

[~~~^~~~]

with friends like these, who needs enemies?

No kidding.

Heck, he thinks that ASA and Comair pilots who feed his operation with revenue and passengers are the enemy.

Can you imagine a way to better piss off the ASA pilots than to hire Mesa as a replacement? I will fight for a prolonged strike on principle, just to see Delta end. Delta has managed itself into the same sort of labor relations that killed that other alter ego loving operator, Frank Lorenzo. Ask him if labor can shut down an airline.

 

[nimtz]

I wonder if the ASA/Skywest pilots are going to welcome the Mesa pilots to their jumpseats or if weight/balance will end up preventing it in many cases (as I expect it might).

I expect you to be a piece of sh!t then. I have as low opinon of Mesa as you, but outside of a Freedom guy I keep politics off the jumpseat.

 

[Rick James]

Mesa pilots are always welcome in my jumpseat. They are not responsible for the actions of upper management. Their contract sucks, but our "non-enforceable" contract at Skywest is no gem either.

General, what is your beef with Skywest? Is it the 50-99 seat pay fiasco?

 

[Boeingman]

Frank Lorenzo. Ask him if labor can shut down an airline.

It can't. Do you need a history lesson for 1983?

 

[Boeingman]

In the meantime, we are trying to cut costs and currently need some money to get us to the point where our budget cuts start actually helping the bottomline. Palumbo says we will have cut $3 billion a year by the end of this year, and we are on our way to $5 billion a year. Not bad, but we need to get there first....

No flame intended, but if Delta had the ability to cut costs in this dollar range, why didn't they do that before they cried poor mouth with the pilots and labor?

If there was room for these cost cuts, does it not anger you guys they hoodwinked you? Not to mention chopping fares on your Billion dollar give backs?

Somebody is lying.

 

[Wesb737fo]

Hey Rick James B***ch (lol)

Make sure you know the difference between the pilots who work for Mesa and the ones who screwed over the Mesa pilots by jumping over to Freedom.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I don't know the Delta plan but selling off Comair may be smart if Delta can ensure they continue to serve Delta. But will Comair hurt Delta by feeding competitors?

Adding Mesa to the regional mix adds more uncertainty. Could Delta play one regional off another to get a cheaper feed? If UAL gets its feed on the cheap will all the others have to work better deals to compete? Mesa looks ripe to make some deals.

All this makes my head hurt. Delta has a high quality feed from Comair but I wonder if the public values its quality over other operations.

If oil comes down the impetus to change will lessen but, if the ball is already rolling, how do you stop it? I'm hoping oil comes down.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

If DL does go to Chap 11 (and I know you already think so but our leaders don't at this time, and they have the numbers and plans) they could be a potential investor, just like they would have with USAir. It is nice to have friends (AMEX, CECAS, MESA, and others) with deep pockets. Just hypothisizing chief. In the meantime, we are trying to cut costs and currently need some money to get us to the point where our budget cuts start actually helping the bottomline. Palumbo says we will have cut $3 billion a year by the end of this year, and we are on our way to $5 billion a year. Not bad, but we need to get there first....


Bye Bye--General Lee

You know this better than I do....

If the earnings or cost picture turns the corner the money will come. A decent deal will be elusive until then. Maybe GECAS or AMEX will float you more cash until the future looks more certain.

Do you think the pilots are looking at more cuts?? This press release tells me management is working on you guys.

Delta Air estimates $3.1 bln in pensions 2006-08

Wed May 4, 2005 05:48 PM ET

WASHINGTON, May 4 (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines (DAL.N: Quote, Profile, Research) estimated on Wednesday that it is facing about $3.1 billion in pension costs between 2006-2008. In a regulatory filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission, the No. 3 U.S. airline projected its pension funding obligations would total $600 million in 2006, $950 million in 2007 and $1.6 billion in 2008. The airline has already said that its obligation for this year is approximately $450 million. Delta has already contributed about half the total for 2005.

 

[Traderd]

All this makes my head hurt. Delta has a high quality feed from Comair but I wonder if the public values its quality over other operations.

After last christmas, do you believe the public considers Comair to have a higher quality of service than other Delta connections?

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

After last christmas, do you believe the public considers Comair to have a higher quality of service than other Delta connections?

I have not flown all regionals. Don't know for sure. But I believe Comair is one of the best.

 

[FDJ2]

I have not flown all regionals. Don't know for sure. But I believe Comair is one of the best.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Air Transport Association name Mesa as Regional Airline of the year?

 

[Empennage]

I would hope that people can distinguish between the "FREEDOM" and "MESA" guys. I would love to see a Freedom guy on the jumpseat. It would be a very enjoyable experience.

We need to be clear on a few things here.

After the contract, all Freedom airplanes AND pilots were moved over to the Mesa Certificate. So- at this time, you can not tell the difference between a pilot who did go to Freedom or who chose to stay at Mesa.

The new aircraft which will be flying on the Freedom certificate will be flying there do to Delta's Scope clause and the Mesa CRJ-900 aircraft on the Mesa Certificate.

Any Mesa pilot may bid to fly the Delta code-sharing aircraft which will be on the Freedom Certificate. In no way are these pilot the same pilots which flew the Freedom Certificate before. You will not be able to tell via ID card who is who.

All Mesa Air Group flying is now flown by Mesa Pilots. In no way is this a reinstatement of the previous Freedom or a move like GoJet.

 

[DashCojones]

We need to be clear on a few things here.

After the contract, all Freedom airplanes AND pilots were moved over to the Mesa Certificate. So- at this time, you can not tell the difference between a pilot who did go to Freedom or who chose to stay at Mesa.

I beg to differ...want the list?

 

[MK82Man]

More info needed

Empennage and other MESA pilots

First off, thanks for all the jumpseats ... you guys have been great carrying me back and forth to work. I agree that a jumpseater who is trying to get to and from work shouldn't be held hostage to management decisions at his/her company. Can you expand on the Freedom issue? I know the guys that jumped ship before were warned ahead of time and most knew the stakes, but jumped anyway. Their lot in life now. If I remember correctly a few of the students in the training academy were stuck with no choice and they were forgiven. Is the operation of jets under the Freedom certificate (now for Delta) ok with your MEC ... IE is it really MESA with just another label. I thought all the Freedom A/C had been returned to MESA and really the only asset they had now was the "certificate"

 

[Checknsix]

<<Make sure you know the difference between the pilots who work for Mesa and the ones who screwed over the Mesa pilots by jumping over to Freedom.>>

There are a lot of guys at Mesa that will not want to move to the Freedom certificate, because of the stigma associated with the a55hats that made the leap a couple of years ago. That will likely force many junior captains and FO's over to that certificate. Not only will they have to suffer the penalties of having that cert. on their resume, when the uninformed make judgement on their work history, but will likely be suffering on their commutes.

A lot of good pilots are caught up in a Lorenzo-type management at Mesa. Between that and a comparatively young contract maturity compared to the rest of the regionals, consider yourself lucky where you are. Please careful as to who you are crapping on. There are a lot of guys at Mesa who have paid some serious dues...including J4J guys from USAirways, United. We all have our PFT's, etc...but not everybody has an Orenstein.

Thanks for listening. - Checknsix

 

[Empennage]

I beg to differ...want the list?

Yes and so should you.

Again...all pilots and aircraft were transferred. You can not tell just via ID card anymore who is who. Keep your list and use if, if you would like, to decifer which pilot with Mesa IDs went to the old Freedom.

My point is...do not deny a Freedom pilot a jumpseat because he is holding a Freedom ID card. He is just a Mesa pilot who bid the new Delta spot. Your list would indicate whether he was a "former" Freedom pilot. Better yet - just ask your jumpseater to show you his Mesa Contract and see where he was flying when the CBA was signed.

on the other matter...

YES...it's OK WITH THE MEC to bid the Freedom flying. All the MEC wanted in negotiations is all Mesa Air Group flying to be flown by Mesa pilots. No more alter-ego or runaway shops.

This was solved with the CBA. Since then, all pilots and aircraft were moved to the Mesa Certificate. This is now the first use of the Freedom Certificate and the planes will be flown by Mesa pilots, unlike GoJet. It's the same thing as Chat and Repub.

 

[FDJ2]

Excellent point. There are a great many good pilots at Mesa who are working hard to enforce their contract and improve on it. Mesa Air Group pilots, more than most, recognize the need for strong contract compliance, protecting the right to collective bargaining, the importance of scope and other issues which effect this profession. Mesa pilots also don't just play lip service to protecting this profession, but they also put their money where their mouth is and have the highest ALPA-PAC support rate of any ALPA regional carrier.

 

[Empennage]

I beg to differ...want the list?

Sorry Man...I misread your statement.

The list would indicate. But again my point was on the matter of ID card. Also - no Official list was ever issued. So, I'm not sure what you have.

If you have any question...just look at a Mesa Pilot's contract. LOA 1 and the attached Sen. List.