Delta Air Lines Orders Up to 70 Bombardier CRJ900 NextGen Jetliners

[777forever]

Agreed. I would love it if we could get to a place where our pilots (unified) are working with management to make this a successful company with less poisonous morale. Unfortunately I think the company's idea of working together is chasing after the continuously lowering bar in this segment of the industry. With each regional liquidation or BK concession our position gets worse. The longer we bicker among ourselves the more we play into their hands. We need to resolve our disagreements internally & quickly.

You make good points, however I don't believe a few pilots bickering on forums about rumors means our two MECs are bickering. They may or may not be, but nobody truly knows what's going on.

Also, I believe the company isn't continuously lowering the bar, they are going for high quality product at a reasonable price, unlike GoJet which goes for bare minimum quality at bare bones price. I have a close friend at GoJet and he states while the upgrade is quick, it's a dirt cheap scumbag company where you have to watch your back every leg.

I firmly believe in Skywest Inc's business plan of high quality product at reasonable costs.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

 

[HA25]

Agreed. I would love it if we could get to a place where our pilots (unified) are working with management to make this a successful company with less poisonous morale. Unfortunately I think the company's idea of working together is chasing after the continuously lowering bar in this segment of the industry. With each regional liquidation or BK concession our position gets worse. The longer we bicker among ourselves the more we play into their hands. We need to resolve our disagreements internally & quickly.

smartest post in the entire thread. Put aside the petty stuff and come together, or lose.

 

[sinkrate]

Honest question for the ASA and XJET guys.....What happens if a JCBA can not be reached or if it fails ratification?

 

[ASApuppy]

Some rumors I heard is that Uncle Jerry could overbid the ERJ operation and win a replacement bid with CRJ operations. There are a ton coming on the market from the Delta operators. Plus, with CRJ-200 being a training platform for the 700/900, that makes them more valuable than the ERJ's. Even if we do work out our differences, I see most ERJ's headed the desert or overseas before the CRJ's for that reason alone. If UAL does allow larger planes and with Skywest Inc. having purchased first rights, What 70/76 seater makes since to you? We have no established training or maintience program for an EMB-175. We could start a CRJ-700/900 program next week.

I don't know how we got to such a hatred level between our two groups. There are certainly some aspects of your guys contract I like. Some with ours. I do know that the negotiating committee has marching orders to terminate your B-fund and find a way to buy you guys off. A cash payout to L-xjt pilots and not to L-asa pilots will certainly encourage 1700 no votes on our side. So, how then to make the joint contract good enough for 50.1%?

Personally, I think we should be positioning ourselves to make it palatable for a merge with Skywest. The era of divide and conquer needs to die. We need to all be on the same team and work together to beat our real competition, other Regionals.

 

[HA25]

so how are two ALPA carriers going to merge with one militantly non-ALPA carrier who bought them? Not being a prick, just genuinely curious how that's going to play out, as it should.

 

[Jon Rivoli]

so how are two ALPA carriers going to merge with one militantly non-ALPA carrier who bought them? Not being a prick, just genuinely curious how that's going to play out, as it should.

The only militant types I've encountered are the pro ALPA crowd. The rest of us are content to get along and live our lives happily.

If you want us to join ALPA, you need to convince us of the advantages and not act like a bunch of thugs.

As it is, so long as we are not union, we will never be merged. Were we to vote in ALPA, we would probably be merged in short order.

Peace.

 

[HA25]

The only militant types I've encountered are the pro ALPA crowd. The rest of us are content to get along and live our lives happily.

If you want us to join ALPA, you need to convince us of the advantages and not act like a bunch of thugs.

As it is, so long as we are not union, we will never be merged. Were we to vote in ALPA, we would probably be merged in short order.

Peace.

I don't know much about working at Skywest, but I did work for ASA shortly after we got ALPA, (literally a couple of months into it)... and the difference between a union contract and none was dramatic, but that was in the mid 90's, and this is now... it's hard to say if the ALPA RJ drivers are doing any better or not... but it's not hard to say that ALPA in general has a problem with being representation for RJ pilots as well as mainline pilots...

thanks for the insight.

 

[JustaNumber]

Honest question for the ASA and XJET guys.....What happens if a JCBA can not be reached or if it fails ratification?

Answer: nothing happens. We would just keep working under the old contracts, and this could continue for years. (The current ASA contract was under negotiation for five years). A final resolution will only come about when the pilot group(s) get tired enough of not seeing any cost of living raises, and start causing headaches for the company. In 2007, it only took a month or two of everybody really getting on board with operating as safely as humanly possible, for the company to finally call "uncle."

 

[ASApuppy]

The only militant types I've encountered are the pro ALPA crowd. The rest of us are content to get along and live our lives happily.

If you want us to join ALPA, you need to convince us of the advantages and not act like a bunch of thugs.

As it is, so long as we are not union, we will never be merged. Were we to vote in ALPA, we would probably be merged in short order.

Peace.

You could vote in ALPA or not, it does not force a merge. But, if the board is convinced that a merge is in the best interest of the company, it will happen overnight. Then per NMB procedures, all employees work groups that are represented will get a vote as to which representation the new group will have. Every body gets their say.

Alpa could go down the road of a single carrier petition with the NMB. If they feel there is enough evidence that all pilots of Skywest Inc. share a common structure, then they might rule that we should be commonly represented. Again, a vote must happen with all pilots. But, this is off the table for now because it is in the TPA between XJT and ASA ALPA, and management that there will be no discussion of "One-list" until the completion of the ASA/XJT merge (which is SLI).

With the difficulty in recruiting and retaining pilots becoming a real issue, I think we could all agree, that one-list would be a huge step toward helping that. Personally, with our management track record, I would never vote out the union. The 2% pay is a worthwhile insurance policy to me. I would be in favor of dropping ALPA for inhouse though. Sure, Skywest Inc would like to remain union free, but I think, at least before the XJT purchase, that Inc has found it not too difficult to work with the union. We need to keep our sights on bigger prizes.....

 

[XPOO]

You could vote in ALPA or not, it does not force a merge. But, if the board is convinced that a merge is in the best interest of the company, it will happen overnight.

And the board is made up of people who dont want your two pilot groups souring their bread and butter airline. Aint ever happening.

 

[Nevets]

Is your MEC willing to agree to cancel the TPA agreement?

To what end?

The way I understand it is that nobody will be taking any concessions with the JCBA. Unless L-XJT considers PBS a concession. Anyways, the final system hasn't been decided yet, and lots of rumors about which one the company favors and who's side they are on.

If PBS is not a concession, then why did you guys negotiate a pay raise for implementing yours? Would it have been more of a concession without vacation low?

The aerodata transition is a huge revenue enhancer, as it allows much quicker calculations (and recalculations when they inevitably add three more bags right at departure time), increasing the odds of making D-0 and A-14, which means more money from DL/UA.

The 200% last year was because at the time they were not expecting the additional Comair or Pinnacle flying, and they were expecting the airline to downsize. It is more cost-effective to pay overtime than to hire, train, and then furlough guys for just a few months.

The employee appreciation events are designed to increase morale and productivity. (Whether they were implemented persuasively enough may be debateable, but the concept has been proven successful in general).

Management isn't perfect (Surejet? seriously?), but I do think they are trying to run the best airline they can. We're not being run by some masochistic Ornstein type that intentionally abuses employees as part of the business model. If the company was returning 25% profit margins, then we could argue for our fair share, but when we're just struggling to remain profitable at all, and keep from becoming the next failed regional to wither and die, we do have to start accepting reality.

If we were facing draconian concessions (like the Pinnacle guys), then holding firm with dignity would be warranted. But being asked to accept the wrong brand of PBS vendors (for the XJT guys), or something like losing vacation low (for the ASA guys), and you're ready to burn the place down? I'm just saying we all need to put the reality of the industry into perspective.

If you new how much of a Mickey Mouse operation this has turned into since being under new management, you would realize our position. We didn't need all these BS morale programs when we were being paid correctly, our contract wasn't being reinterpreted and purposely ignored in certain instances, and I can go on with the disaster every single new thing they have introduced when the old way was working perfectly fine. You are right, this management is FAR from perfect! But you seem to have a koolaid excuse for every single line item we point out.

If you want to talk about the ideal situation, it should be the pilots and management jointly working together vs. our competition. That's who the real "enemy" is. Or you could possibly make the case that Delta is our real adversary.

Being able to say "we sure showed you" to management as the company goes out of business is kind of silly. Unfortunately, regional airline survival is a very real concern in today's age of bankruptcy court abuse.

We had that at LXJT back in 2008. Not so much now. Gee, I wonder why?

Some rumors I heard is that Uncle Jerry could overbid the ERJ operation and win a replacement bid with CRJ operations. There are a ton coming on the market from the Delta operators. Plus, with CRJ-200 being a training platform for the 700/900, that makes them more valuable than the ERJ's. Even if we do work out our differences, I see most ERJ's headed the desert or overseas before the CRJ's for that reason alone. If UAL does allow larger planes and with Skywest Inc. having purchased first rights, What 70/76 seater makes since to you? We have no established training or maintience program for an EMB-175. We could start a CRJ-700/900 program next week.

I don't know how we got to such a hatred level between our two groups. There are certainly some aspects of your guys contract I like. Some with ours. I do know that the negotiating committee has marching orders to terminate your B-fund and find a way to buy you guys off. A cash payout to L-xjt pilots and not to L-asa pilots will certainly encourage 1700 no votes on our side. So, how then to make the joint contract good enough for 50.1%?

Personally, I think we should be positioning ourselves to make it palatable for a merge with Skywest. The era of divide and conquer needs to die. We need to all be on the same team and work together to beat our real competition, other Regionals.

The ERJs are history. This was true regardless of who owns us. The leases begin to expire next year and the last one expires in 2021. I think the perceived hatred comes from some LASA pilots posting basically for the LXJT pilots to get on board with a concessionary contract. We just don't want to take any concessions in our contract and don't feel that we need or should. Like the talk about getting rid of the B fund. You guys should be saying that you want in on that instead of telling us to play ball. Thats where the "hatred" comes from. We will make it palatable for Skywest when we can show them that its better to have an employment contract and not just ride coat tails.

And the board is made up of people who dont want your two pilot groups souring their bread and butter airline. Aint ever happening.

Not unless they like sour dough.

 

[777forever]

If PBS is not a concession, then why did you guys negotiate a pay raise for implementing yours? Would it have been more of a concession without vacation low?

PBS saved the company money because it scheduled more efficiently requiring less pilots. ALPA negotiated a certain percentage of that cost saving into pay raises.

Pilot QOL and pay improved, while company saved money by needing less pilots/not having to hire

 

[ASApuppy]

PBS saved the company money because it scheduled more efficiently requiring less pilots. ALPA negotiated a certain percentage of that cost saving into pay raises.

Pilot QOL and pay improved, while company saved money by needing less pilots/not having to hire

The fallacy with this is that the BrainTrust of our operation, also known as Crew Scheduling, has never figured out how to operate with any less reserves. So, I honestly don't think PBS saved the Company any $. But, I love it.

My wishes that will save the company money....


1) Better variety in trip construction. Make 4 days less than 15% of the trips. Bring back daylines and 2 day trips. Like it used to be. When most of the pilot population is stuck flying 4 day trips, and all the open time is 4 day trips, it makes it a bit hard to help out.

2) Allow for straight trip or partial trip drops. If someone needs a day or two off, they typically will take it. By allowing us some flexibility ahead of time, the company is not stuck with last minute sick calls to cover.

3) Change the rules about phone contact and junior assignments. It should be no jeopardy to answer the phone. Both sides have drawn a line in the sandbox and then retreated to their corner. We both need to step toward each other with mutual respect. If staffing on a given day is too tight for somebody to drop a round trip into it, then it should be automatic that that day becomes premium pay. Obviously, we need to come up with limitations so that the pilot group does not turn the entire schedule into premium pay. I'm open to discussion.

 

[ASApuppy]

And the board is made up of people who dont want your two pilot groups souring their bread and butter airline. Aint ever happening.

Please tell me your solution for staffing the aircraft when hiring does pick up at the legacies in the next year or so? You do know that with hardly anyone hiring now, both airlines are having difficulty filling new-hire classes?
The days are already here were the Regionals tell the mainline partners what they can do each month, as far as block hours, rather than the other way around? In other words, we will shrink each month when hiring resumes in earnest.

How much better would it be for staffing if you could send underutilized crews from FAT to DTW to cover an IROP? Commuting would go down, Attrition would go down, recruiting would be easier. How much would be saved from duplicate, reduntant positions? The days of 10% plus margins are over. We have been struggling with 1% for years now. Do you really think the board is that much on principles over profits?

 

[XPOO]

Please tell me your solution for staffing the aircraft when hiring does pick up at the legacies in the next year or so? You do know that with hardly anyone hiring now, both airlines are having difficulty filling new-hire classes?
The days are already here were the Regionals tell the mainline partners what they can do each month, as far as block hours, rather than the other way around? In other words, we will shrink each month when hiring resumes in earnest.

How much better would it be for staffing if you could send underutilized crews from FAT to DTW to cover an IROP? Commuting would go down, Attrition would go down, recruiting would be easier. How much would be saved from duplicate, reduntant positions? The days of 10% plus margins are over. We have been struggling with 1% for years now. Do you really think the board is that much on principles over profits?

That's just it. You don't know, and I don't know. No one on here knows. We aren't privy to the sort of information that would lead us to conclusions of what the long-term planning is. However, the management and the board at SkyWest has always been and maintains to be a step ahead of the rest of the industry. It's been seven years since ASA was purchased and brought over as a subsidiary. In that amount of time, SkyWest has maintained and flourished while others have come and gone, or in the process of going. I'm all for your beliefs in fighting for fair pay and quality of life, but we'll continue to disagree on your view of how the company should operate until I personally see proof that the current model isn't working.

 

[Jon Rivoli]

Please tell me your solution for staffing the aircraft when hiring does pick up at the legacies in the next year or so?

Hiring probably won't be as dramatic as you think. There are several years worth of pilots flying freight and by then "AGE 70" and beyond.

Quit waiting for the future, live in the now. And, have a backup plan.

 

[Jetjockey]

Back in the early 90's when AMR purchased all of the regionals to make American Eagle, it was AMR's plan to run them separately. ALPA filed a single carrier petition with the NMB to force AMR to bargain with them as a single unit. Single carrier status.

Here is the pdf from the filing. http://files.ali-aba.org/thumbs/datastorage/skoobesruoc/pdf/25JamesSingleCarrierCG055_thumb.pdf

If the pilots of all 3 carriers (SKWY,ASA,XJT) could come together under one collective voice, there would be incredible gains and leverage.