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Dear DAL

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CatYaaak

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 10, 2002
Posts
809
Dear DAL,

I recently flew you again to Europe and back, and was treated very nicely by the CRS's and Flight Attendants. My compliments to them. I routinely ride as a passenger on various European, Middle Eastern, and Pacific carriers and with few exceptions the Delta employees I come in contact with are at least on par with them. However, there is one area where Delta, I'm sorry to say, falls miserably short of it's competition on international routes.....

Please modernize and get rid of those crappy 767s flying your international routes. Frankly, they suck. Please configure your seats without assuming everyone is 5'5" tall and loves the taste of their own knees, and so you can walk around and not have to pass through a galley while on a stroll around the cabin. Get more lavs. Please come to the realization that this is the 21st century, and equip every seat with entertainment units. If you're going to serve food, please, at least make it edible.

And please please please drop fake PA folksiness, and that insipid, over-used phrase to "sit back, relax, and enjoy the flight", as if you can brainwash those stuffed into the cabin for a long haul into believing they've entered some kind of theraputic spa-in-the-sky. NObody can "sit back", let alone "relax", or "enjoy" anything in those godammed seats! We'd much rather hear "we'll get you there as quickly as possible!" even minus the "safely" description, because believe me after 5 hours aloft with 3 to go dangling your legs over the edge of a soft rubber raft or kicking them as you tread water begins to sound like a pretty good alternative to a Deep Vein Thrombosis blot clot hitting your heart later in the eveing.

I'm just telling you this because when the equipment and comfort of a carrier like, for instance, EgyptAir, is matching or exceeding yours, I thought you should know. Thank you for listening.
 
Wait, you're comparing Delta to Egypt Air? General, I think you'd better handle this.
 
If you are unhappy with the product the letter you should send is a ticket on the competition. That is the only letter any business will actually take a action on. I doubt Detla will take your advice to "get rid" of a several million dollar asset because they "suck." You have flown Delta before and to my knowledge they have not enhanced their product, so why do you continue to fly a product you clearly dont like?
A) you have no choice in the matter because your employer bought the ticket
B) you saved $20
C) you are addicted to the miles program
 
Welcome to flightinfo.com Catyaaak. Its a pleasure to have you aboard while we speed our way into a comfortable state of ennui.

Just sit back, relax and enjoy the forum.

Y'all come back now, ya hear?
 
flyingitalian said:
If you are unhappy with the product the letter you should send is a ticket on the competition. That is the only letter any business will actually take a action on. I doubt Detla will take your advice to "get rid" of a several million dollar asset because they "suck." You have flown Delta before and to my knowledge they have not enhanced their product, so why do you continue to fly a product you clearly dont like?
A) you have no choice in the matter because your employer bought the ticket
B) you saved $20
C) you are addicted to the miles program

While it's true this time my employer bought the ticket, it's not true they chose Delta either, since Delta doesn't even fly to what was my country of departure was. They chose and bought a ticket with Air France, which I flew home on. Returning to work through Europe, however, Air France flight xxxx was operated by it's code share partner, Delta, on the U.S. to Paris leg, and it's not the first time I've been stuck in one of their sh!tbox 767s this way.

Based on those experiences, however, when I do buy a ticket myself to fly overseas and the choice is mine I've always done what you're suggesting now.... I avoid Delta like the plague and never, ever choose their product. Sometimes I pay more to avoid them, and even though I have zillions of them with Delta and others, I couldn't care less about airline miles programs.

Now, if my experiences had been good with them, I'd spend my own $$ or request that my company use them if able. I'm a patriotic guy and would rather "buy American". But mine haven't been, so I won't and don't. If the future for the major airlines is indeed flying long haul routes Delta should either change their product or stick to domestic long-haul, because their international service is at best fair-to-middlin' and falling behind the competition.
 
CatYaaak,

Well, I am sorry if you had an uncomfortable ride. I don't know which "class" seating you flew in--I am guessing coach---but if you were able to upgrade to business elite--I think you would have enjoyed it very much. Those seats up front are very spacious, the food is great with a large menu of choices, and I always enjoy the service--even though the stews are OLDER than my own Grandma. But, in busy travel periods--like Spring and Summer---I am sure I would be stuck in the back or in the jumpseat for 10 hours--something I did twice last summer.

Overall, I think Delta is doing the best they can with the amount of low fares out there. They probably can't take out too many seats to add extra room due to the revenue problem. You can try a European Airline----but due to the difference between the Euro and the Dollar---the European Airline is probably more expensive. Also, many places we fly in Europe have only one form of competition--and we are their only competition on that route---Like JFK to Moscow--only Delta and Aeroflot, JFK to Istanbul---Delta and Turkish, JFK and Athens--Delta and Olympic.

Our 767ERs are nice overall. My brother flew a BA 744 from IAD to LHR and said it was the worst flight ever too---like a huge sardine can. I think coach class on most airlines flying long distances probably are uncomfortable after awhile. I bet Eygpt Air 777s from JFK to Cairo also have cramped quarters for everyone in coach- and that flight must be very very long.

If you are a regular (medallion freq flyer)--I bet you could get an upgrade--and if you want to spend more money--you could also get an upgrade. Otherwise, enjoy the lower fares and buy food prior to getting on the flight, and then buy an Ambian and sleep the whole way after you eat on climb out. You will probably wake up refreshed, but with deep vein thrombosis---(hey, you should have walked the aisles atleast once....). Thanks for flying the friendly skies.....(wrong airline....)

Bye Bye--General Lee:rolleyes: ;)
 
Yaaak,

Ill try to make it simple but if you havent gathered this much in 291 posts, im not sure ill be in any help. THIS IS A PILOT FORUM Maybe you come from the corporate world and your company gives you some sort of input on what equipment to use and how to configure the cabin. Airlines donot consult their pilots for input on these decisions. One can only assume that you donot understand this because you are ranting to a group of pilots about something over which they have no control.

I am curious as to what response you imagined you would ilicit from your post? Please enlighten us all and prove you are not an idiot.
 
Out of all of my Jumpseating experiences, Delta was far and away the best. Especially the 767-300, of course, I was almost always in Bus-elite.

I think that the Corporate pilots should tell their boss that if the airline is not good enough for them then it is not good enough for you, and fly the biz jet home. Then we won't have to have this discussion.
 
General !!!

"...stews are OLDER than my own grandma..." ? That's my WIFE you're talkin' about...so, smile when you say that, Boy !!

Jose: It'll be OK...I guess he's lucky he didn't ride for 20 minutes in coach on our -800's...then he'd have a real complaint.

Every day is an X-day....
 
Flying the Line said:
Out of all of my Jumpseating experiences, Delta was far and away the best. Especially the 767-300, of course, I was almost always in Bus-elite.

I think that the Corporate pilots should tell their boss that if the airline is not good enough for them then it is not good enough for you, and fly the biz jet home. Then we won't have to have this discussion.

Ever nonreved on Lufthansa, ANA, JAL, Singapore Air or Air Canada? Foriegn Carriers are by far better than US carriers for overseas travel. As far as Delta is concerned, it's about the same as every other US airline in tems of customer service...
 
Hose A. Jiminez said:
Yaaak,

Ill try to make it simple but if you havent gathered this much in 291 posts, im not sure ill be in any help. THIS IS A PILOT FORUM Maybe you come from the corporate world and your company gives you some sort of input on what equipment to use and how to configure the cabin. Airlines donot consult their pilots for input on these decisions. One can only assume that you donot understand this because you are ranting to a group of pilots about something over which they have no control.

I am curious as to what response you imagined you would ilicit from your post? Please enlighten us all and prove you are not an idiot.

Hose A.(sic), it's clear from your post that these decisions are obviously above your pay grade, so therefore the only response I need from you is to get off your duff, skedaddle on down to ATL HQ and pass along my thoughtful critique and recommendations to the appropriate decision-maker. If my recommendations aren't implemented post haste, then it certainly must indicate that your presentation skills have been found wanting since even AA has figured out the leg-room thing. Now get going, and make it snappy.

Hey, I'm just trying to help you guys out. Quit spending money on cutsie things like new paint jobs and Song, and become a serious airline again.
 
I nonrev. international at least once a month and too noticed the difference between US carriers and foreign ones. The main advantage of most foreign carriers is that they have a new fleet. LanChile for example has a fleet of 763 with video on every coach seat. I can't even begin explaining how cute those flight attendants are. (Do yourself a favor and fly with them once!)
Emirates and Egipt also put only the new aircraft to serve the west or wherever they have discriminating passengers... The sad thing is for example that pilots at LanChile are very ill payed. Almost unethicall for the type of equipment they fly. As for the middle eastern carriers, they just have a sh...t load of money and in this times that is hard to compete with. Since Delta or mmost US carriers can't afford to renew their fleets now, they should go for the service. Regardles of age, I do think that sometimes, service provided by our flight attendants could be a little better. Is like airlines in the US have become too relaxed in the pst few years. The LCC system is somehow affecting those routes that they are not even interested in.

...is SONG flying to Europe yet? :D
 
Sorry, the cutesy @ss US carrier bashing with respect to "comfort just doesn't hold water. You ever been on an LH 737? An AF A320? A few FACTS (something this joke of a thread often leaves out.

Total seats on selected jets.
767-300 (int) AF 210, DAL 190
A320 AF 159-172, NWA 148, UAL 138, TED 156, JBlu 156-162
737-300 AF 134, UAL 120, SWA 137

Please feel free to correct any incorrect numbers, most were "off the top of my head".
 
CatYaaak said:
pass along my thoughtful critique and recommendations to the appropriate decision-maker.

In case you have not figured it out by now, management could give a rats a$$ what us pilots think. I don't even think we are allowed to even speak to the marketing departments. We are labor and thats it. Of course if I was elected king of the world I might be able to help you.

Hugs and kisses,
CC
 
Capt. Caucasian said:
In case you have not figured it out by now, management could give a rats a$$ what us pilots think. I don't even think we are allowed to even speak to the marketing departments. We are labor and thats it. Of course if I was elected king of the world I might be able to help you.

Hugs and kisses,
CC


Bing...Bing...Bing...Bing...Bing

Folks, we have a winner!!
 
bafanguy said:

Jose: It'll be OK...I guess he's lucky he didn't ride for 20 minutes in coach on our -800's...then he'd have a real complaint.

Every day is an X-day....

Thanks for the warning bafan, I've got a 4.5 hour ride coming up in that tube, in the middle seat no less.
 
CatYaaak said:
Hose A.(sic), it's clear from your post that these decisions are obviously above your pay grade, so therefore the only response I need from you is to get off your duff, skedaddle on down to ATL HQ and pass along my thoughtful critique and recommendations to the appropriate decision-maker. If my recommendations aren't implemented post haste, then it certainly must indicate that your presentation skills have been found wanting since even AA has figured out the leg-room thing. Now get going, and make it snappy.

Hey, I'm just trying to help you guys out. Quit spending money on cutsie things like new paint jobs and Song, and become a serious airline again.


1. Correct. Captains do not get to decide what type of equipment the airline uses. I imagine however that senior guys probably are infact above the paygrade of those who do make these decisions.

2. As a customer, your constructive criticism would be better received.

3. AA removed the seats from coach to save weight for more mail carrige (weight of pax not the seats themselves). They spun the decision in advertising to look like they were concerned about the coach customers leg room.

4. Posting this complaint on this board shows that you are either ingnorant as to the way things work or are only trying to flame. Shouldnt you be preparing catering, coffee, hotel rooms, carrying bags or making sure someones wallstreet journal is on the appropriate seat opened to the proper page?

5. I do not fly for Delta
 
Hose,

You are right, most of the captains do make more than some of the people that make these decisions----and that might be because the Captains flying these widebodies have been at Delta five times longer than the average management person who comes in--makes bad choices, and leaves with stock options.

Bye Bye--General Lee:rolleyes:
 

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