Dealing with Maintenance

[Typhoon1244]

Okay, maybe it shouldn't bother me...but the more I think about it, the more irritated I get.

We brought a CRJ into DFW last night around 7pm. We had a lot of issues with the flight director (altitude selector was erratic, command bars didn't match side-to-side, speed mode didn't work, etc.). In addition, while we were taxiing in, the nosewheel steering crapped out on us twice. I know it's inconvenient for the nap crew taking the airplane out, but I felt like this was stuff that needed to be written up (particularly since the altitude selector problem was a repeat write-up)...and I hoped maintenance would try to actually fix it instead of just defer the autopilot and flight director.

So when maintenance shows up, the first mechanic we meet says--in an exasperated tone--"so I guess this is f*ck-your-buddy night, huh?"

What do y'all think? Should I (A) ignore it like usual, or (B) write this mechanic's comments up as a couple of people have recommended to me? Would any of you take issue with a remark like that?

 

[Diesel]

Just get in the plane and fix it monkey wrench boy.

I'll be inside relaxing in the crew room.

Oh and your not my buddy. Your the mechanic

 

[chperplt]

The last company I worked for had mechanics with similar attitudes. Two pilots are dead because of it.

Do your fellow pilots and the traveling public a favor and write this guy up. That attitude is not needed in this industry.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Just get in the plane and fix it monkey wrench boy. Oh and your not my buddy...

Well, I think he was referring to the next crew...whom I spoke to about these write-ups, by the way. (They seemed to agree that perhaps, at least, the nosewheel steering should be fixed!)

 

[fasteddy69]

Please refer to FAR 91.3 and 91.7.....Thank you. Now you tell me who tells who what to do. I would talk to your chief pilot and take it right up the chain of command. I babysit mechanics for a living, hopefully not for much longer, and it is like pulling teeth at some of our stations to get the mechanics to do their jobs. At other stations we have excellent mechanics that do preventive maintenance or who monitor the aircraft closely and have good communication with the pilots. This is supposed to be a team effort, but it usually turns out to be an us/them game. Have the guy fired.

 

[Borat Sagdiyev]

Thank you

Write that guy up.

I get a bit tired of other pilots not writing squawks up, but maybe that's just me. I am glad you wrote them up, and I hope you do so in the future, even if it's at an outstation before my freedom leg. In spite of a nap crew's desire to not be delayed by maintenance, you did them a huge favor. What if that nosewheel problem gets more serious? What if the AFCS malfunctions and causes a loss of separation between you and another aircraft? If a mechanical problem crops up on your watch, it's your problem until you write it in the can.

This mechanic may have been having a bad night, but let him explain that to his boss. Do you want this mechanic intimidating a weaker captain when he says he intends to write something up?

Knowing the professionalism of most of our mechanics, I'd bet his supervisors will deal with him if you write him up.

 

[Weasel Keeper]

If the mechanic was just having a bad day but he fixed the write ups then I might let it slide...or let MOC or someone know about his attitude. It'll get back to him big time. He might be a great mechanic, but just has a bad attitude (I know some like this).

If he pissed and moaned and still didn't fix them then I'd press the issue more.

Most importantly, if you have a gripe with your aircraft...write it up. You're the pilot/FO who's safety might be in question. If you ignore the gripes, they won't get fixed, or they'll fail for the next crew and then it will be on your conscience. If something you wrote up gets MEL'd then you have to deal with it...but at least you brought it to their attention. I know there are times when I'd rather have an easy night, but if the crew comes in and writes up the aircraft then we do what we can to fix it...because that's our job.

Unfortunately there are some mechanics out there who have bad attitudes and it gives those of us who actually like our jobs a bad name.

 

[tradersltd]

Write him up because he's got a bad attitude, the kind that will say screw it and send the bird right back out for the next crew. Don't tolerate it one bit! my $.02

 

[xjavro85]

I can't beleive everyone is getting down on this guy for a bad attitude. What a bunch of hypocrites...as far as getting mad over a deferred A/P, let me see what is it we are paid for..thats right flying the airplane. Back in the metro days hell they didn't even have a/p's. And in the DASH-8 the nosewheel steering was deferrable. I think we should give the mechanics a little respect. They keep the things flying just as much if not more than we do.

 

[Tim47SIP]

How Long?

Well, if the problems were there for the last four legs, then he has a point. If they all materialized on that last leg, then you have a point. Writing up problems when they occur is correct, waiting until the last leg is another thing, not that that's what happened.

 

[TonyC]

I can't beleive everyone is getting down on this guy for a bad attitude. What a bunch of hypocrites...as far as getting mad over a deferred A/P, let me see what is it we are paid for..thats right flying the airplane.

I can't believe anyone would DEFEND the mechanic's attitude.

Who got mad over a deferred A/P? He objects to the attitude displayed by the machanic - - the 6th word out of his mouth was a vulgar expletive - - defend THAT!

What are we paid for? Flying the airplane AND documenting mechanical discrepancies. Any mechanic who intimidates pilots into failing to document discrepancies that subsequently hurt people should be held criminally liable, in my opinion.

If it's broke, it gets written up. IF it's deferrable, and that's what the mechanic chooses to do, so be it. If it's not deferrable, it's gotta be fixed. Ignoring it will not make it go away. Do what you're supposed to do, and sign your certificate number to it. If you've got a problem with that arrangement, you need to find another vocation.

 

[248to2.8]

I can't beleive everyone is getting down on this guy for a bad attitude. What a bunch of hypocrites...as far as getting mad over a deferred A/P, let me see what is it we are paid for..thats right flying the airplane. Back in the metro days hell they didn't even have a/p's. And in the DASH-8 the nosewheel steering was deferrable. I think we should give the mechanics a little respect. They keep the things flying just as much if not more than we do.

No, we aren't paid to fly airplanes anymore. Now we monitor systems.

 

[Ted Striker]

What drives me nuts is not so much being delayed for maintenance, but when I get a jet that has issues and NO ONE has written them up all day. If the plane needs work, get it fixed. As far as the mechanic's attitude, I wouldn't let it go. If one of us spoke to him like that, we'd be called on the carpet. I have had a couple of times where they gave me grief for writing something up, or had comments like "well, how do you think we are supposed to fix THIS?" I really don't care how you fix it, but it needs fixed. I am not an A & P. Most of the guys are ok, but like anything a couple of bad apples can ruin it.

 

[TonyC]

What drives me nuts is not so much being delayed for maintenance, but when I get a jet that has issues and NO ONE has written them up all day. If the plane needs work, get it fixed.

My experience with maintenance has been overwhelmingly positive, but there have been a few bad incidents that stand out in my mind still.

One particular early morning during pre-flight I found a main gear strut underserviced and brought it to the attention of the mechanic warming himself in the front seat of a van parked nearby. He responded with a sad story about how difficult it would be to service the strut, how he'd have to go get some kind of specialized equipment, how long it would take, blah blah, blah, he already noticed the strut and thought it would be good to go. I told him that my book says the strut has to be serviced, so I'll go ahead and write it up and if it was good to go, he could just sign it off. In light of the fact that the very same airplane had a landing incident involving the landing gear just a few days earlier, I thought it would be prudent to document any deficiencies.

15 minutes later the strut was serviced. Amazing.


If anything, I'd prefer to err on the side of writing up any time there's a doubt. If it's good to go, and the mechanic says so, he affixes his certificate number and we're on our way. Works great, lasts long time.

 

[trip]

You all are sounding like a bunch of girls- let me rephrase that WIMPS because some mechanic was gruff with you? Tell him its in the can (written-up) and go have your coffee or latte whatever. sheese get over it.

 

[Typhoon1244]

You all are sounding like a bunch of girls...because some mechanic was gruff with you? Sheese get over it.

He wasn't gruff, he was downright rude.

And I ignored it.*

How is that girl-like?







*Although I wish I hadn't...

 

[Rook]

Just think how you'd feel if you didn't write it up and the next crew had something happen (minor or major). Then you'd feel like a tool. Screw that mechanic's attitude. He's on duty for a reason and has a responsibility to fulfill. Let him/her earn their money. If it's something that is deferrable, then you've already taken care of the matter on your part. Ink to paper isn't that big of a deal. If you feel that the guy's attitude needs adjustment then bring it up to a MX super or your CP. Be diplomatic about it of course.

Rook

 

[citdrver]

As a former airline line mechanic and regional FO, I would say that the guy was being sarcastic, as many mechanics can be. What you have is an attitude problem directed to you, just aeasily could be from a ramper, a gate agent, etc. One mechanic I worked with had a good saying: "The Book Shall Set You Free!" If you have a discrepency Write it up!! Every instance of a captain trying to be a good guy or company guy and not wanting to write something up, usually screwed more than just his buddy.

You have a maintenance issue, put it in the book. You have a personal issue, follow your company protocol. Also be advised your dealing with maintenace in a closing maintenace base, dont ask for high morale when the dude's job is going away.

As far as the negative Mechanic comments, remeber those wrench monkies etc, are most likely making more than you, work in the elements more then you, deal with rather complex problems more than you, know the airplane better than you, and you depend on them to keep you making more than gaurantee. I will say at Comair there were a few attitudes, but the vast majority were very proffesional and quite good.

 

[xjavro85]

As a former airline line mechanic and regional FO, I would say that the guy was being sarcastic, as many mechanics can be. What you have is an attitude problem directed to you, just aeasily could be from a ramper, a gate agent, etc. One mechanic I worked with had a good saying: "The Book Shall Set You Free!" If you have a discrepency Write it up!! Every instance of a captain trying to be a good guy or company guy and not wanting to write something up, usually screwed more than just his buddy.

You have a maintenance issue, put it in the book. You have a personal issue, follow your company protocol. Also be advised your dealing with maintenace in a closing maintenace base, dont ask for high morale when the dude's job is going away.

As far as the negative Mechanic comments, remeber those wrench monkies etc, are most likely making more than you, work in the elements more then you, deal with rather complex problems more than you, know the airplane better than you, and you depend on them to keep you making more than gaurantee. I will say at Comair there were a few attitudes, but the vast majority were very proffesional and quite good.

AMEN BROTHA!!!!

 

[CandlerWun]

As far as the negative Mechanic comments, remeber those wrench monkies etc, are most likely making more than you, work in the elements more then you, deal with rather complex problems more than you, know the airplane better than you, and you depend on them to keep you making more than gaurantee. I will say at Comair there were a few attitudes, but the vast majority were very proffesional and quite good.

I must say that I was rather disappointed to see so many derogatory comments directed toward mechanics in general (this specific instance notwithstanding). I think it reveals an elitist attitude, as though operating the aircraft is somehow better than keeping it in good working order. Both are skilled, demanding occupations, and both deserve respect. It is surprising that many pilots do not understand this.

Josh M.

 

[surplus1]

"Attitudes" are always difficult to deal with but they can often be avoided.

If there's a discrepancy in your aircraft you are required to report it, i.e., write it up. This should be done always and always BEFORE you consult with maintainance. If the write up is already in the "can" when you bring the problem to the attention of MX, there will never be a need to debate whether or not is should be put there.

If the item can be deferred but you think that it should not be, the wording of your write up can be tailored to ensure that it isn't. Example: "Windshield dirty" --- may result in its being cleaned or not, whereas --- "Dirt on windshield impairs vision of pilots" --- will almost certainly result in a clean windshield. Sometimes its not what you say (write) but how you say it.

If there was no "prior history" of confrontations with the particular mechanic I would probably ignore the snide remark. If there was a history of similar attitudes from the same person, I'd chat with the CP. Assuming you have a good CP, he'll take care of it appropriately. Do not get yourself involved in direct confrontations.

Example 2. Pilot Write up = "Number 4 engine paramater indications abnormal".
Mechanic response = "Number 4 engine ground chk OK, all paramaters indicate normal."

Discussion --

Pilot - "You couldn't isolate the problem"?
Mechanic - "No. There's nothing wrong with the engine, those indications on #4 are normal."
Pilot - "OK, very sorry, apparently I didn't understand the problem. It's much worse than I thought. If you give me the "can" I'll correct it."

Pilot takes can and makes the following entry. "Above discrepancy entered in error", signs. Makes new entry = "Engines 1, 2 and 3 operating paramaters all indicating abnormal compared to normal indications of engine #4". - signed.

Result. Mechanic reads new writeup and throws can on ground, walking away. Minuetes later returns with helper, opens cowl on #4, works for approx 1 hour. Closes cowl, checks all engines. Makes following entry in can.

"Corrected and adjusted operating paramaters on engine #4. All four engines now indicating the same and normal. Problem was loose cannon plug. Tightened and secured. Aircraft released for flight."

Pilot to Mechanic -- "Thanks very much for your help. I'm glad it wasn't so serious after all."

End of story.

We all run into these little problems from time to time. In most cases a prudent Captain can work them out and avoid a confrontation, without "giving in". Mechanics and pilots both have "bad days", but there is no need for either one of us without the other.

Best wishes.

 

[frjmx328]

Awwww, so sad you have to actually fly the airplane!!! Kiss my ass, If it can be MEL'd, than it will be. If I have to work the prob, than rest assured it will be worked according to the AMM. I really wish the guy who started this thread had bitched about something other than an autopilot fault.
I'll DMI your FMC, GPWS, TCAS, Auto pilot sys, your Rad alts, man or auto modes on your packs, seat or whatever it may be. I'll DMI your **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** boom jacks! Why? Because i'm paid to do a job, thats why. I'm paid to move the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** bird, and sometimes you candy asses sound plain sad to hear bitch. Will I work a legit prob? **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** right I will. Will I stand to hear a egotistical pilot bitch about his auto pilot? Nope, its gonna get an MEL every time. Hand fly that bitch you pussies and earn that pay check, sort of like when I have to change a spoileron PCU in the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** rain.

Your NWS kicked off a few times? Cycle the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** switch and get her to the gate. My ass rides on the line no different than yours. Grown up with a pilot who would not be posting on the regionals board here. He's majors folks. Miss that cable steering, go fly a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** Baron. Aside from that, do a nut check and realize that no jet is perfect. And for those who work for Indy, rest assured i'll be there to DMI your 3A pump, PCU, temp ctrl, or whatever you manage to complain about. See you at the gate pussies.

I really love pilot threads about MX with no MX input. Come get me fired you gung ho pussies. To borrow a line from ALPA, " My union speaks for me"

 

[Ted Striker]

Awwww, so sad you have to actually fly the airplane!!! Kiss my ass, If it can be MEL'd, than it will be. If I have to work the prob, than rest assured it will be worked according to the AMM. I really wish the guy who started this thread had bitched about something other than an autopilot fault.
I'll DMI your FMC, GPWS, TCAS, Auto pilot sys, your Rad alts, man or auto modes on your packs, seat or whatever it may be. I'll DMI your **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** boom jacks! Why? Because i'm paid to do a job, thats why. I'm paid to move the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** bird, and sometimes you candy asses sound plain sad to hear bitch. Will I work a legit prob? **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** right I will. Will I stand to hear a egotistical pilot bitch about his auto pilot? Nope, its gonna get an MEL every time. Hand fly that bitch you pussies and earn that pay check, sort of like when I have to change a spoileron PCU in the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** rain.

Your NWS kicked off a few times? Cycle the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** switch and get her to the gate. My ass rides on the line no different than yours. Grown up with a pilot who would not be posting on the regionals board here. He's majors folks. Miss that cable steering, go fly a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** Baron. Aside from that, do a nut check and realize that no jet is perfect. And for those who work for Indy, rest assured i'll be there to DMI your 3A pump, PCU, temp ctrl, or whatever you manage to complain about. See you at the gate pussies.

I really love pilot threads about MX with no MX input. Come get me fired you gung ho pussies. To borrow a line from ALPA, " My union speaks for me"

I think you were the guy he was talking about. You know what...with your attitude, I'd let you work on the jet for a while, get your MEL sticker gun nice and hot and then still refuse the jet if I didn't think it was sat. Period, end of story. Find me a plane I am happy with or fix this one. We can play this game all day if you'd like.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Ted is 100% correct. My arse is responsible for all the people behind the cockpit door and if I"M not satisfied, no go. Plain and simple.

 

[Typhoon1244]

...those wrench monkies...know the airplane better than you...

No, they don't. They know the airplane differently. I had one mechanic explain to me that the rudder trim problem we were having couldn't be hydraulic since the Brasilia's rudder trim was mechanical. (No, it's not.) I had another tell me that the reason the packs weren't working was that the engine bleeds were closed. (The fact that the engines weren't running didn't seem to bother him.) And I never knew a mechanic who cared a bit about APU starter limitations. Sure, they know the nuts-and-bolts a heck of a lot better than I do, but they "know the airplane better?" Hardly.

Awwww, so sad you have to actually fly the airplane!!! I really wish the guy who started this thread had bitched about something other than an autopilot fault.

You missed the point, Poindexter. I didn't give a crap about the autopilot. Heck, I could use the parcatice hand-flying!

This isn't about FMS's or deferrals. This is about mechanics who treat nine out of ten write-ups like something the pilot is doing to cause trouble. This is about mechanics who piss and moan about having to fix seatbelts that were installed upside-down. (Were they certified that way? No. Fix it.) This is about mechanics who tell you the transponder failed because you--the stupid pilot--had too many symbols displayed on the MFD. (So help me, I'm not making that up.)

This is about attitude. I can deal with a lousy one, but I shouldn't have to. It's a big pain in the ass...bigger than a deferred autopilot.

Somebody mentioned that this base is closing. That's a good point, and I've accepted a lot of crap from rampers, mechanics, and gate agents who are getting screwed come February 1st. But you know what? When it comes down to it, it's not my fault. Go yell at Grinstein.

Your NWS kicked off a few times?

Yes, every time I turned it past 45-degrees right.

Cycle the [CENSORED] switch and get her to the gate.

We did. What, you're telling me a system that's consistently failing a specific way isn't worthy of a write up? How 'bout if we sit down with the PMI and talk that one over?

 

[T-Gates]

This is about mechanics who tell you the transponder failed because you--the stupid pilot--had too many symbols displayed on the MFD. (So help me, I'm not making that up.)

LMAO! That might be the most assenine thing I've ever heard!

 

[TonyC]

Awwww, so sad you have to actually fly the airplane!!! Kiss my ...

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**

... " My union speaks for me"

Well, we can safely say that this joker would make a great poster child for the VERY problem that prompted this thread.

Furthermore, he stands as a huge embarrassment to organized labor

 

[Clyde]

If the airplane is broken/needs servicing, write it up. Safety first. If the item can be deferred, I let them make that call. I don't get paid to make those decisions, nor do I care to risk my certificate on them either.

BTW, if the mechanic is in a bad mood, smile and wish him/her a nice day and go inside and grab a soda or coffee.

 

[Hammer&Tape]

I agree with weasel keeper and trip. Wright it up get it fixed or deffer'd and suck it up with the attitude. If this is a cronic problem with the mech. write him up or even better talk to him\her.we all have bad days but are trying to do the best that we can. to the person that said to fire him, You could be a managment lap dog. Me, I am a smart a@s, some crew get offended with me untill they get to know me, I might grumble but they know I wont let anything go unsafe.Keep the peace folks we are all on this ride together.