DC10 vs MD11

[propilot]

Any one know of an easy way to tell the difference between and MD-11 and a DC 10 without getting out a tape measure and checking the length? Why do some have 2 main gear and some have 3? This came up last night on the UPS ramp as we were headed inside in the crew van...We fly a contract run for them...UPS flies all MD-11's...but FEDEX has both, so anyone have any tips?

 

[EagleRJ]

MD-11 = winglets.

Only the DC-10-10 lacks the center main gear. DC-10-30 and MD-11 have it.

 

[propilot]

I thought that as well, but a lot of the UPS birds dont have winglets...they are all 11's...

 

[be76pilot]

The MD-11 usually has winglets, whereas, the DC-10 doesn't.

 

[Loafman]

When entering the cockpit, the lack of an engineers panel will usually give it away.

 

[bigD]

Could it be that the UPS planes you're seeing without winglets are really MD-10's, or whatever they're calling the DC-10's with the glass upgrades? I don't know that I've ever seen an actual MD-11 without winglets.

Another way to tell is that the 3rd engine inlet bulges slightly on the MD-11, but doesn't on the DC-10.

 

[bigD]

Hmmm..just looked it up - UPS doesn't fly MD-10's, so hell, maybe I've just never seen an MD-11 without winglets before. Crazy friggin designers!

 

[potrack]

MD-11 has winglets. They all do.
It is also longer.

MD-10 (DC-10 re-done with glass two man cockpit)
The ones I've seen have MD-10 painted on the fuselage below the cockpit.

Yes, they have center gear but this can retracted if they want to (Not SOP).
It may be retracted for some sort of Maintenance issue.

 

[UPS Capt]

All of UPS's are MD-11's. They all have winglets as do all MD-11's. Sometimes it's just hard to see the winglets at night or at various angles.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

What about DC-10 vs MD-10

From the outside, I haven't figured out a way to tell the difference, other than the small writing under the cockpit. Any clues?

 

[Clyde]

Look at the end of the fuselage, specifically just aft of the horizontal stab, and note the shape. On the MD-11, it's shape is flattened out and resembles a screwdriver or a beaver's tail. The DC-10 is a little more rounded.

Also, look at the intake on the number two engine, just forward of the vertical fin. The opening is wider than the rest of the tube which starts where it meets the vertical fin and goes aft. The DC-10's intake is the same size from front to back. (the difference being the DC-10-40, but to the best of my knowledge, only Northwest Airlines flies them)

Winglets were already mentioned, but that is the easiest way to tell.

 

[vschip]

"From the outside, I haven't figured out a way to tell the difference, other than the small writing under the cockpit. Any clues?"

The MD-10 has a little "bump" antenna on top of the fuselage, which is the gps antenna, and its vhf antenna on the top is further aft, easy to tell when they are next to each other, kinda tough when they are alone.

 

[rumpletumbler]

The floorboards aren't buckled and the baggage doors don't come off in flight on the MD-11 I think.

 

[TonyC]

MD-11 vs DC-10 (and MD-10)

MD-11: Winglets - they all have winglets
MD-10, DC-10: none have winglets


MD-11: Main Landing gear - - Left, Right, and CENTER
MD-10-30: same
DC-10-30: same
MD-10-10: NO CENTER GEAR
DC-10-10: NO CENTER GEAR
(-20, -40 ?? I don't know)


MD-10 vs DC-10

From a long distance, it's impossible to tell.

When you get close enough, the first thing you can see is:
MD-10: UHF antenna situated above wing (same as MD-11)
UHF Antenna MD-10
DC-10: UHF antenna situated above main cargo door (of freighter version, of course), just aft of nose gear
UHF Antenna DC-10

Still closer from the right front:
MD-10: No flight engineer panel visible through right-most window
See-thru window
DC-10: Flight engineer panel blocks right-most window
Blocked Window

And from the left side:
MD-10: Outflow valve (on left side of fuselage behind main cargo door) is a single door, square, identical in appearance to MD-11
Outflow Valve (look under the "Dash" of MD-10)
Outflow Valve (look under the "X" in the FedEx logo on the fuselage)
DC-10: 3 pieces - ram shield, outflow valve, and thrust recovery valve - make up the "out flow valve compliment" (visible on the ground)
Under the "X", left to right: Ram shield, Outflow valve, Thrust recovery valve

Still closer:
MD-10: MD-10 painted under the clearview window on both sides of the nose
"MD-10" painted on both sides of nose
DC-10: nothing painted in same space
Slick nose

In general:
MD-10: found in the better domestic layovers carrying happy pilots
DC-10: found in the ratholes of the US carrying grumpy captains, lazy F/Os, and either a happy young lad or lass eager to upgrade, or an ancient aviation relic killing himself to improve the retirement he'll enjoy for only a few months beofre he keels over

(just KIDDDING, guys - - relax !)


And finally, the easiest way is to watch the guy doing the walkaround - - if he walks around the main gear clockwise, it's a MD-10. If he walks around the main gear COUNTER-clockwise, it's a DC-10.

Now that I think about it... if the second officer does the Exterior Safety Check, it's a DC-10, and you'll see him walk to the tail to look up at the #2 engine and APU Inlet/Exhaust area. If the Captain does the check, it's an MD-10, and he'll view the tail from the crew stairs.



(I think I could have turned that into a Top Ten list. )

 

[vschip]

Man, Tony, you've either got one of those 25 hour layover and can't/don't want to sleep, or you’re at home, with all the yard work done waiting for the scheduler to interrupt your sleep after you've been sleeping for about 45 minutes Seriously, great post, but doesn't the MD-10 have the gps antenna somewhere up there??

 

[TonyC]

Man, Tony, you've either got one of those 25 hour layover and can't/don't want to sleep, or you’re at home, with all the yard work done waiting for the scheduler to interrupt your sleep after you've been sleeping for about 45 minutes Seriously, great post, but doesn't the MD-10 have the gps antenna somewhere up there??

It didn't take that long, really. I've finished my day in the schoolhouse, and the kids don't have homework!

I don't know where the GPS antenna is, or what it looks like. MD-11's and MD-10's both have the GPS. It doesn't appear to me to be obvious enough to be used as a reference for differential ID.

 

[maddoggiestyle]

You can tell it's a MD10-10 on Takeoff because it's got the climb performance of a C172 when it's fully loaded!

 

[cj610]

What is the range on the DC10 vs MD11. I was talking to a Gemini guy in JFK and he was telling me that they have a MD11 that does a LAX to Frankfurt run...non-stop. Can they really do that? What would their useful load be on a trip like that?

CJ610

 

[Chronic Jetlag]

Mad Dog 11

Yes, the MD-11 or affectionately known as the Mad Dog can indeed fly non stop from LA to Frankfurt. The payload would be roughly 140,000 lbs. depending on the season, direction and route of flight. It's about 12 hours to LAX, 11 to FRA. The OEW is roughly 257,500. Max T/O is 630,500, Max landing is 491,500, Max ZFW is 461,300. Max structural payload is around 204,000. Max fuel capacity is roughly 258,000. The pax MD-11 OEW is roughly 30,000 heavier depending on configuration so obviously it's not as capable as the pure freighter. 13 hours and 58 minutes is my personal max time aloft from wheels up to touchdown in the PAX MD-11. Max cargo I've ever carried is 202,100 out of Hong Kong. Basically campared to the DC-10-30 the MD-11 burns roughly 25% less gas, carries 25% more cargo and has 25% more range. Still the 3 holer is not as politically correct to the accountants as big twins. I love the plane, great performer, even at MAX TO it has plenty of thrust; each engine putting out 61,500 lbs of thrust. The plane never was very popular due to initial range shortfalls. Singapore airlines couldn't fly from SIN to Paris non stop, Delta couldn't fly from LA to Hong Kong non stop with full pax (roughly 275-300) and luggage and belly freight. Lots of software glitches. All the problems were addressed by Douglas but the damage has been done. Singapore cancelled their order, American had requested software engineers from Honeywell to be onboard revenue flights to trouble shoot nuisance messages.

Main problem was it had the basic DC-10 wing, Douglas at the time wanted to put on a new wing but the new wing was too expensive (new wingbox...etc...etc...) so they did the next best thing. Extended the wing a bit and added winglets. Reduced the size of the horizontal stabilizer by roughly 30%, active inflight C.G. control via fuel in the tail for AFT C.G. Other monor aerodynamic improvements and modifications. Even repositioned the windshield wipers from horizontal to vertical when parked. (This is one way to tell some of the older MD-11s)

The lastest MD-11ER has extra bladder tank in the belly if so desired with all the latest aerodynamic mods (most visible being the flap fairings which protrude beyond the trailing edge of the wing with a tapered end). The older flap fairing stops right at the trailing edge of wing. I think around 1998 to 1999 is when this fairing was installed. The ER has a range of roughly 7200 NM.

 

[cj610]

Chronic Jetlag

Those are some impressive numbers. I didn't know the MD-11 was that capable of a plane. You said you took off out of VHHH w/ 202,100 lbs. How far were you able to take that load before you had to stop for fuel?

CJ610