DC10 vs MD11

[TonyC]

Man, Tony, you've either got one of those 25 hour layover and can't/don't want to sleep, or you’re at home, with all the yard work done waiting for the scheduler to interrupt your sleep after you've been sleeping for about 45 minutes Seriously, great post, but doesn't the MD-10 have the gps antenna somewhere up there??

It didn't take that long, really. I've finished my day in the schoolhouse, and the kids don't have homework!

I don't know where the GPS antenna is, or what it looks like. MD-11's and MD-10's both have the GPS. It doesn't appear to me to be obvious enough to be used as a reference for differential ID.

 

[maddoggiestyle]

You can tell it's a MD10-10 on Takeoff because it's got the climb performance of a C172 when it's fully loaded!

 

[cj610]

What is the range on the DC10 vs MD11. I was talking to a Gemini guy in JFK and he was telling me that they have a MD11 that does a LAX to Frankfurt run...non-stop. Can they really do that? What would their useful load be on a trip like that?

CJ610

 

[Chronic Jetlag]

Mad Dog 11

Yes, the MD-11 or affectionately known as the Mad Dog can indeed fly non stop from LA to Frankfurt. The payload would be roughly 140,000 lbs. depending on the season, direction and route of flight. It's about 12 hours to LAX, 11 to FRA. The OEW is roughly 257,500. Max T/O is 630,500, Max landing is 491,500, Max ZFW is 461,300. Max structural payload is around 204,000. Max fuel capacity is roughly 258,000. The pax MD-11 OEW is roughly 30,000 heavier depending on configuration so obviously it's not as capable as the pure freighter. 13 hours and 58 minutes is my personal max time aloft from wheels up to touchdown in the PAX MD-11. Max cargo I've ever carried is 202,100 out of Hong Kong. Basically campared to the DC-10-30 the MD-11 burns roughly 25% less gas, carries 25% more cargo and has 25% more range. Still the 3 holer is not as politically correct to the accountants as big twins. I love the plane, great performer, even at MAX TO it has plenty of thrust; each engine putting out 61,500 lbs of thrust. The plane never was very popular due to initial range shortfalls. Singapore airlines couldn't fly from SIN to Paris non stop, Delta couldn't fly from LA to Hong Kong non stop with full pax (roughly 275-300) and luggage and belly freight. Lots of software glitches. All the problems were addressed by Douglas but the damage has been done. Singapore cancelled their order, American had requested software engineers from Honeywell to be onboard revenue flights to trouble shoot nuisance messages.

Main problem was it had the basic DC-10 wing, Douglas at the time wanted to put on a new wing but the new wing was too expensive (new wingbox...etc...etc...) so they did the next best thing. Extended the wing a bit and added winglets. Reduced the size of the horizontal stabilizer by roughly 30%, active inflight C.G. control via fuel in the tail for AFT C.G. Other monor aerodynamic improvements and modifications. Even repositioned the windshield wipers from horizontal to vertical when parked. (This is one way to tell some of the older MD-11s)

The lastest MD-11ER has extra bladder tank in the belly if so desired with all the latest aerodynamic mods (most visible being the flap fairings which protrude beyond the trailing edge of the wing with a tapered end). The older flap fairing stops right at the trailing edge of wing. I think around 1998 to 1999 is when this fairing was installed. The ER has a range of roughly 7200 NM.

 

[cj610]

Chronic Jetlag

Those are some impressive numbers. I didn't know the MD-11 was that capable of a plane. You said you took off out of VHHH w/ 202,100 lbs. How far were you able to take that load before you had to stop for fuel?

CJ610

 

[Chronic Jetlag]

If I can remember correctly we took off at max gross of 630500, the ZWF was about 460000 and had roughly 170000 of fuel. At that weight I think the burn was around 18000/hour. Made it to Anchorage in about 8.5 hours with a tail wind ( can't remember the exact numbers). Got off the plane and a new crew took it to New York. What I remember most about that flight was we pushed back just below max ramp weight and we had waited for the gauges to read 630500 when we stood the throttle up; what a kick in the pants. I have done this only twice. The other time was in Seattle headed for Asia with a plane load of people. Didn't have the same max payload but the tanks were topped off to the gills and we needed every pound to make our destination. Our V clean speed on climb out was around 280 KTS. We needed every foot of that pavement and even had to use the head wind correction advantage in the RAM for the take off. I remember when the mains lifted off the runway I looked out the side window and all the runway lights were red and we're barely over the threathhold. That was my record flight of 13 hours and 58 minutes aloft. Wasn't a lot of fun, hence my call sign chronic jetlag. I've got a "two four butt" and that trip kicked my a**."