DC-9 Pay?

[PropsR4Boats]

Does anyone have a pilot pay scale for the DC-9 back in the 70's?

 

[JP4user]

Does anyone have a pilot pay scale for the DC-9 back in the 70's?

Look at NWA's current pay scale.

 

[PropsR4Boats]

That’s actually what I was thinking…is that realistic?

 

[AAflyer]

Still looking for you, but i just found this, I think you will find it interesting.

AA

A closer look at our compensation levels in the pre-deregulated airline industry will illustrate what I mean. When I checked out as a Boeing 737 first officer in 1978, I grossed over $70,000 a year. As I recall, Boeing 737 captains were pulling down around $100,000 a year and those exalted Boeing 747 captains were making in the neighborhood of $175,000. We used to facetiously ask the question, "Why did Boeing put such a huge hump on the top of the 747?" The not-so-facetious answer was, "So the captain can sit on his wallet."

Now, you may say that those pay rates are about what modern-day airline pilots were making before the last round of pay cuts. However, you have to convert that 1978 pay to today's dollars. To do that, we need to apply the increase in the Consumer Price Index (CPI).

The CPI is a measure of the average change in prices over time in a market basket of goods and services. For example, the beer I bought in 1978 for $1.00 (and as I recall, I bought more than a few) costs me $2.82 now (Thankfully, I'm not drinking as much beer as I used to.). Table 1 below shows the 1978 paychecks for each position and the related size of those paychecks in today's dollars.

TABLE 1: 2003 $ value of 1978 Pay
Year

FO B737 CA B737 Cap B747
1978 $70,000 $100,000 $174,000

2003 $197,400 $282,00 $493,500

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Still looking for you, but i just found this, I think you will find it interesting.

AA

A closer look at our compensation levels in the pre-deregulated airline industry will illustrate what I mean. When I checked out as a Boeing 737 first officer in 1978, I grossed over $70,000 a year. As I recall, Boeing 737 captains were pulling down around $100,000 a year and those exalted Boeing 747 captains were making in the neighborhood of $175,000. We used to facetiously ask the question, "Why did Boeing put such a huge hump on the top of the 747?" The not-so-facetious answer was, "So the captain can sit on his wallet."

Now, you may say that those pay rates are about what modern-day airline pilots were making before the last round of pay cuts. However, you have to convert that 1978 pay to today's dollars. To do that, we need to apply the increase in the Consumer Price Index (CPI).

The CPI is a measure of the average change in prices over time in a market basket of goods and services. For example, the beer I bought in 1978 for $1.00 (and as I recall, I bought more than a few) costs me $2.82 now (Thankfully, I'm not drinking as much beer as I used to.). Table 1 below shows the 1978 paychecks for each position and the related size of those paychecks in today's dollars.

TABLE 1: 2003 $ value of 1978 Pay
Year

FO B737 CA B737 Cap B747
1978 $70,000 $100,000 $174,000

2003 $197,400 $282,00 $493,500

That is depressing

 

[Whine Lover]

1990 NWA 12 Year 747 Captain... Approx. $185,000/annually

2006 NWA 12 Year 747 Captain... Approx. $141,000/annually

Only a $44,000 decrease you say?

Well, "you do the math" concerning COL / Inflation / Buying Power.

It ain't a "linear" type thing...


YKW

P.S.- Compare the upward progression of Airline Management Salaries over the same period...And while you're at it, Plumbers, Lawyers, Brick Layers, Janitors, CPA's, and Minimum Wage Workers.

No one...NO ONE, is a collectively more "Dumb-Ass" group than those involved in our so-called "Proud Profession".

 

[JP4user]

AA thanks for that post. It should be mandatory reading for the Unions to get out of this mode of subsidizing the cost of doing business in 2006.

Problem is the leadership of ALPA isn't suffering like their members are so they don't care.

 

[AAflyer]

AA thanks for that post. It should be mandatory reading for the Unions to get out of this mode of subsidizing the cost of doing business in 2006.

Problem is the leadership of ALPA isn't suffering like their members are so they don't care.

JP.

No problem, here is a link to the rest of the article..

Regards,

AA

http://www.landings.com/_landings/stories/captainicarus.html

 

[JP4user]

JP.

No problem, here is a link to the rest of the article..

Regards,

AA

http://www.landings.com/_landings/stories/captainicarus.html

Thanks again.

 

[LARRY H. JUNIOR]

AA thanks for that post. It should be mandatory reading for the Unions to get out of this mode of subsidizing the cost of doing business in 2006.

Problem is the leadership of ALPA isn't suffering like their members are so they don't care.

STFD: IF YOU CAN"T DO BUSINESS< SHUT THE PLACE DOWN.

NO CONCESSIONS

 

[DTW320]

1990 NWA 12 Year 747 Captain... Approx. $185,000/annually

2006 NWA 12 Year 747 Captain... Approx. $141,000/annually

Only a $44,000 decrease you say?

Well, "you do the math" concerning COL / Inflation / Buying Power.

It ain't a "linear" type thing...


YKW

P.S.- Compare the upward progression of Airline Management Salaries over the same period...And while you're at it, Plumbers, Lawyers, Brick Layers, Janitors, CPA's, and Minimum Wage Workers.

No one...NO ONE, is a collectively more "Dumb-Ass" group than those involved in our so-called "Proud Profession".

Not disputing your overall point but your figures are a bit off for 2006 NWA 747CA pay.

The new rate, including International Override (there is no domestic 747 flying), is $173.27/hour for the 747-200 and $181.86 for the 747-400.

80 hours/month = approx. $166,000/year for the -200 and $175,000/year for the -400.

 

[pilotyip]

This is still a great career, too many negative vibes. The good ole days are never coming back; they were an abrogation of unique times. BTW USA Jet DC-9 Capt pay $174/hr.

 

[FCPhotography]

What does a 12 year Southwest CA make? Not including profit sharing.

(vs. NWA 747)


I heard but don't want to believe it.

 

[PCL_128]

What does a 12 year Southwest CA make? Not including profit sharing.

(vs. NWA 747)


I heard but don't want to believe it.

12 yr SWA CA - $190/hr

Many Captains at SWA top well above $200k/yr to fly a 737.

 

[Whine Lover]

DTW320,

I just used the straight pay rate of 168.00/hr for the -200 and your guarantee of 68 hours/mo adjusted to 70 hrs. because you have a "flex" month system...approx. $141,000 per year annual guarantee/salary.

I couldn't remember if the -400 was even around in 1990 (?) so I just used the -200 to keep apples to apples.

You are correct, I did not include overrides or the fact that line values are probably more than 68-70 hours on average.

However, the sad fact remains:

If you flew a 747-200 for NWA in the early nineties you were making a lot more money ( all things considered) than you would be today.

And, it's not just NWA that's hosed here...we all are.

SAD.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doh! Just answered my own question:

"Boeing delivered the first 747-400 in 1989 to Northwest Airlines."

 

[chris69]

According to the SWAPA NP for May 2006, using the averages:
Work Days: 13.53
Duty Day length: 8.68 hrs
Block hrs per day: 6.15
Block hrs per hard line: 83.21
TFP/work day: 7.3
TFP/duty hr: .84
TFP/block hr: 1.19
Block hrs/duty day: .707

Monthly avg pay for May using TFP x TFP/block hr x Block hrs

5 yr FO @ $100.28 x 1.19 = $119.33 x 83.21 = $9,929.71
12 yr CPT @ $167.02 x 1.19 = $198.75 x 83.21 = $16,538.30

 

[PropsR4Boats]

OLD vs. NEW

This is something I put together and the reason I wanted to know the past rates. Enjoy. Thanks for the input everyone!

A comparison…

The old (first) regional jet vs. the new daring of the fleet regional jet

The Douglas Aircraft Company (now Boeing) DC-9 (series 30) and the Embraer E-190, in a side by side comparison.
____________________DC-9______________E-190
First year of operation:__1967______________2006
Basic operating weight:_56,855 lb._________61,906 lb.
Max takeoff weight:___110,000 lb.________105,358 lb.
Max Fuel Load:________24,650 lb._________28,377 lb.
Max Payload:__________30,145 lb._________28,043 lb.
Engine Thrust:_________15,000 lb._________18,500 lb.
Length:________________119 ft._____________119 ft
Passengers:_____________100_______________100
Approximant current salaries.
(Northwest DC9 “NEW SCALES” / JetBlue E190)

Captain___DC-9_______E-190
Max:____$124,000____$89,000
10 yr.:__$122,000____$85,000
5 yr.:___$117,000____$77,000
First Officer
Max:_____$84,000____$53,000
10 yr.:____$82,000___$51,000
5 yr.:_____$73,000____$46,000
2 yr.:_____$57,000____$40,000

Past Pay: ???

 

[iaflyer]

This is still a great career, too many negative vibes. The good ole days are never coming back; they were an abrogation of unique times. BTW USA Jet DC-9 Capt pay $174/hr.

Yeah, the rate is high, but the guarantee is low - it used to be 40 hours - what's it now? Of course, when you broke guarantee, the dollars rolled in...

 

[pilotyip]

45 hours

45 hours, the hourly rate is used a biat to get pilots to sell their days off. It must work; a few pilots got checks of over $20K for a months work last fall. Not bad for being gone from home an average of 6 days per month.

 

[Sunnfun]

Yeah, the rate is high, but the guarantee is low - it used to be 40 hours - what's it now? Of course, when you broke guarantee, the dollars rolled in...

Plus there's only like two -9 captains who actually make that hourly rate out of about 90 pilots at USA Jet. And the few golden boys who do "pull in 20K a month" do that by selling almost ALL of their days off and have no life. One captain spent all of last years christmas/new years at the fairfield in LRD in order to get as many days sold as possible.

So, you either are gone a few days a month OR you draw a fat check about three months out of a year. You can't have both. Especially not as an F/O, and you will be an F/O on the -9 for a VERY long time.

 

[pipejockey]

So is there no one here who worked back in the 70s at a major? If you could please dig out your old contracts we would appreciate it. I would truly like to see the way things were. I love nostalgia! Or at least does anyone know where one could find the terms of some old contracts on the net?

 

[pilot141]

Surely someone here has heard the old stick by which to measure our current compensation, right?

In the "good old days" a Captain could buy a new Cadillac every month.

Of course that meant Captain on the biggest, baddest equipment you had so we're talking 707, DC-8 and then DC-10, L-1011 and 747 Captain types. I'd say this aphorism was true from the early 60s until the late 80s at least.

What it means now is that a Captain on a 747/777 should be making about $40,000/month to be in line with what airline captains used to make.

The Delta guys were close with their last big contract but had still lost ground; now everything is just an embarassment.


Edit: this rule of thumb matches up with AAFlyer's numbers.

 

[Uppercrust]

Surely someone here has heard the old stick by which to measure our current compensation, right?

In the "good old days" a Captain could buy a new Cadillac every month.

Of course that meant Captain on the biggest, baddest equipment you had so we're talking 707, DC-8 and then DC-10, L-1011 and 747 Captain types. I'd say this aphorism was true from the early 60s until the late 80s at least.

What it means now is that a Captain on a 747/777 should be making about $40,000/month to be in line with what airline captains used to make.

The Delta guys were close with their last big contract but had still lost ground; now everything is just an embarassment.


Edit: this rule of thumb matches up with AAFlyer's numbers.

Yeah, can't think of one company today that is equivalent to the old days.

 

[pipejockey]

Even earning HALF as much as pilots in days past would be great!! I guess a 50% pay cut wasn't enough for these despicable airlines.