David Neeleman is NOW my hero!!!!

[radarlove]

Alternative energy will happen as soon as it becomes cheaper per btu/watt/therm than oil. Not before.

Hasn't anyone around here taken an economics class? Do you really think government subsidies will work on a grand scale (as in energy for every American?) who pays all the subsidies once the plants aren't novelties any more?

Neeleman may make a quick buck byjumping on governmernt largess, but there is no earth-changing going on.

When natural gas became cheaper then whale oil, people changed. When electricity became cheaper than gas, then people swiched. When coal-derived oil becomes cheaper than oil from the ground, people will switch.

 

[filejw]

Just a bit history for everybody. The Germans did this lots in WW2..

 

[LearLove]

Just a bit history for everybody. The Germans did this lots in WW2..

Maybe thats why my thermo professor was Dr. Von Schultzhoster

 

[atafan]

True. This is not new technology and not a cheap process. This process is ready to be put in process today.

All the naysayers are missing one HUGE point.

It is in our Nation's best interest to be energy independent as soon as possible. We are in a war footing and will be for a long time, we don't have time to wait for the the perfect alternative, that will not come in our lifetime. We might be fighting with the very countries that are supplying our fuel.

99% of the defeatest in our country, you know the ones, the ones that blame everything on The government, haven't written one letter to the Congress or the Senate. Many don't even vote. I hope you won't miss airconditioning, TV or hot water in a few years.

 

[AA717driver]

With the idiots we have in DC now, I'm not sure anything will ever come of it,

They're not all idiots. I'd say 99% of them are self-serving (totally, without regard to ANYONE but themselves) scum who would sell their mom and their kids for another term.

Rik717 was right. I'd imagine the lobbyists/lawyers on K Street are spinning up the propaganda maching to reduce the number of coal convesion plants as we speak.TC

 

[BN2A]

While I want the government OUT of private business as much as possible, David makes a strong case for why that money is a good investment and will raise our security significantly. If the government ever has to pay a dime..its becauc se opedropped oil prices below 38$ a barrel, something they would only do if they see a threat of lost sales.

Oil prices are set by the market, not OPEC(they can control supply, the other side of the coin)...I do, however, like the plan.

 

[lowecur]

Here's a note from a Congressman on where we are now, and where we need to be on a proposed bill. It pretty much follows David's proposal to the letter. Interesting that the Ohio Plant in discussion only costs $4B, will do close to 90,000 bbls per day and be built is 4 years. Sounds like they will use this cost structure to get the project going and then time and cost overuns will probably kick in. By that time the bill should be in place.

imp:

http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/071906/ss_boucher.html

 

[HalinTexas]

This process is not new and far from rocket science. I remember seeing the basic science behind this stuff in Thermodynamics One my sophmore year. Yeah the basic math/science looks good but senior year I took a class in internal engine combustion design. We spent alot of time looking at the byprouducts of the combustion process. The coal to oil process leaves more bad stuff behind than any other process out there (ones being used today and ones only on paper) - Just with that in mind plus what the other guy said about congress in big oil pockets it will never happen. Now somewhere like China where there are no environmental laws maybe yes. Looks like Neelman got sold by a snake oil salesman.

He beat me to it, but it's not the oil companies getting in the way. It's the environmentalists. They don't want this refinery in their back yard, even though much of their EPA concerns can be addressed. It's also similar to having wind turbines in your back yard. For $60-90K you can have a 5-10 kw turbine in your yard, virtually taking your house off the grid, but try to get it passed your HOA and your local government zoning! And let's not forget the birds that might wonder into the turbine rotation plane. Poor birds.

Texas is trying to fast-track about 10 coal-fired power plants across the state, but your favorite enviro-thought police are objecting. No one is implying that EPA concerns be bypassed, but that doesn't stop their objections. I think we should go nuclear as well, but that's also like a fart under the sheets with the Mrs.

The technology for energy production and refinement changes frequently. Not as quickly as computer tech, but it's changing all the time. It makes deep earth oil drilling, oil sands (Canada) and oil shale (Rockies), nuclear, coal, and natural gas options more viable as long as oil trades above $50/bbl.

 

[jetstream]

I'm all for alternative fules and reducing our dependency on foregin oil but I'm not so sure this is the answer. Has anyone flown over West Virginia lately and looked and the effects of strip mining coal. Not pretty. Besides we will still be burning a fossil fuel and putting all those greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. I think there is a better answer out there i.e. ethanol, hydrogen, etc. Heck, their is even technology to make fuel from cow and pig dung.

 

[atafan]

I think there is a better answer out there i.e. ethanol, hydrogen, etc. Heck, their is even technology to make fuel from cow and pig dung.

I think a we have to work with what can be put to use NOW. There isn't just one solution either. Ethanol is my choice for gasoline driven cars, E85 is clean and proven. The coal process is for jet fuel and diesel. We can see a huge difference in just a few short years and be almost independent in less than 10 years. In the meantime we should work on other forms of alternate energy but the key is starting TODAY.

If we started this changing over process the cost for crude would drop but we would have to stick to our guns and continue getting off our addiction to imported crude.

My hope is that crude would become so cheap and demand so low that those sand people would have to start shutting down drilling rigs, can you say screw you?