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Dam oshkosh

siucavflight

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Flying today in the Northern Illinois Southern Wisconsin area and listening to the people trying to pick up flight following from RFD and MKE was hillarious.

I am absolutely convinced that most of the people who fly into OSH for this show think that they are really good pilots. When in reality the really good pilots know better than to try and fly into central Wisconsin during the end of July and early August. These people are amatures and while funny to laugh at on the radio are really a flying hazard.

P.S. Just cause you fly a T-6 does not mean that you should be automatically granted an overhead pattern.
 

ISaidRightTurns

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Its not just VFR PPs though. I can't tell you how often I clear people for a visual approach after they call the field in sight and they won't cancel. I work several uncontrolled fields where my frequencies won't work on the ground, so after they read back the 'cleared visual approach' part; I tell them my frequency won't work on the ground, they may cancel now or call FSS on the ground. They have no clue. I would guess 70% of pilots are clueless.
 

sky37d

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siucavflight said:
I am absolutely convinced that most of the people who fly into OSH for this show think that they are really good pilots. When in reality the really good pilots know better than to try and fly into central Wisconsin during the end of July and early August. .
Have you ever flown into OSH during Airventure??
Joining a 15 mile long conga line, with land on the green dot, is a challenge. The controllers there do an excellent job. However, one year, I was IFR out of there, and the told me to come onto the runway, get rolling, but not to much because we're waiting for the plane that just landed to get off the runway. There wasn't much runway left when he finally told me to hit it and go.
Also, you do your best landings, because about 10,000 people are watching your landing.
 

siucavflight

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sky37d said:
Have you ever flown into OSH during Airventure??
Joining a 15 mile long conga line, with land on the green dot, is a challenge. The controllers there do an excellent job. However, one year, I was IFR out of there, and the told me to come onto the runway, get rolling, but not to much because we're waiting for the plane that just landed to get off the runway. There wasn't much runway left when he finally told me to hit it and go.
Also, you do your best landings, because about 10,000 people are watching your landing.
That is what I am talking about. Right now with everyone going to airventure.
 

FN FAL

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What's really funny is how many of them fly over the DZ without so much as a hello.

One of these years we're going to see a collision between a skydiver and an EAA'r and it's not going to be pretty.
 

RightPedal

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tt r2
siucavflight said:
Flying today in the Northern Illinois Southern Wisconsin area and listening to the people trying to pick up flight following from RFD and MKE was hillarious.

I am absolutely convinced that most of the people who fly into OSH for this show think that they are really good pilots. When in reality the really good pilots know better than to try and fly into central Wisconsin during the end of July and early August. These people are amatures and while funny to laugh at on the radio are really a flying hazard.

P.S. Just cause you fly a T-6 does not mean that you should be automatically granted an overhead pattern.
Yeah, they aught to shoot them all down, all those private pilots that weren't born with 2000 hours and all the FAA ratings. The Military needs an attitude adjustment also. To think a 20 year old child can attempt to pilot a 50 million dollar fighter jet with what 200 hours. :p

Pride and Ego is the destroyer of men.
 
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User546

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What are the statistics for accidents / incidents due to the large volume of traffic arriving and departing OshKosh every year? Do they happen frequently, or is the safety record pretty good?
 

sky37d

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User997 said:
What are the statistics for accidents / incidents due to the large volume of traffic arriving and departing OshKosh every year? Do they happen frequently, or is the safety record pretty good?
As I recall, the record is pretty good, however, about 4 years ago, we were just getting off the highway, (we drove that year), and someone got too slow, stalled, 1/2 from the runway. Fatal.
I think that overall, it has a better safety record than sn-n-fn, but that is purely speculation.
 

siucavflight

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I dont know about a good safety record. Every year on they have a few incidents, and accidents. Go to ntsb.gov and type in oshkosh, you will get 26 pages worth of results, then look at the dates.
 

sky37d

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siucavflight said:
I dont know about a good safety record. Every year on they have a few incidents, and accidents. Go to ntsb.gov and type in oshkosh, you will get 26 pages worth of results, then look at the dates.
I did that, and put in OSHKOSH, and Wisconsin, and between now an 2000, got 2 pages. 3 fatals in 2001, including the one I saw.
One of the fatal was in April, not connected with the show.

I did the same search for Lakeland, got 3 pages, 8 fatals, same time period.
 
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suen1843

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ISaidRightTurns said:
Its not just VFR PPs though. I can't tell you how often I clear people for a visual approach after they call the field in sight and they won't cancel. I work several uncontrolled fields where my frequencies won't work on the ground, so after they read back the 'cleared visual approach' part; I tell them my frequency won't work on the ground, they may cancel now or call FSS on the ground. They have no clue. I would guess 70% of pilots are clueless.
You must be a little "clueless" yourself. Most FAA issued opsspecs under Part 135 do not allow for cancelling IFR unless the crew is in direct contact with...well, let me quote the following from a typical opspec C77:

"Uncontrolled airports: The flightcrew is in direct communciation with an air/ground communications facility or agent of the certificate holder that provides airport traffic advisories and information that is pertinent to conditions on and around the landing surface during the terminal phase of flight; and the flight is operated within 10 nautical miles of the destination airport, or visual reference with the landing surface is established and can be maintained throughout the approach and landing."

If some sort of incident should occur, I don't think the resulting investigation would indicate that just because the pilot was communicating with the teenage lineboy hired last week meant they were in direct comm with someone who could safely provide the required information.

There are also considerations for minimum altitudes to be flown which may allow the pilot to maintain required visual contact with the airport or a preceeding aircraft but not required separation from clouds (ie...one may only be 200 ft below the ceiling until initiating final descent).

Also, cancelling IFR early eliminates all SAR protections built into the system. A lot of company ops procedures do not allow for cancelling until landing.

Lastly, our tax dollars pay for the IFR system and a lot of us fully intend to use it to our benefit...not yours.
 

siucavflight

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sky37d said:
I did that, and put in OSHKOSH, and Wisconsin, and between now an 2000, got 2 pages. 3 fatals in 2001, including the one I saw.
One of the fatal was in April, not connected with the show.

I did the same search for Lakeland, got 3 pages, 8 fatals, same time period.
I think that I would stay away from lakeland also, it is just that I do most of my flying in northern Illinois so when OSH is going on I get a real good idea on these peoples piloting skills.

Like I said the people who go to OSH during airventure think that they are real good pilots. The pilots who are good enough to fly into OSH during airventure stay far away from that place.
 
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I saw a fatal crash on the grounds at Oshkosh, small airplane lost it, and the next thing I saw was a big black cloud.
 

IfIHadABoat

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hhhmmm
This time of year

There was rumor of a fatal in an RV on 9-27 on Saturday. Never heard if it was more with than a rumor.

123.45 is hillarious this time of year.

Also, left downwind arrivals on 18 on Saturday with a good tailwind made for some interesting overshoots of final. It's always nice to see a cessna cross controlled over a camping area at 100 feet.


Boat
 

ISaidRightTurns

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Yes, I must be clueless. I am, of course, not referring to 121 or 135 ops. We are talking singles here. Gramps flying around without a clue.

From now on I will full dissolve and dilute my posts as to eliminate any confussion.
 

sky37d

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IfIHadABoat said:
There was rumor of a fatal in an RV on 9-27 on Saturday. Never heard if it was more with than a rumor.

Boat
Not fatal.
there were 2
Regis#: 619BS Make/Model: EXP Description: EXP-
Date: 07/24/2005 Time: 1704

Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Substantial

LOCATION
City: OSHKOSH State: WI Country: US

DESCRIPTION
ACFT MADE A HARD LANDING ON ITS RIGHT SIDE, OSHKOSH, WI

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

WEATHER: 1653Z 25011G15KT 10SM CLR 33/23 A2979

Here was the RV

Regis#: 9PT Make/Model: RV6 Description: RV-6
Date: 07/24/2005 Time: 0036

Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: Minor Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor

LOCATION
City: OSHKOSH State: WI Country: US

DESCRIPTION
ACFT ON LANDING, LANDED SHORT AND FLIPPED OVER, OSHKOSH, WI

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 1 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

WEATHER: 0053Z 18010KT 10SM CLR 23/20 A2997


Looks like the RV was lucky. Probably got slow in the conga line.
 

sky37d

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A P-51 crashed during the airshow yesterday.

RIP, and condolences to the family.
 

labbats

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suen1843 said:
You must be a little "clueless" yourself. Most FAA issued opsspecs under Part 135 do not allow for cancelling IFR unless the crew is in direct contact with...well, let me quote the following from a typical opspec C77:

"Uncontrolled airports: The flightcrew is in direct communciation with an air/ground communications facility or agent of the certificate holder that provides airport traffic advisories and information that is pertinent to conditions on and around the landing surface during the terminal phase of flight; and the flight is operated within 10 nautical miles of the destination airport, or visual reference with the landing surface is established and can be maintained throughout the approach and landing."

If some sort of incident should occur, I don't think the resulting investigation would indicate that just because the pilot was communicating with the teenage lineboy hired last week meant they were in direct comm with someone who could safely provide the required information.

There are also considerations for minimum altitudes to be flown which may allow the pilot to maintain required visual contact with the airport or a preceeding aircraft but not required separation from clouds (ie...one may only be 200 ft below the ceiling until initiating final descent).

Also, cancelling IFR early eliminates all SAR protections built into the system. A lot of company ops procedures do not allow for cancelling until landing.

Lastly, our tax dollars pay for the IFR system and a lot of us fully intend to use it to our benefit...not yours.
Hey Glasshouses, hang on to that stone a minute...

We're talking about Oshkosh, you're talking about part 135. It also takes a real jerk not to cancel IFR on a clear day into the busiest GA airport in America. Finally, those controllers are awarded that spot. It's a coveted thing, and not something they dole out to lineboys.
 
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